Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: freesoul on February 13, 2018, 05:39:50 pm
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hi,
we have this 1694 Italian gold antique bracelet
(http://softhulk.com/gold_antique/001.jpg)
(http://softhulk.com/gold_antique/002.jpg)
its registered antique with full paper & documents.
Q1: please let me know about the average price
Q2: any advice/help to find a serious buyer are welcome.
regards,
thank you.
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Lot of question for you:
What is the weight of the piece?
Size? Dimensions? Length?
What Karat Gold? 10, 14, 18, etc ?
Where are you located? Markets vary by location
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Lot of question for you:
What is the weight of the piece?
Size? Dimensions? Length?
What Karat Gold? 10, 14, 18, etc ?
Where are you located? Markets vary by location
24k gold & 45g of weight
and i am currently located in Egypt.
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Can we see the papers you have ??
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Can we see the papers you have ??
sorry, that is not a thing that i would post/send.
it is a registered antique under the name of my family
i have legal rights to travel with it through airport.
i can sell in uk/usa/france and anywhere else.
i have the full rights to sell it
just please let me know about the average price of today's market.
regards,
thank you.
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Just the scrap weight us is $1923.30 USD $42.74 a gram today.
Not counting any of its Antique or historic value
Since Senatore Veneto is Italian, Italy would probably be your best market
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Hi, may I ask on which base this is dated to 1694?
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Can we see the papers you have ??
sorry, that is not a thing that i would post/send.
it is a registered antique under the name of my family
i have legal rights to travel with it through airport.
i can sell in uk/usa/france and anywhere else.
i have the full rights to sell it
just please let me know about the average price of today's market.
regards,
thank you.
Papers and documents are frequently faked and mean virtually nothing !! We have the same problem here !! Someone must have signed the documentation,, have you checked that person !! Often it will be an auction house that doesn`t exist on more than a website !! That is why we asked to see the papers !! Also,,have you taken this item to have it double checked with a jeweler ??
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Seriously doubt it’s that old. The depiction of the Lion Of St Mark, the chromolitho like pictures, the text / font used...all wrong for the 17th century.
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Yes, I agree with Ipcress on that, that is why I asked on what the date is based...
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Seriously doubt it’s that old. The depiction of the Lion Of St Mark, the chromolitho like pictures, the text / font used...all wrong for the 17th century.
well, that's a very good thing that you don't believe your eyes ^_^ ... that only means higher value !!
that bracelet is a gift from francesco morosini to our grandmother before 300+ years ago.
we own it since that time, it is registered antique at my ministry of antiquities in egypt.
any ideas about the value are welcome, thanks
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Seriously doubt it’s that old. The depiction of the Lion Of St Mark, the chromolitho like pictures, the text / font used...all wrong for the 17th century.
well, that's a very good thing that you don't believe your eyes ^_^ ... that only means higher value !!
that bracelet is a gift from francesco morosini to our grandmother before 300+ years ago.
we own it since that time, it is registered antique at my ministry of antiquities in egypt.
any ideas about the value are welcome, thanks
Francesco Morosini (26 February 1619 – 16 January 1694) was the Doge of Venice from 1688 to 1694, at the height of the Great Turkish War. He was a member of a famous noble Venetian family (the Morosini family) which produced several Doges and generals. He "dressed always in red from top to toe and never went into action without his cat beside him on the poop.
Senatore Veneto translates to Senator of Venice. With that being said, in 1694, Francesco Morosini would have been titled Doge or even possibly Duke but not Senator. What I find odd, is that you did not mention the history of the bracelet previously as this would be a unique selling point.
And, if you are aware of the history then you would know about events after his death is 1694. After his death in 1694, a large marble arch was placed in his honor at the Doge's Palace, while his cat —of which Morosini was notably fond— was embalmed and taken to the Museo Correr. If I had papers indicating this was an antique bracelet, then I would contact the museum in Venice. His stuffed cat may be found in the Museum Correr. Why would you post the bracelet in an antique forum?
Would you please send us better pictures of the bracelet and provide the "antique documentation" with your family name covered up? Without this information, we have no idea what you really have. If you cannot do this, we cannot help you. Thank you.
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Can you provide a picture of the clasp please? Quite often looking at the clasp is an easy way to date jewelry.
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At best since it can not be authenticated, value would be same as scrap value if it is indeed gold with little added !!
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Dang, what's goin on over here? weird thread!
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I think it's obvious that this piece requires a "hands on" look by someone familiar with "early gold jewelry". Have you contacted a knowledgeable auction company?
I have no idea if the following auction house could help you.
http://cairoauctionhouse.com/14-jewellery-watches (http://cairoauctionhouse.com/14-jewellery-watches)
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hat bracelet is a gift from francesco morosini to our grandmother before 300+ years ago.
we own it since that time, it is registered antique at my ministry of antiquities in egypt.
Well lets see, 300 years ago and your grandmother ?? That would make you at least 150 years old or more !!
At least let us see the registry papers !! You can cover the name as was said above !!
Why would Egypt be concerned with an Italian antiquity ?? Simple,, it isn`t !! The Ministry of Antiquities only has authority if the antiques in question are from Egypt or related to Egypt !! They could care less about something made in Italy !!
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English is clearly not the poster's first language, so misusing "grandmother" doesn't bother me as much as misstating the mission of the Ministry of Antiquities in Egypt, which is exactly as Mart stated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_State_of_Antiquities
They don't care about something made in Italy. They've got their hands full with Egyptian stuff.
This post looks like a "price fishing" expedition for an object of questionable authenticity.
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This post looks like a "price fishing" expedition for an object of questionable authenticity.
Yep, I'd say that's probably correct. Was hanging around hoping OP would engage a bit more but the old woman ran him off! :o
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This post looks like a "price fishing" expedition for an object of questionable authenticity.
Was hanging around hoping OP would engage a bit more but the old woman ran him off! :o
Which old woman are you referring to Jacon?
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This post looks like a "price fishing" expedition for an object of questionable authenticity.
Yep, I'd say that's probably correct. Was hanging around hoping OP would engage a bit more but the old woman ran him off! :o
LOL !! Well evidently I ran you off as well !! Must be getting good at it !! Where have you been lately ??
Yes this is a fishing post,, but we didn`t bite !! Same problem here,, I go fishing but they don`t bite !!
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The thing that gets me is I am old and my grandmother lived to 100. Hmmmm longevity in this family?!?
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Which old woman are you referring to Jacon?
LOL, the one sitting on her stump! aka Mart!
Where have i been? I been around, not much furniture to post on though, more or less junk on both forums.
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Ahhhh,, the forum is back to normal !!
My Grandmother was 102 when she died !! At that rate just think how long I can irritate Jacon4 !!
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English is clearly not the poster's first language, so misusing "grandmother" doesn't bother me as much as misstating the mission of the Ministry of Antiquities in Egypt, which is exactly as Mart stated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_State_of_Antiquities
They don't care about something made in Italy. They've got their hands full with Egyptian stuff.
This post looks like a "price fishing" expedition for an object of questionable authenticity.
yes, English is not my first language
The Ministry of State of Antiquities is the Egyptian government organization which serves to protect and preserve the heritage and ancient history of Egypt... also it give you the ability to register any foreign antiques that you own !!
anyway, i didn't try to sell it online here on that forum guys !!..
i only asked for some help & some information !!
also please don't keep asking about documents, because i will not post any paper public on the forum !!
so just i will be very grateful if anybody can give me more information about the evaluation !!
thank you!
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In that case I suggest you hire an appraiser !! We can not document its authenticity without seeing the papers on it !! We can not even certify that it is gold without proper papers on it !! We could care less about your family,,we have enough problems with ours !! Just because it may be that old,, that does not translate into value !! Value is what someone is willing to pay for an item !! Not sure anyone would want this one and most do not have finances enough to buy something that can not be used !!
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TOTALLY off thread but someone got banned on other forum and NO ONE will tell me what happened! I don't know why but every time there is drama like this i am MIA, it's a CONSPIRACY! i say! Any one here know what happened on other forum?
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Was it King of Things? No idea.
I stopped posting there because of rudeness from a couple of regulars (NOT King of Things, who seems like a jovial sort). One of them seems to have stopped posting. Anyway, the vast majority are good folks, but you know what they say about a couple of bad apples.
This is supposed to be fun, so when people start acting like ****s, I'm out.
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Yes, it was king of things, totally weird why everything is so secret. Isn't sure if he was banned or just removed profile but SOMETHING happened! I miss things like this because i fall into not posting or reading because nothing of interest for me, same as here.
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Yeah, so weird, especially for someone who was such a core member and whose posts seem to have mostly consisted of puns and jokes.
I guess if you're not there all the time, then you'll miss the "interesting" things.
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Was it King of Things? No idea.
I stopped posting there because of rudeness from a couple of regulars (NOT King of Things, who seems like a jovial sort). One of them seems to have stopped posting. Anyway, the vast majority are good folks, but you know what they say about a couple of bad apples.
This is supposed to be fun, so when people start acting like ****s, I'm out.
Same reason I stopped going there !! Not only rude but gave totally wrong information !! There is no discussion there,, its they are right and you are wrong,,period !!
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I comment on things there from time to time because over there more items show up that are in my area of interest, but I cannot say that I like the general atmosphere. A few times I was close to leaving that other forum.
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I comment on things there from time to time because over there more items show up that are in my area of interest, but I cannot say that I like the general atmosphere. A few times I was close to leaving that other forum.
Try the Kovels forum,, then I will not have to hunt you up !! Lord knows they need help !! So far,, I am the only one there !! Friedrich pops in ocassionally for German porcelain !! Those that ask questions do seem appreciative !!
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Yeah, so weird, especially for someone who was such a core member and whose posts seem to have mostly consisted of puns and jokes.
I guess if you're not there all the time, then you'll miss the "interesting" things.
Well, you know, there is only so much depression era furniture that can hold my interest before i tend to drift off, ditto here. My collecting area is SO SMALL that you almost never see it except when i post about it.
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A few times I was close to leaving that other forum.
Dang! what happened Mat?
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Dang! what happened Mat?
Nothing extraordinary, it is just that people tend to forget to say thank you once they get their info, and other "big" members sometimes just ignore the info I post. I don't like the attitude of some people over there...
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Dang! what happened Mat?
Nothing extraordinary, it is just that people tend to forget to say thank you once they get their info, and other "big" members sometimes just ignore the info I post. I don't like the attitude of some people over there...
Right? In my last post or two there were a couple of people - one of whom is a "big" core member with thousands of posts - that were rude enough that I just let things die, never to return. And what Mart said is true as well. Even before all this I was getting wrong information and misidentifications to the point that I was ready to hang it up anyway. It seems that Brad and Jacon were the only ones on the furniture forum with alot of knowledge; in fact, Brad's even-keel, adult approach is the only thing that kept me there at all. And yes, lots of ignoring went on as well.
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Hmmmmmm, a tude problem huh, well that's to bad. King just seemed to hang around and kibitz from what i know, harmless type joking, nothing real serious.
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Now, I am feeling totally left out....King of Things? What forum?
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LOL, You've been MISSING OUT! All the cool kids are there! Basically a group of ebay refugees from ebay antique forums that formed this site a couple years ago.
https://www.antiquers.com/
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I stumbled in there several months ago after the old woman was whining about traffic being down to this site & figured that a bit of research was in order. But alas, NO ONE collects what i collect there either so after a bit of posting there, i settled into the same pattern as here. Very few posts unless something i think is special coming up for sale or like now, trying to figure out what the drama is all about. :(
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Thanks for the summary Jacon!
Now what makes your socks go up and down?
What exactly do you collect and/or buy?
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Well, the Bird chest is my fav at the moment. Boston Ca 1690-1710 Riven Oak & Pine. One of aprox 20 known to exist, most in museums, only one with it's paint still intact, at the Brooklyn Museum
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Wow! That's something else....one of 20 - good for you:)
Have you been collecting furniture a long time now?
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Yeah, has, a loooooooooooong time. Early american furniture, EARLY! not the 1930s! The above chest of drawers was built by a joiner, not a cabinetmaker. Joiners built furniture for centuries, usually from riven oak and kept their dominate position in furniture until the 18th century when cabinetmakers took over. The above chest is a joined chest of drawers, with a nod to the coming age of cabinetmakers with the single dovetail on the side hung drawers.
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OK, someone explained to me what happened to Kingofthings
He got banned for 6 months (till August 19th) for something he said that somebody took the wrong way - more than once.
He claims to be shocked, dismayed, and incredibly sad that he's been banned. He's a sweet guy with a somewhat odd sense of humor, but he's basically harmless, and right now, he's lost his favorite connection to other people.
Either way, I think it's a shame for King to have lost something that he enjoyed so much, but I guess the fact of the matter is that you always have to think before you post. There are just too many people out there who may take the most innocently intended comment the wrong way.
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Isn`t he the sweet guy that did all the welcomes on the new members forum ??
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I think so, not sure though.
My impression of king is, probably retired, lots of time on his hands and used that forum as entertainment and to joke around with folks there he knew, basically harmless. I invited him here while he serves out his banishment over there!
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He certainly is a nice person, I hope he will come over here.
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Seconded!
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Yeah, agrees. Joking around CAN get over the line but i never noticed king did that, not sure exactly what happened though. Hopefully he will stop by here & give up the gory details!
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Yes,, I liked him !! I think he is more knowlegable than they think !!
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Ok, we could use a King in this forum....roll out the red carpet and bring it on!
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Whatta hoot!!!!!!!!!!!
Now talk about being “a day late and a dollar short”, …… I don’t have a clue what that “other” forum is, …… or where it is, ……. or who the person is who has the audacity to think he/she is “King of things”. And the “tone” of your all’s whispering-like commentary infers it is a super-secret forum whereby membership is by “invitation only”. :o 8) :D :D :D
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Oh No Cogar,, its back on the 2nd or third page !! www.antiquers.com !! Its the one I joined for a short while while things were slow here !! Sure did not stay long either !! That should tell you what the forum was like !!
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Oh No Cogar,, its back on the 2nd or third page !! www.antiquers.com !! Its the one I joined for a short while while things were slow here !! Sure did not stay long either !! That should tell you what the forum was like !!
Mart, I checked all 4 pages of posts and couldn't find that url "link" except in Reply #54 that you just posted.
Maybe I'm going blind ..... or ...... maybe being "blocked" from seeing/reading some postings? :o :o
Or maybe all of that "King of Things" thingy occurred in a completely different thread and/or topic?
The 1st mention of another forum that I found (in this thread) was Reply #26 by Jacon4 and #27 by ghopper1924, to wit:
Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 07:32:48 AM
TOTALLY off thread but someone got banned on other forum and NO ONE will tell me what happened! I don't know why but every time there is drama like this i am MIA, it's a CONSPIRACY! i say! Any one here know what happened on other forum?
Reply #27 on: February 20, 2018, 07:57:51 AM »
Was it King of Things? No idea.
I stopped posting there because of rudeness from a couple of regulars (NOT King of Things, who seems like a jovial sort). One of them seems to have stopped posting. Anyway, the vast majority are good folks, but you know what they say about a couple of bad apples.
Or, when Jacon4 references "another forum", ...... is he actually referring to "another thread/topic"?
I'm so confused, ......... old age, poor eye sight and CRS .... ya know. ::) ::)
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Oh No Cogar,, its back on the 2nd or third page !! www.antiquers.com !! Its the one I joined for a short while while things were slow here !! Sure did not stay long either !! That should tell you what the forum was like !!
Mart, I checked all 4 pages of posts and couldn't find that url "link" except in Reply #54 that you just posted.
Maybe I'm going blind ..... or ...... maybe being "blocked" from seeing/reading some postings? :o :o
Or maybe all of that "King of Things" thingy occurred in a completely different thread and/or topic?
The 1st mention of another forum that I found (in this thread) was Reply #26 by Jacon4 and #27 by ghopper1924, to wit:
Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 07:32:48 AM
TOTALLY off thread but someone got banned on other forum and NO ONE will tell me what happened! I don't know why but every time there is drama like this i am MIA, it's a CONSPIRACY! i say! Any one here know what happened on other forum?
Reply #27 on: February 20, 2018, 07:57:51 AM »
Was it King of Things? No idea.
I stopped posting there because of rudeness from a couple of regulars (NOT King of Things, who seems like a jovial sort). One of them seems to have stopped posting. Anyway, the vast majority are good folks, but you know what they say about a couple of bad apples.
Or, when Jacon4 references "another forum", ...... is he actually referring to "another thread/topic"?
I'm so confused, ......... old age, poor eye sight and CRS .... ya know. ::) ::)
Hello Cogar,
Start with page 3, comment #38 and #39....the secret society is listed there! You want in?
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Hello Cogar,
Start with page 3, comment #38 and #39....the secret society is listed there! You want in?
Well "DUH", good thing I pre-posted my excuse that ......
I'm so confused, ......... old age, poor eye sight and CRS .... ya know.
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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I just call it brain fog !! I get that regularly,, and there is no cure !! Well,, there is but the side effect is not on my agenda,, for now !!
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Cogar,
It's ok! Sometimes, I go to the basement and forget what I went down to get. If someone is here, I bring up anything I can think of ha! Cover those bases :)
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Y'all are on a roll here! LOL I dropped in to the other forum a few times and was treated well. Just could never get my verification email from the site so that I could have further use of the forum and they didn't respond to requests for assistance in the matter! :(
All forums have up and down times!
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Agrees, yeah i remember that you had issues getting verified.
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Yep jacon4, never been verified to this day! Nuts! No moderator ever replied back either! (you know how moderators are! LOL)
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LOL, You are just NOT BONAFIDE!
Seriously, there are puter (software) issues over there as well and the software over there is modern, unlike here where the forum program is rather antique but, they have an entire forum category for puter issues and it is used almost EVERYDAY by folks who are having issues. So what does this tell us?
It tells us that antique people, no matter how good or up to date their computer systems are, DO NOT HAVE A CLUE HOW TO OPERATE THEIR OWN SYSTEMS AND ARE MORE OR LESS COMPUTER ILLITERATES!
There, all better now!
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Let’s not generalize - Computer Teacher <— here !
PeLady
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UHHHH OHHHHH! sorry, do you operate the forum puter system here?
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LOL Jason,
Ed Elser (dontbe) is the website admin/owner. Just some of us antiques people do have computer skills.
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OHHH, OK, yeah, I rest my case! I was talking about the people operating these forum sites, not people in general.
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Jacon4,, I don`t think you can dig yourself out of this one !! ;D
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Maybe this monster excavator will help Jacon4! LOLOL
(https://www.legendaryfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/monster-machine-p-amp-h-4100c-boss-might-be-the-largest-mechanical-excavator-ever.jpg)
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Possibly, but probably not!
Open mouth, put foot in!!!
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By-the-way Jacon4, a member did post a link for me to look at the computer issues and when I pressed on the link it showed up the following note! I cannot post pics, etc until I get the email verification. Oh well....
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Well, apparently you are not the only one with this issue! davey, one of the moderators posted this recently & he claims it's not the site.
The forum software automatically sends the request for email confirmation when a new member registers. And if that member ask that another request for confirmation be sent to them because they didn't get the 1st one, then the software automatically sends you another one. Point is - the emails are sent !
But here's the issue - if you didn't get the 1st one, you're not going to get any others either. And this applies to everyone who has this problem.
What happens is this. The emails are being sent to you, but they are simply not getting to you. Why ? There are several possible reasons.
1 - the emails may be in your SPAM folder.
2 - your email provider may be blocking emails from Antiquers because they think the emails are SPAM.
3 - the email program (software) that you use may be blocking emails from Antiquers because that program thinks the emails are SPAM.
4 - you may inadvertently be the reason yourself because of the settings you are using on your email program.
5 - it may be the anti-virus or security software you are using, and or the settings you chose when you set that program up.
Any and all of these may be the reason the emails do not get to you. And not a single one of them have anything to do with Antiquers, nor can the Antiquers staff do anything to correct the problem because quite simply - we do not have any control over any of that.
The only person who can fix the problem is you, the member, the person who is having the problem. And if the problem is being caused by reason #2 or #3 even you can't fix it because you don't have any control over those. But you can fix the problem if any of the other 3 are the cause. And no, I can't help you figure it out - only you have ability to figure it out because only you have access to all the settings you have to check to be able to figure it out.
But what you can do is this - you can choose to use Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo - they all work. Members who use them do not have problems getting emails from Antiquers.
And if you don't like having more than 1 email address to check every day well that's pretty easy to manage too. Just have emails sent to your new email address forwarded to the email address you like to use. Then all your emails end up in one place.
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KC, You are just NOT BONAFIDE!
So, according to some, what we got here is a bunch of old women, on old equipment, with old forum software who are to old to COMMUNICATE in the modern world!
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You are probably right,,but we don`t have problems either !!
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NOT BONAFIED! i say!
That was a really good movie, Oh Brother Where Art Thou
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NOT BONAFIED! i say!
That was a really good movie, Oh Brother Where Art Thou
We're in a tight spot!
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We're in a tight spot!
LOL, Yeah they were! Very well done movie, great old timey music too. Very entertaining, unlike most movies today.
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KC, You are just NOT BONAFIDE!
So, according to some, what we got here is a bunch of old women, on old equipment, with old forum software who are to old to COMMUNICATE in the modern world!
Hmppfffff! I am half way intelligent enough to check all of those items. And nope...not the problem. And yes have gmail! Even made a new email with another server and same results! Even had my brainiac son who is a computer/cloud whiz (and makes enough $$$$$$ to support us all) and he said it isn't on my part! (Nice to have braniacs in the family!)
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Well, it seems to me that we have a classic case of, he said/she said so, it's obvious that somebody ain't BONAFIDE!
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LOLOL
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Actually, i suspect it's security related that weeds out bots and the like. Have you talked to any russians lately? do you know any russians? have you clicked on any russian clickbait social media bots recently? what kind of dressing do you put on your salad? russian?
If you answered YES to any of the above, you might be considered a bot and, of course, NOT BONAFIDE!
Or could be compatibility issue, recently the tower on my desktop started to die so i ordered a new one and, i ordered a new brother laser printer to go with it even though my old brother laser printer worked just fine, why? because i knew from past experience that there were going to be driver issues with a new tower and the new tower would probably not recognize my old printer. It's a scam yeah but why spend 2 days trying to integrate an old printer? Just give em the money for a new printer and move on!
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It's a scam yeah but why spend …….
I was pondering that a couple months ago and decided that iffen one purchases a new PC now days, ….. that are not actually buying themselves a Personal Computer for their use, ……. they are actually buying a remote electronic “advertising platform” that is extremely valuable to Advertising Agencies and retailers of goods and services because said “platform” keeps track (cookies) of the users “internet” activities, ..... thus permitting "direct marketing" of goods and services. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cogar,
Yes that is true....same way with some of the new televisions!
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Actually, i suspect it's security related that weeds out bots and the like. Have you talked to any russians lately? do you know any russians? have you clicked on any russian clickbait social media bots recently? what kind of dressing do you put on your salad? russian?
If you answered YES to any of the above, you might be considered a bot and, of course, NOT BONAFIDE!
jacon4, I had to laugh out loud on that one! I don't know as you have been around long enough to know that I actually have 4 children - 3 are adopted - and 2 are siblings from Siberia Russia! For Real! LOLOL But no...no connections with Russia lately! Prefer French Vinaigrette! :)
I suspect it is with their system as well! I don't have any problems with any other site!
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Yeah, just messing around, they don't have that support board there for nothing!
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What in the heck is a bot ?? They have invaded the Kovels forum,,,whatever they are !! I have not clicked on any of them to see !!
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bot = robot, in the computer world it's a program that performs a task
OHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! the BOTS ARE INVADING MARTHA'S WORLD!!!
Most bots are harmless, like tracking where you go on the net and using that info by advertisers to sell you stuff.
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What's the difference between a "cookie" and a "bot"?
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Definition of: bot - Computer Definition. (1) See robot and chatbot. (2) (roBOT) A search engine program that indexes the Web. See spider. (3) (roBOT) A program on the Internet that performs a repetitive function such as posting a message on blogs, newsgroups and social networks or searching for information.
Definition of: cookie. A small text file (up to 4KB) created by a website that is stored in the user's computer either temporarily for that session only or permanently on the hard disk (persistent cookie). Cookies provide a way for the website to recognize you and keep track of your preferences.
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Figured it was selling or generating business for some sites since that is what the titles are trying to get you to do !! Go here,, buy this,, ect !!
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Figured it was selling or generating business for some sites
Yep, that's exactly what some bots do, will take over the site if allowed. Thing is, this site & the other one, antiquers has a program to exclude bots like that & i think it's the reason KC for instance is having trouble registering, program thinks she's a bot of some sort!
Dunno about Kovels, or if they have a security feature that excludes robots or not.