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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: jacqueline on September 13, 2012, 12:14:43 pm
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Hi everyone new to the forum. looking for info on a large bronze i bought in a charity shop. i thinK the statue is The Three Graces ?. its very heavy. the plinth is about 3 inches high. its hollow in the tree trunk part it seems to have a metal rod enbeded in some kind of crumberly white resin. on the bottom of the plinth at the back it reads Emile Andre Boisseau 1879. i did google the name looking for a picture of original but only managed to find a copy and that was in gold guilding not plain bronze like mine. i would like any info, and im curious about the metal rod and resin ? in side. whats that all about.
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OK What you are looking at on the bottom is the material used to fill it in !! Probably a plaster of some type !! It would be weighted to balance out the bronze on top and make it more stable !! Some would think that all bronzes are solid but they are not !! Wouldn`t have wasted the metal by filling in something that would not be seen !! Now to find your artist !!
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What does the inscription on the bottom read?
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What is the height and weight of the piece...can you weigh it on kitchen scales,or bathroom scales, the likelihood of this being a solid piece,will be rare, with it having a hollow tree trunk is an indication that this has been cast,using the lost wax method of casting...and whilst the colour looks like bronze...it could be spelter...or poor mans bronze as it is sometimes known...
the filling of the trunk and the metal rod...is an indication of some minor damage and the resin has been poured in and the rod added to give it strength...we will know more once we have the weight
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See link to one for sale,in the Netherlands...and comparewhere yours is signed with this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Bronze-statue-by-Emile-Andre-Boisseau-1842-1923-Defence-of-the-Home-/110942854524?pt=Art_Sculpture&hash=item19d4b59d7c
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you are thinking this is a reproduction ?? Don`t think so !! The artist may have made several and as you know they have different finishes !! there are several others that he did as multiples !!
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Found this. . .
http://www.lskauctioncentre.co.uk/sale-categories/twentieth-century-design/tcd140912/188.aspx
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Mart, if you look at the close up of their legs....men & womens legs...you know,...on the right, there is a grey area similar in colour to the underside of the base....now, i don,t know if this is a copy or the genuine article..i hope it the real deal, but, this mark...if this was genuine..would,nt be there.....
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I didn`t find anywhere these were ever cast in white metal !! Only thing this artist worked in that I found was marble and bronze !! Would like to know if the foundry mark is also on it !! would be same place as the name on this I think just other side !!
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Hi. i would first like to thank everybody who has commented on the bronze im realy chuffed. Thank you. i have weighed it. it 15.6 gk. height is. 15.5 inches. the base is 10 inches long. The base in the pictures looks round. but it isnt its more oblong. i do not see any foundry marks i only see the name on the base. i should have sent a picture of the back as you can see the tree trunk it only comes up to the middle laddies legs. this is the ony bit with the metal wire and some kind of crumbling plaser/resin? all the rest is solid. the pictures somebody posted is the one i have seen. but as you see this has gold guilding on has the artist name as well as the foundrey mark and this is a copy. mine does not have this mark only the name. But why cant i find a picture of the original bronze in a museum. i find this odd One again Thank you for helping me. ps. also i cant find any bronzes that have a thick 3 inch plinth like this one. they all seem to be marble bases. ? pssent a pic of the tree trunk. this is the only part that has metal rods and the crumbling filling.
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You have said that this weighs in at 15.6kg..almost 33lb..at this weight this is,nt hollow..this is a solid lump of metal...and if its bronze...which there is now every indication that it is, i suggest you get it valued...because you never know...if Renoir can turn up at a flea market in the US...then who,s to say that a genuine Emile Andre Boisseau, has,nt turned up in the UK....now hurry there, and then back to here...and put us out of our misery...good luck :)
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Hi bigwull. if i was so lucky. lol. wouldent it have a foundrey mark on it ? if it was real. i find it frustrating that i cant see an original of this bronze anywhere on the net. only the copy in gold guild. and who do i take it to so they can have a look.
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if you live close,, take it to a good art gallery !! its worth a look !! his marble pieces sell pretty high the bronzes,, much lower but take a few dollars where you can !! just don`t sell it at the gallery if they make you an offer !! if they offer money you can be sure its worth quite a bit more !!
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if you live close,, take it to a good art gallery !! its worth a look !! his marble pieces sell pretty high the bronzes,, much lower but take a few dollars where you can !! just don`t sell it at the gallery if they make you an offer !! if they offer money you can be sure its worth quite a bit more !!
$$$...aint any good over here apart from changing them at a bureau de change...
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Jacqueline, is that all it says around the base ?? Just the artists name ?? Need to know every word !!
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I have some French bronze pieces that do not have foundry marks on them either...and they are worth a bit!
Where are you from that you use the term "chuffed"? Had to look it up! :)
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oz? nz?
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I vote to go get a hands on inspection!!! I really like it!
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Hello again. chuffed means very happy. im a yorkshire lass and live in halifax. west yorkshire. england. Mart i am so daft yes i missed the paris bit. it Reads EMILE ANDRE BOISSEAU PARIS 1879. i have taken close up pics for you.
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I vote to go get a hands on inspection!!! I really like it!
Its the original Halifax not the other one....so if you,are wanting a hands on...you,d better pack your bags....and as the song goes..."i,m leaving on a Jet plane" :D
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Hi bigwull. yes Halifax england. not australia. The weight i told you was wrong. i set my scales wrong. iv weighed it again in the light. lol. it weighs 14lb. 7oz. i am going to take it along to an auction house near me tomorrow to have it looked at. i will post and let you all know. i will not get my hopes up. by the way i paid £40.00 sterling for it. iv just noticed the other copy that iv seen with the guilding on. the bases are different. still frustrated that i cant find any info on this chappie. only auction house sales.
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Hi Jacqueline,
at 7kg,this now makes me believe that it is hollow,but being hollow does not diminish its value..this type of casting is the norm...and at £40...you got yourself a really good bargain...either way....it has a nice patina,...when you take it along to your local auctioneers,may i suggest you go here
Caldervalley Auctioneers..they specialize in Antiques & fine Art...you can find them here
Fairlea Mill
Ellenholme Road, Luddenden Foot, Halifax
01422 886 648
good luck
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I have some French bronze pieces that do not have foundry marks on them either...and they are worth a bit!
Where are you from that you use the term "chuffed"? Had to look it up! :)
...Yes KC..its a very commonly used word in the UK....e.g. chuffed to bits..or "well chuffed".another is "over the moon",and up here in Scotland..."i feel like doing cat ma,s doon the road.".....i,ll let you ponder on that saying.... ;D
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Hi bigwill. guess where iv just been. By ek your good i was going to go miles away to harrowgate. i phoned them up he said bring it down. its only down the road from me. as soon as he saw it and held it. he said its definatley a solid bronze. he looked it over. looked at the name and date he said to be of the period matching the date. i told him all the info iv done and found on the net. he got all his books out. said with him being an auctioneer he could get more info than me. he had a look and came back with the only copy that i could find of the guilded bronze with the different base. i then told him it was the same as i had found that the base and guilding was not my bronze. his face looked puzzled as he kept examinig it. i asked him why couldent i find one like mine ?. he couldent answer me and whent on the net again. he said he would put it in his sale for. £150-200 pound. and gave me the option of having somebody else look it over. i thanked him for looking at it for me and said i would think about it. now im woundering what to do next. my heads in over drive
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The real questions are....Do you like it and want to keep it? OR Did you buy it for resale?
I would get a second opinion if possible!!!!
Jacqueline, I like the word chuff. Being southern and living in Texas it doesn't sound as exotic/authentic as with a "across the pond" accent! LOL I try some of the sayings out with my kids that bigwull exposes us to and they believe I have lost my marbles! Which is most likely true...but it is fun!
As for the last one in your paragraph bigwull....NEVER HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE. And with your previous posts...were you meaning a cat and mouse or cat and moose? LOL
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KC, the definition of a catma...well, you,ll never find it on the net,as it does,nt exist as a written word.but what it means to me is,...when i was child growing up in Dundee in the fifties...we made our own games..and we had sayings that were said when you were happy or you had some good fortune...and "doing catma,s doon the road means,..to run forward then lower the top half of your body,then tuck yer bonce in and do a forward roll, and keep repeating until you either run out of road or end up hitting something because when you were rolling..you can,t watch where you were going.... ;D
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Hi bigwill. guess where iv just been. By ek your good i was going to go miles away to harrowgate. i phoned them up he said bring it down. its only down the road from me. as soon as he saw it and held it. he said its definatley a solid bronze. he looked it over. looked at the name and date he said to be of the period matching the date. i told him all the info iv done and found on the net. he got all his books out. said with him being an auctioneer he could get more info than me. he had a look and came back with the only copy that i could find of the guilded bronze with the different base. i then told him it was the same as i had found that the base and guilding was not my bronze. his face looked puzzled as he kept examinig it. i asked him why couldent i find one like mine ?. he couldent answer me and whent on the net again. he said he would put it in his sale for. £150-200 pound. and gave me the option of having somebody else look it over. i thanked him for looking at it for me and said i would think about it. now im woundering what to do next. my heads in over drive
maybe the reason he, or you, or us, can,t find one like yours...is because there is,nt one....you,ve got it,,,
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There is of course another possibility,...that yours was gilded, but the gilding has been removed....or it was to be gilded but...was,nt...what you should try and find out,is the height of the gilded one including the marble base..then compare it to yours,and if yours is smaller by the mere fact that it does,nt have a marble plinth...then it is reasonably safe to assume,that yours is the same as the gilded one...now to value...like KC says...do you like it enough to keep it...the early indications are....its sale is not going to give you enough to.make you ..tell your boss....your leaving...only 6 numbers can make you do that...or did you buy it with the thought of oo er...ba gum! i can make a shilling or two off this...
me personally, i,d keep it...then long after you,d popped yer clogs...your grandchildrens children could relate the story of how there great great granny Jackie...found this in a charity shop....and by that time..it,ll have grown arms & legs, and the odd tentacle....and be worth a fortune.... :D :D
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If possible,, get that second opinion !! Then if both are in the same ballpark you can figure that is about its estimated price !! From what i saw of his other bronzes,, sounds about right !! Course at auction,, could go higher or lower !! Then you have to figure the auctions commission !! so check the figures !! you might offer it yourself and come out better or try ebay !! fees are way less than auction !!
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Hello. you do make me laugh reading your thoughts on english phasers and sayings. mine at the moment is. do one. Or. jog on. This i would use if i dint like or whant to talk to that person. or who i think is an idiot. i am 44 years old and talk with a broad yorkshire accent and still say a lot of old sayings. some of the younger genaration i work with find it hard to understand what the ek im ona about. if i go 20 mile away from where i live i will hear a different accent there are so many. in county duram. a nice girl would be a. canni lass. i could go on and on some of them are very funny. my dads scotch and i stuggle to understand him best of time. by when hes had a few to manny whiskeys you no chance. he talks a load of dribble. do a goole search on yorshire slang words it will make you giggle. and then you have people from londen. they have the most bonkers phases of all. you need to read them. keep you amuzed for a while. answering your questions about the bronze. yes i did see it in the charity shop as selling it on. but i took it home and stood it on a table next to my oppen fire with a large lamp hovering over it. it looked amazing. the more i looked at it. the more reluctant i was. then i did all my searches on the net and to my frustration still cant find the original. my partner knows his antiques as he used to have a shop. he collects clarice cliff. and knows nawt about bronzes. but hes always told me if you ever find owt do a search and if you dont find out then think about how hard it is to buy that item. if theres nothink on the net than its summat special. and rare. if you do find your item then its 10 a penny. and this is why im like a dog with a bone. becouse i cant find it. the only one i did was stated as AFTER. as was guilded with a different base. i wont settle till i find a bronze expert. when an auction house dealer isnt sure. then surley alarm bells start ringing ?. so now im trying to find that pearson. if it was only valued like the chappi said £150-200. then i would rather keep it becouse all the searching iv done on this artist and his work on the net hasent come up trumps. then i know i will have to pay a bit more.
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My only advice is to take your time, and do enough research to feel confident with what you have before you offer it up for sale.
I was always intent on turning merchandise for a profit as quickly as possible, and let many good things pass through my hands. (I shan't bore you again with the tale of my own $684,000 mistake, other than to say once again: Take your time!)
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We have a sayin up here in Scotland...thems wa come fae Newcastle...are jist Scotsman wi there heids kicked in...and them that come fae a bit further sooth like Yorkshire....well there something different a the gither....and if yer wantin tae gae oot fur a bevvy...then sty away fae thon Tetley pish...yer better drinkin the wee Dumps...or Barley wine as its called doon there,...but if ye gang up tae the hills,an dales aroond..Skipton way...then ye,d better tak a dictionary wi ya,cause ye,ll never unnerstan wit there sayin.....and I know what i,m talking about,as i used to go to Giggleswick every year...as a good friend of mine...used to live there...me and my mate Ian would get a bus to Leeds, then from Leeds to Keighley and get off at Giggleswick....and the first time we went down...we got the right bus...and it stopped at Skipton for a 10/15min break....just enough time for a cup of stewed tea and a bacon butty....when we came out of the cafe...the bloody bus was gone LOL!...with our bags and the rest of our money...we ran to the Police station....and told the Bobby that was there ,what had happened...and asked him, could he jump in his Panda car and go after the bus...
He looked at us,as if we had twa heids each...and said...A Panda car?...nae Panda,s here lad...i,ve only got me pushbike....
we eventually got to Giggleswick and phoned the bus company...and we got our bags back when the bus came by the next day.....those were the days....my friend....we thought they,d never end! :D :D
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My only advice is to take your time, and do enough research to feel confident with what you have before you offer it up for sale.
I was always intent on turning merchandise for a profit as quickly as possible, and let many good things pass through my hands. (I shan't bore you again with the tale of my own $684,000 mistake, other than to say once again: Take your time!)
What do you mean,bore us again....we,re new here and we,ve never heard the story...I love hearing Boring stories,.....especially ones...where i know i,m going to fall off my seat at the end.....Sorry Rauville.....its a part of human nature..... ;D ;D
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The reason you are not finding an "original" could be that there isn`t one !! Even though he probably did work on the first one all the rest were simply copies with little difference between them !! Mythological figures seem to be what he did most !! The three graces have been done by more artists and sculptors than you can count !! This is simply his rendition of the original sculpture !! Things like this were usually done in a series of pieces !! If you notice some of his works also have brass plaques which I think are later runs that he may have contracted to a foundry rather than doing them himself !! It is possible that this was done in the first series since it lacks the plaque but if it didn`t sell well,, he would move on to other types since items like this were one source of income !! Sometimes it helps to think in terms of a business !!
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Well said (typed) Mart!
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my one finger typing is getting better !!
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OK, I need to hear about this $684K mistake.
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That,ll teach you Rauville........now repeat after me..."bigwull says" .."I must keep my big gob shut".......
we,re waiting with eager anticipation....if you don,t want tell all again...then a "pm"...will do.... ;D
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And I'm still sitting here gobsmacked that I was able to read ALL of that but kept getting tripped up on Giggleswick. Dear god I couldn't live there and tell anyone with a straight face.
Jacqueline, getting that expert opinion (reputable expert that is) is your next step. We often see copies and copies of copies, but when you come across a near duplicate of the one, but no more........that's when you want to take the time to find out exactly what it is you have. You've got to keep us posted on your 'journey'!!
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That,ll teach you Rauville........now repeat after me..."bigwull says" .."I must keep my big gob shut".......
we,re waiting with eager anticipation....if you don,t want tell all again...then a "pm"...will do.... ;D
Rather than confuse this topic, I just cut and pasted that tale in the "Special Threads..." section.
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Had to bump this up after reading your update !! A metalcasting forum is not one that would have any idea about an art piece !! Take your piece to a gallery or at least someone that knows what it is !!