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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: blommers on October 31, 2013, 02:19:40 pm

Title: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: blommers on October 31, 2013, 02:19:40 pm
I recently inherited this painting from my grandmother and plan on selling I am just wondering what could I expect from it at auction? I am 100% sure its real as my grandmother attended art school in Boston and was an avid antique collector, I also have not been able to find any copies online its been in my family for 50+ so I guess this could be expected?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: blommers on October 31, 2013, 02:21:08 pm
pic2
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on October 31, 2013, 03:03:50 pm
There is a bad shadow in the top portion of the photo. Could you please take a better picture?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: blommers on October 31, 2013, 03:57:31 pm
pic3
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: Ipcress on October 31, 2013, 04:41:32 pm
Have to say that the quality doesn't appear to be good enough. Compare that with this

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/629985 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/629985)

However, you should have it appraised by someone qualified first hand. Where are you located ?
It's difficult to appraise artwork via the internet, especially with low quality images and a painting under glass. It could be one of Blommers' preliminary works, it could be a quick watercolour and thus not as detailed as others.

By the way, check these two out

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13157885_bernardus-j-blommers-dutchamerican-1845-1914 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13157885_bernardus-j-blommers-dutchamerican-1845-1914)

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13047207_b-j-blommers-1845-1914-watercolor (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/13047207_b-j-blommers-1845-1914-watercolor)

The same artist painting the same subject matter twice, or is the first a con job ?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on October 31, 2013, 06:09:19 pm
Do you think ifthe painting was cleaned it would be brighter, Ipcress?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: icedgold10 on October 31, 2013, 06:17:58 pm
Compare the signatures.  Not sure they are from the same person. Ipcress, your opinion?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: Ipcress on October 31, 2013, 06:18:10 pm
Possibly. Might be sunlight damage though.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: blommers on October 31, 2013, 07:39:15 pm
It was in a bedroom which received about 3 hours of sunlight every morning which could explain sun damage. I'm going to take of the back of the frame later hopefully their is some type of authenticity document. It also has this strange mark in the top right hand corner which almost resembles lightning.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on October 31, 2013, 08:08:23 pm
Its not sun damage on that signature !! The last one Ipcress posted isn`t even close to the other two !! Bottom two have an estimate of $2000. to $4000. and $2000. to $3000. But the first one posted has an estimate of $60,000. to $80,000.  That kind of jump is odd in the art world !!
The signature can change slightly over the years but it should have basically the same style lettering !! The top two at least resemble the one shown at top,, but that last one I would sure question !! Unless the artist changed his handwriting dramatically !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on October 31, 2013, 09:06:32 pm
Mart I didn't mean the signature.  I meant overall.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on October 31, 2013, 09:15:23 pm
I think they are just not very good pics and would likely be better in correct light !!   

Blommers are you sure this is an oil on canvas !! They are usually not matted !! Is there a glass over it ?? If so its a watercolor !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: KC on October 31, 2013, 11:00:50 pm
DO NOT CLEAN IT YOURSELF!!!!!  If it is a watercolor it will be ruined!!!!  Am I correct it is under glass?  When enlarged the pic has what appears to be large swooping water lines.....?????

Lightening in this scene????  Odd!!!!
The live auctioneers one sold for $240k in Ipcress comments above.  Oil on canvas. #629985
Second one sold for $1,200. (watercolor on paper)
Third sold for $3,250.  (watercolor on paper)

Bernardus Bloomers painted different scenes of the same subjects!  But the signature shouldn't change so drastically.  Would recommend that you have it seen hands on by someone in the know! 
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: cogar on November 01, 2013, 04:16:40 am
I agree with KC, that "looks-like-lightening" is actually water damage ...... and thus the picture is a "water color".
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: Ipcress on November 01, 2013, 04:19:43 am
It's watercolour with bodycolour, otherwise known as heightened white

There appears to be sun damage - some unusual darkened areas. " Blommers " has confirmed the picture was subjected to direct sunlight for a long period.

There's also a significant closed tear where the signature is

There's another which has been covered by " lightning " / more heightened white

The signature is slightly different, however as people age their writing changes.

The only way to attribute this properly would be to remove it from the frame and examine the type of paper used, age etc

The auction prices vary greatly because of auction house location and clientele, how collectors view the piece ( the auction house may have catalogued it as being by the artist but collectors and experts may think it is a " follower " of that artist ). Also the provenance - paintings which have been part of museum collections or displayed in prominent, public places are often worth far more than the average example )

Below is a Blommers watercolour which fetched $15,000. Better scale and detail, more " movement " and the signature is more flamboyant and in keeping with the artists regular signature

(http://p2.la-img.com/65/11099/2791383_1_l.jpg)

On findartinfo.com there are 6 pages of results for this artist. With this being a prolific artist who painted popular, attractive subjects then there will been many homages or copies on the market. I realise the original poster is convinced this is an original but a few things

a ) He didn't buy it
b ) He's asking people's opinion.
c ) His grandmother may well have acquired this genuinely believing it to be original but even in the early 20th century there will have been pictures bearing this signature that will not have been originals.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: Ipcress on November 01, 2013, 04:21:49 am
Well someones smited me in the last few minutes.

Thank you, whoever it was ! You must be really proud.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: icedgold10 on November 01, 2013, 04:35:48 am
Well if one is a watercolor and one is oil that would help explain the signature being different.  I just noticed one was thicker.  The water color would be thicker.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 01, 2013, 08:17:14 am
I recently inherited this painting from my grandmother and plan on selling I am just wondering what could I expect from it at auction? I am 100% sure its real as my grandmother attended art school in Boston and was an avid antique collector, I also have not been able to find any copies online its been in my family for 50+ so I guess this could be expected?

Was the artist your grandparent ?? Curious because your name here is the same as the signature ??
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: cogar on November 01, 2013, 10:30:36 am
Well someones smited me in the last few minutes.

Thank you, whoever it was ! You must be really proud.


What was that all about?  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 01, 2013, 10:52:08 am
Well someones smited me in the last few minutes.

Thank you, whoever it was ! You must be really proud.

I thought that was an old one ??  I recall you mentioning it a while back !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: icedgold10 on November 01, 2013, 06:20:35 pm
No, he didn't have any spites.  Not sure why someone would do that.  He provides extensive knowledge on paintings. 
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on November 01, 2013, 06:28:57 pm
Someone must be joking around maybe. ???
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 01, 2013, 07:27:09 pm
No, he didn't have any spites.  Not sure why someone would do that.  He provides extensive knowledge on paintings. 

Must have been someone else then !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: jacon4 on November 02, 2013, 01:23:25 am
LOL @ Well someones smited me in the last few minutes.

I had no clue what that meant, til now. Never realized there was an applaud/smite thingy next to each posters name.

I now notice I am batting 0/0 on that front! oh dear, whatever will i do?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: Ipcress on November 02, 2013, 04:10:42 am
I know ! I'm at my wits end. 2 more strikes and i'm back to frog form !
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: ghopper1924 on November 02, 2013, 06:54:28 am
Yeah, I thought that smite was an old one as well. How odd.
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 07:15:55 am
Took care of that one Jacon4 !! As our go-to guy on EA furniture,,,can't let you go without a big applaud !!
I never think about those things and rarely look at them !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: jacon4 on November 02, 2013, 08:03:49 am
Yeah, i had never noticed that karma thingy and now, my perfect record is RUINED!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 02:24:06 pm
I hope thats a joke !! I can`t take it off !!  ???
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on November 02, 2013, 06:13:37 pm
No jacon4 your fine. Karma is good, and smite is bad. Can Tales help him?
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: jacon4 on November 02, 2013, 06:42:17 pm
yeah, was just kidding, could care less about karma
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 07:39:45 pm
Good !!!  Got worried for a minute !!
Title: Re: Original Blommers oil painting.
Post by: greenacres on November 02, 2013, 08:52:25 pm
 ;D ;D ;D