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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: msghopper1924 on April 29, 2016, 01:05:38 pm
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Hey Gang:
A little help here....The frame measures 13" x 19" at it's widest, and boasts an Egyptian sarcophigus face and a north winds face as well, plus c-scrolls and other assorted decoration. I'm guessing a date of 1870 or so on the mirror, but it could be later.
Anyway, can anyone provide a probable country of origin and year of manufacture? I'll guess that the mirror is worth about $200.
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What is it made of MrsG ??
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Brass!
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https://www.google.com/search?q=Louis+XV+brass+wall+mirrors+from+france&rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS366US455&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=709&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTh5XDmLXMAhVDSyYKHTmdChoQ7AkIKg
In my mind,, more typical of Louis XV style,, 1890 or so made in France !! But let KC look at it,,she collects French antiques !!
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OK, so one vote for France, ca. 1890?
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Surely worth more than $200 ?
Can I see the back ?
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Frames of any kind are notoriously difficult to date accurately !! They followed no particular style and were at the whim of the mfr !! You can see similarities in style depending on who was in power at the time !! Even those similarities lessened as one looks at the upper class vs the middle and lower classes of people !! If the ruling class favored one style the common folks followed suit also between the same class of people !! Makes little difference in the country it was made in !! If the Jones`s down the road bought one similar to what the ruling class had,, the Smiths followed suit !! Same as here !!
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Good morning Ipcress,, the lower pic is the back !!
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I would agree, certainly Louis XV style and if it isn't French, it's trying to be. Lovely item.
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I would agree, certainly Louis XV style and if it isn't French, it's trying to be. Lovely item.
It is a nice one isn`t it ??
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Surely worth more than $200 ?
Can I see the back ?
Worth more than $200? Any suggestions?
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This mirror is combining all kinds of elements. Rococo was all about curves/s styles. The straight leaves and leaf style aren't right for the time. This appears to be a mix of styles.
Can you please post a close up of the faces on the sides and the sphynx? In the Directoire Period the Egyptian influence was introduced into French design.
Look at Egyptian Revival, Roccoco, Louis XVI, etc and you will see that there are elements of all in this mirror.
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http://www.meirelles.com.au/a-history-of-mirrors/
This is just interesting !! Was going to post this yesterday but forgot !!
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Nice read Mart!
I like the timeline charting on the FrenchMetro.com site and recommend all try and use this, or others like it, to help with identifying elements from different periods. It gives a fairly accurate description of characteristics/materials/ornamentation of each period in relations to furniture/decor predominantly INTERIOR (can encompass exterior architecture but that is a whole other ballgame!)
http://frenchmetro.com/pages/periods (http://frenchmetro.com/pages/periods)
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Since this is a revival mirror,,maybe they could not make up their mind which Louis they wanted to revive !! :)
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More photos. The focus was difficult on a couple, as I'm sure you can see. Hope these help!
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What is interesting is that it appears that the 2nd picture is either of the Green Man or North Wind. I was going to say immediately it was the North Wind blowing out air....but the close up looks like leaves on the end!?! What do ya'll think?
As for the first picture...Can't tell if it is a jester, pharaoh doesn't look like a soldier. It's not a cherub/putti.
In VERY late 1800's to early 1900's a mix of everything together would appear - Here is a hand mirror for example. Look at all of the elements on it (Sphinx, soldier, Northwind and rope design). http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Unusual-Antique-Mirror-Pharoh-Roman-Soldier-One-Other-Lacquered-Brass-Surround-/391418211153?hash=item5b2257eb51:g:OE4AAOSwJQdW-X-4 (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Unusual-Antique-Mirror-Pharoh-Roman-Soldier-One-Other-Lacquered-Brass-Surround-/391418211153?hash=item5b2257eb51:g:OE4AAOSwJQdW-X-4)
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Thanks KC. I'm beginning to think Mart was right...1890s. The thing that throws me is the c-scrolls, which look much earlier, like about 1860-70.
I guess that we'll stick with $200 for value and France as the country where it was made?
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C-scrolls would be leading into the Noveau period which started around 1890 and peaked during the 1920`s !!
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I forgot to add that the rope design was prevalent in The Regency Period of mirrors. Yes, the C scrolls were seen in Victorian. Sphericles were used over the years in all phases.
I am feeling that yours is just a Revival of lotsa' things.
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So, KC, what's your take on the year, value and place on this? So far I've got 1890, $200, and France.
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Is the entire frame stamped brass ??
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I'm just stuck. The thing that throws me off from saying anything is that one face - it just doesn't seem to fit.
That is making me think a more modern item (mid 1900's). If that face wasn't on it I would say late early 1900's definitely.
Anyone else have an idea who/what that head represents?
Also, the backing of the mirror...what is it made of?
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Is the entire frame stamped brass ??
Yes
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Then I am sticking with what I said earlier !! And I did not give a value but I think that $200. is about right !! Give or take a few !!
Which face are you talking about KC ??
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Mart, the one at the bottom of the mirror. It is the first one enlarged. Large round face with a top band and Leaves/hair? I think this MIGHT help hold the key to timing.
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Everything I have found says the one you are talking about (didn`t mention the band though) was just a variation of North Wind !! Mouth open to blow bad spirits away !! What is most telling to me is the Egyptian one !! King Tuts tomb was found in 1890`s and was not entered til 1922 so could be anywhere within that period !! Many things had an Egyptian theme back then in anticipation of its opening and afterward !!
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Mart this is the one I am referring to - He isn't the Green Man even tho it appears he has greenery on the head. He isn't adorned as if a Pharoah or soldier, etc.
(http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18653.0;attach=65865;image)
The North Wind are on the sides (2 of them)
(http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18653.0;attach=65867;image)
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That "face" reminds me of something maybe found on French ormolu mounts???
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FfVf0AjTN9M/SWFlKUcCwjI/AAAAAAAABwY/7p6d8Pqdsc4/s1600/face+and+arrow+ormolu.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FfVf0AjTN9M/SWFlKUcCwjI/AAAAAAAABwY/7p6d8Pqdsc4/s1600/face+and+arrow+ormolu.jpg)
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It is very similar Rauville !! I am talking about the Egyptian face #43,,third one down from top !!
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Could the face be Louis the Sun King?
Also, the back seems to be wood wrapped in fabric. Can't tell more without pulling it off the mirror, which I don't want to do.
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If you think it might be wood wrapped with cloth,, get a sewing pin or needle and stick it through the fabric and you should be able to feel it go into the wood slightly !! Or tap the back with a metal object ( I use a butter knife with a heavy metal handle) if wood will be a dull thud a clinking sound if metal !!
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OK, the back is cardboard wrapped in fabric. I took that out, and the back of the mirror itself is painted gray.
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That is what the mirror should look like !! What about the frame where the mirror fits in ??
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It fits squarely into the cast brass frame that you see in the second photo. The back is held in by (original) short metal clips around the periphery of the frame to hold the mirror in tightly.
In the photo, you can only see the top clip, as the cardboard piece wrapped in fabric is resting on the top of the rest of the clips. But trust me, they're there.
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Yes,, they were making frames that clipped in like that up to the 1920`s !! I think yours is a bit earlier than that !!
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So we're still at ca. 1890 France, value about $200? I ask for insurance purposes.
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Double that for insurance purposes !!
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Agree! Double for insurance purposes!
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Thank you!
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Just glad to have you back on here MsG !! You and MrG have some interesting items !!
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Totally agree with Mart!
Watch out Mart...storms are a comin'!
Lightening strike by our house last night put out our A/C (up to 92 today)!
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You too. Both of you should post some personal antique items!
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Storms are missing us and heading toward Oklahoma !! Had some wind and a sprinkle of rain but thats all !! Darn,, are you sitting on top of a hill ?? Didn`t storms do some damage to your house last year ??
KC has the good stuff MsG !! Most of mine is in storage except just a few things !! This old 50`s house was hubby`s family home and a stick of dynamite would not make him change it !! That includes his family stuff !!
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OK KC, how about it? :)
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All my collections are packed up now. Having built in cabinets painted/updating. When I get them back out (hopefully within the next few months) I will post some!
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Yeah! Just one each from Mart and KC, just for the fun of it.