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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 07:38:51 am

Title: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 07:38:51 am
Hello there guys I realy hope somone culd help me out I have this item and I have no idea what it is at all
seems to me that noone knows whoever I ask they just asume. I think it is older than 150 years maybe more
its made of some type of brass so colour is intact it just got dirty I havent cleaned it at all so I dont demage it.
Its long around 20 cm and box is thick like half cmit can be opened normaly I am courently waitng answers from some
experts so I want to gather more information as I can. And if anyone culd know aproximate value od said item link is below.
And please PM me if you have important info
 

http://www.imagebam.com/image/372b1c293925909
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 09, 2013, 07:59:59 am
Post pics on this site please !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 09, 2013, 08:55:41 am
That image is visible from space !

I'll reduce it and hotlink it.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 09, 2013, 08:58:20 am
(http://cubeupload.com/im/dCboxp.jpg)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 09, 2013, 09:04:39 am
(http://i40.tinypic.com/1z1aept.jpg)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 09:18:04 am
That image is visible from space !

I'll reduce it and hotlink it.
Tnx man xD was taken on gihest resolution had some pics from phone but they warent good. I hope I can get some more info on item
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: cogar on December 09, 2013, 11:26:04 am
HA,  ;D ;D looks to me like it might be a "key ring" for a "combination" lock.

Thus, one (1) "key ring" fits all similar "combination" locks ....... iffen you know what the "combination" of the lock is. :D :D
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 11:36:50 am
Its box.... that can be opened...
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: cogar on December 09, 2013, 11:44:39 am
Its box.... that can be opened...

SO????? ............. what box? The one in the picture that the keys are attached to?

If so, you couldn't use those keys to open it iffen it was locked.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: KC on December 09, 2013, 11:47:30 am
Can you please post a pic with the lid open?

It was made to wear on a belt or chain....

Dimensions of box.

Could possible be a locket of sorts for photos? (Depending on measurements) 
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 12:54:42 pm
Whole thing is long 23.5 cm box alone is 7 cm in width 4 cm.... Those are not keys those are just decoration no use of them at all (http://i39.tinypic.com/30a6zxt.jpg)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Rauville on December 09, 2013, 01:16:45 pm
Compare with this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-BRASS-TINDER-BOX-Purchased-in-Turkey-in-1986-/121224116662 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-BRASS-TINDER-BOX-Purchased-in-Turkey-in-1986-/121224116662)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 01:31:26 pm
Tnx on find. I find that one kinda newer and made from difrent type of brass also that one is welded mine isnot anywere
whole thing is made by cast process basicly its in one peace whole box. Have to chech what is made of exactly tommorow
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 01:38:25 pm
Irrespective of what yours is made of...what Rauville has found is what yours is...there is No..Ah,... Buts....yours might be older, or it could be younger, and unless its got a date stamped on its backside...its a tinderbox...with very little value...

.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 01:41:08 pm
Well you can tell whatever you want still have to go to museum. BAsicly what are you saying is that every car is same... Sorry no disrespect
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 02:07:46 pm
Has IQ,s suddenly dropped,....you came on here,looking for info on your object....Rauville found what it is...a tinderbox,...not a car, not a long lost heirloom...but a simple brass tinderbox.... ;)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 02:15:32 pm
If you dont know what I ment by that sentance I am sorry... What he found wasnt mine item just same type but not mine idk witch part you dont understand.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 02:38:47 pm
Maybe my words are getting lost in translation....my Croat...is,nt very good...before coming here ..you had no idea what this was, no one could tell you, ...but, The Mighty Rauvulle...with that giant book that he,s got stuck between the cheeks of his arse...found out what you,ve got...what more do you require,....ok..its not yours,....but that was,nt why you came here...
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 02:48:00 pm
That was just pice of information I needed, nothing got misstranslated I understand every word writen. He said compare I compared end of story I rather wont waste my time on pointless replys. Please if you dont have any info on it just leave topic I beg of you this item means
lot to me its from my late great-grandfather maybe even from his great-grandfather I dont know rly, noone in family actualy knows where it is
from or how old it is all heard from my father that it was used on horse how why I have no clue. So if you canot be of any help to me please leave.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 03:36:01 pm
This is like Deja-vu.... ::)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: KC on December 09, 2013, 04:05:30 pm
Demien88, I do believe that is a ornate Tinder (not the edible kind) Container!  Now, if it is newer, it could be made in the likeness for nostalgia.  Good Job Rauville!  But, hit the nail on the head!!!!  Coud be Turkish or Tibetan.

There were all kinds available...from sterling to white metal. These were from the time before you had lighters.

Tibet Tinder Box or purse 20th Century
(http://shard3.1stdibs.us.com/archivesE/jewelry/upload/216/195/.jpg)

Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 04:24:28 pm
Demien88, I do believe that is a ornate Tinder (not the edible kind) Container!  Now, if it is newer, it could be made in the likeness for nostalgia.  Good Job Rauville!  But, hit the nail on the head!!!!  Coud be Turkish or Tibetan.

There were all kinds available...from sterling to white metal. These were from the time before you had lighters.

Tibet Tinder Box or purse 20th Century
(http://shard3.1stdibs.us.com/archivesE/jewelry/upload/216/195/.jpg)


.....and before that..it was rubbing twa sticks the gither.... ;D
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 09, 2013, 04:25:35 pm
Tnx that helped I thought same thing about age of it. I ran into some people that were working in museums they culdnt figure out
witch century it is from they were all around from 16 to 19 but they guest same thing about origin Turkish. Decorations
seems way difrent on that one but you never know.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 05:13:56 pm
Well done KC....the penny has dropped ;D
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 09, 2013, 05:53:04 pm
Do you have to be rude all the time ?
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 09, 2013, 06:14:17 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 04:27:31 am
Do you have to be rude all the time ?
He is "troll" I just canot belive somone that old have that much free time on his hands and to behave like little child....
Anyways waiting for some "profesionals" to get back to work so I can take item there and find out somthing new.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 10, 2013, 05:36:41 am
I think Rauville and KC have both shown you toward the right area. A Central Asian ( old Ottoman Empire / Tibet etc ) case or purse of some kind.


This was silver, better made and much more desirable

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/an-ottoman-silver-gilt-niello-gunpowder-box-5248746-details.aspx (http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/an-ottoman-silver-gilt-niello-gunpowder-box-5248746-details.aspx)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: icedgold10 on December 10, 2013, 05:43:34 am
That is a very cool item.  I thought it was like a little purse at first.  You could use it as a nice pendant too though.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 06:41:24 am
I just returned from museum they said its from 17 or 18th century indeed it is gunpowder box that used to be worn
more likley on belt. Those thingies on belt are made of silver the box alone is bronze. They also said
that they got similar items but in realy bad shape. Still have to wait for complete indetification from capital city.
And "ruby" on top is still unknown idk is it real or not will try to indetify it aswell. Tnx on find of that gunpowder box ;)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 10, 2013, 07:37:22 am
I'd be surprised if it was that old. This type of ' artefact ' is quite common in UK auction rooms and it's generally 20th century. A simple, more naive design doesn't mean it's older.

Maybe the box is older but with a newer belt ?
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 08:06:20 am
Idk it might be but I doubt it belt is demaged but a little
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 12:37:00 pm
Now I am apsolutley positive it is from Ottoman Empire but what bugs me is the belt on every item I
find online its missing or its nothing similar or decorative like on mine or its simply replaced by newer belt.
It just bugs me culd it be from some higher ranked Turcish officier or immportant person among millitary...
I rly hope I culd find somone that knows somthing more about Ottoman Empire
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 10, 2013, 02:36:24 pm
Do you have to be rude all the time ?
He is "troll" I just canot belive somone that old have that much free time on his hands and to behave like little child....
Anyways waiting for some "profesionals" to get back to work so I can take item there and find out somthing new.
I,ve been called many things...but..have to admit..never a  troll...but i don,t mind....cos..sticks and stones may break my bones....but names will never harm me.....Now there are many things i could call you.......but... i have promised never again to let my emotions get the better of me....so i will keep my thoughts to myself..... ;D
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on December 10, 2013, 03:01:00 pm
Now I am apsolutley positive it is from Ottoman Empire but what bugs me is the belt on every item I
find online its missing or its nothing similar or decorative like on mine or its simply replaced by newer belt.
It just bugs me culd it be from some higher ranked Turcish officier or immportant person among millitary...
I rly hope I culd find somone that knows somthing more about Ottoman Empire

The case would be better quality if it were for an officer or v.i.p

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 03:33:18 pm
Maybe they had some kind of lazy blacksmith xD. It is odd that silver is on belt if I am not mistaken it had
big value back then and that ruby looking rock have done basic tests and it passed but there is high posibility
that its fake need expert for it sadly have to travel 500km to get to one -_-
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on December 10, 2013, 04:39:11 pm
I think what you have here is actually a Bedouin prayer box. These are all individually made, so they will look different from one another, but I'll post a couple of similar examples. The owner  puts a prayer on a piece of paper inside the box and carries it with her. These also come in a cylindrical shape and often on those the prayer is sealed inside so that it can't be opened.

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/9c/90/d5/9c90d5104849da14b0433e80f24143ca.jpg)

(http://img2.etsystatic.com/007/0/5629042/il_170x135.372181661_7hp0.jpg)

(http://img0.etsystatic.com/013/0/7888759/il_170x135.432729000_cwuk.jpg)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/AMAZING-BERBER-BEDOUIN-BELLY-DANCE-SCA-TALISMAN-PENDANT-PRAYER-BOX-/00/s/NTk5WDkwMA==/z/nP0AAOxydyxSQIFR/$T2eC16JHJGsFFMkL3YL-BSQIFQtwhw~~60_35.JPG)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Antique-Yemeni-Bedouin-Necklace-handmade-Yemen-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDQw/z/Wh4AAOxyXp5SNtwr/$T2eC16R,!)4FI,VOSVdYBSNtwrNFB!~~60_57.JPG)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 10, 2013, 05:23:16 pm
I also thought in begining that was somthing like that but nah real shame. They told me at museum
it is Turcish gunpowder box that was worn on belt. I noticed bell thingy on last pic I have somthing looking same as
that bell but it got all black or simply rusted have to check it out
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: KC on December 10, 2013, 05:26:00 pm
Nice find Talesof!!!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on December 10, 2013, 06:10:36 pm
Ah, I must have missed that part of the post!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: MarySmith on December 12, 2013, 03:14:58 pm
I'd be surprised if it was that old. This type of ' artefact ' is quite common in UK auction rooms and it's generally 20th century. A simple, more naive design doesn't mean it's older.

Maybe the box is older but with a newer belt ?
Just butting in but I did notice UK prices versus US prices on many vintage items can be very different. I noticed an Art deco vase that sells on Ebay for a few dollars in the UK might sell for much much more in the the USA. I love old British Airways Concorde collectables  but here in the US the prices are sky high for even just a key fob. BA SST things are very cheap over in the UK :-(
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 12, 2013, 04:29:35 pm
How right you are for Concorde memoravbilia prices in the UK...just 2 months ago at our local auction house  in Montrose,they had a model of the first Concorde..it came from a travel agent that went bust...it was 4ft long ...and it sold for a measly £60 ....there was also a box of odds & sods, that went with it,...
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 12, 2013, 05:53:04 pm
I'd be surprised if it was that old. This type of ' artefact ' is quite common in UK auction rooms and it's generally 20th century. A simple, more naive design doesn't mean it's older.

Maybe the box is older but with a newer belt ?
Just butting in but I did notice UK prices versus US prices on many vintage items can be very different. I noticed an Art deco vase that sells on Ebay for a few dollars in the UK might sell for much much more in the the USA. I love old British Airways Concorde collectables  but here in the US the prices are sky high for even just a key fob. BA SST things are very cheap over in the UK :-(
Thats why I wanted to check this item completley will be going to another town in few days to indetify rock, museum wanted to buy it I dont think thats for nothing
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 12, 2013, 06:16:19 pm
I'd be surprised if it was that old. This type of ' artefact ' is quite common in UK auction rooms and it's generally 20th century. A simple, more naive design doesn't mean it's older.

Maybe the box is older but with a newer belt ?
Just butting in but I did notice UK prices versus US prices on many vintage items can be very different. I noticed an Art deco vase that sells on Ebay for a few dollars in the UK might sell for much much more in the the USA. I love old British Airways Concorde collectables  but here in the US the prices are sky high for even just a key fob. BA SST things are very cheap over in the UK :-(

Indeed things are cheaper in the UK !!  Wait till you see Wullies woodshed,,before he fills it !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: KC on December 14, 2013, 10:36:04 pm
Yeah, Wullie uses antiques/vintage items to heat his home (firewood literally) that we drool over here in the US!!!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 15, 2013, 11:08:30 am
Beautiful oak furniture,, up in smoke !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: bigwull on December 15, 2013, 12:47:08 pm
beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.......just think of it as a cremation..it keeps us warm and ..the ash gets put back into the ground.... ;D
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 15, 2013, 05:00:34 pm
Ops I wanted to ask one thing and I forgot. What I shuld be carefull about when I am carying rock on indetifying
lets say it is real what are properies of any ruby besides purity... I dont want to end up screwed
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 15, 2013, 05:25:11 pm
Never sell to the first person you take it to !! You need at least three opinions !! If all are within same area you are ok to pick one and sell it !! And don`t mention selling it,, just ask if its real approx. carat weight and approx. worth !!  They should be able to tell without taking it out of your site !! Don`t leave it !!  If they make an offer tell them you will think about it !! But remember they will need to make a profit too so don`t expect retail value !!  50 to 60% is about what you would expect from a jeweler/dealer !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 16, 2013, 06:27:30 am
Thank you man I was thinking similar even selling whole thing on ebay if it is worth
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 16, 2013, 07:00:33 am
Ask the jeweler to give you a written opinion on the stone if you go the Ebay route !!  That will add some credence to your description !!  Ebay is probably your best bet !! Good description, good pics are important !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: KC on December 16, 2013, 09:04:03 am
Definitely find out the stone!  :)
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 16, 2013, 12:47:54 pm
Ask the jeweler to give you a written opinion on the stone if you go the Ebay route !!  That will add some credence to your description !!  Ebay is probably your best bet !! Good description, good pics are important !!
Jup since ppl here are realy cheap if you know what I mean, they wuldnt give a 25% of total worth. Thank you guys very much on info and help.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on December 16, 2013, 03:11:19 pm
Good luck and let us know the outcome !!
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on December 16, 2013, 04:06:41 pm
Yea I will but it will take a while I think.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on February 20, 2014, 04:56:54 am
Hello again guys well this is what I found out. I have many sources now on what realy item is as we said cartrige box, or greese box to maintain guns that used to have hard leather inside also, the age of item is aprox 18-19 centoury not earlyer aprox worth based on pictures around 350 euros, valued by one man that works for one of UK AH-s.(its going realy slow with e-mails)
Now origin isnt realy Turcish it is Balkan since this area where I live used to be under sige of them for long time so people known to use their
ways of crafting for some time but when Ottoman Empire was gone people here started to use their own ways of crafting etc.  I am still doing some diging around since info I gather seems incostitant one man even said it was used on horses to cary flint the same man that said the rock is
just a glass a jewler. Now only thing I want to ask you guys is do anyone maybe know when that type of cuting and forming glass first apeared, far as I know realy early. Tnx once again
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: mart on February 20, 2014, 06:40:21 pm
Have you gotten other opinions on the stone ??  Or just one ??
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on February 21, 2014, 09:50:08 am
Just one my mother says that she dosnt belive that guy xD me neither so we will go another town to see what other jewlers
might say. As I know those type of carving glass was realy hard before so I somhow doubt its "just simple glass"
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: Ipcress on February 21, 2014, 10:14:16 am
350 euros ?!

I'd have my flabbers gasted if it fetched that much.
Title: Re: Need help to indetify this object
Post by: demien88 on February 21, 2014, 01:16:06 pm
350 euros ?!

I'd have my flabbers gasted if it fetched that much.

Just based on pictures I provided might be slihtly more or less if inspected inperson, but still its one minimum paycheck here so I
will be happy if I find buyer