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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: jacon4 on November 12, 2016, 11:07:31 am
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Hmmmmm, oh hell yeah, i am interested! That paint looks to good to be true though, no condition report so i inquired, the cotter pin hinges do not look original when looking at top of box, hard to say for sure by pic's alone. Although these early boxes are the most plentiful pilgrim era objects available, they are not "bible" boxes but that's what everyone calls them today. No one knows exactly what these boxes were called or used for back in the day however, the most likely function of these boxes were for personal items. That makes the most sense since families back then did not have separate bedrooms, having a box to store your own very personal items seems logical.
In any event, it is an early american box, all original or not.
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/49072026?from=alert&utm_source=SavedAlert&utm_campaign=SearchAlert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=item
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Very nice Jacon4 !! I have heard them most often called document boxes or deed boxes !!
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Well, they are ALWAYS listed as "bible" boxes, a term that came into being during the victorian era, long after this box came into the world. Where's Hosman! here is a chance to own a genuine early object! so what if hinges and paint are later, still a pilgrim era piece!
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Send her a PM !! What do you think it will sell for ??
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I emailed her, don't know where she got off to. Value? well, as always condition plays a large role usually, if the paint is not original that's a big deal so value should be lowered. The decoration seems more like mid 18th century to me in a Pennsylvania style. Estimate is 1-3k, I'd say that's pretty close, it is an early box. I'd be a player in the 1000-1500 range, depending on what they say to my questions.
Remember Ruth's box? ugh, i am still ill over losing that one.
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It was November, thanksgiving sale like now, MAN i wanted that box, estimate was 1-2k, i was willing to go 4k, how could i lose?! PAINFUL! it went for over 8k, KILLER BOX! BOTTOM REPLACED! REPLACED LOCK! REPAINTED! but, i lost, BIG TIME! Ruth's box went for over 8k.
http://auctions.garths.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=1054+++++++8+&refno=++194879&image=0&mypage=1
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What's "Pilgim"?
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What's "Pilgim"?
"pilgrim" century furniture refers to furniture built from 1620-1720. It is mostly joined or turned, riven oak in the jacobean style, it is quite boxy & chunky in appearance and furniture was built this way for hundreds of years, from the middle ages onward. The William & Mary style changed EVERYTHING! in furniture , not only in style but construction as well when dovetails started to dominate in how furniture was built.
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Ruth's box is too cool.
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Yeah, it's probably a wedding box, one of my more painful losses and, unlike the bird chest i am very unlikely to get a second chance.
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I don`t remember seeing Ruths box !! That back is just butt joined and nailed (current box)!! Is that a repair to the top ?? Under side,, right !! It isn`t the same as the left side !!
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I don`t remember seeing Ruths box !!
I'll never forget it!
That back is just butt joined and nailed (current box)!!
No, it's a ship lap joint, the sides of box are rabbeted to accept front & back panel, then nailed. common construction in early boxes
Is that a repair to the top ?? Under side,, right !!
Yeah, i noticed it, can't really tell what's going on there from pics
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Your eyes are better than mine !!
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lol, my EVERYTHING is better than yours! BAM!
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Now lets not get personal, Jacon4 !! ;D ;D
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Sorry jacon4, had to have fun with you because if you look at your "Subject section" you put Re: Pilgim Painted Box (ftp://Re: Pilgim Painted Box). That is why I asked what was "pilgim". You don't usually let that slip! Guess you were way tooooooo excited about this boxed beauty!
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??????? Am TOTALLY not following you, it's a pilgrim era wood box that is painted which i shortened to "pilgrim painted box". Have you fallen off your tree stump down there and injured yourself? BAM! or maybe i should have titled "painted pilgrim box"??????
Mart, get your old self over and check on her, i think there has a a stump accident!
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Like maybe the Pilgrim is the one that painted it ?? Or the artists name was Pilgrim ??
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOO, pilgrim refers to a style, era or date of American furniture, it's like saying chippendale or queen anne, hello? Have you been stump hopping down there too? Tripped and broke your head or something? What have you old women been doin down there?
OK, show of hands, who that has been reading this post doesn't understand that "pilgrim" refers to a style or date in the american furniture vernacular/language?
Dang, I'd hate to think i have been talking about pilgrim furniture in here since Sept 26 2007 and no one knew what the hell i was talkin about! I have been talking to myself all these many years?
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I always understood the word to either refer to the era and place (17th century New England) or the people themselves.
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(17th century New England)
Or the southland too, it was the first english settlement at jamestown in 1609, trouble is, from war & climate not near as much pilgrim furniture survives from the south.
See there! ghopper knew EXACTLY what i was referring too! I say there has been a HORRIBLE stump incident in Texas!
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"Horrible stump incident." ;D ;D
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I totally understand PILGRIM Box....but look at the SUBJECT LINE you posted....it says Pilgim Box - You are missing your "r"!!!!!!! Now, am I seeing something you fellas aren't or are your brains completing the word for you?
We actually find our stumps quite comfy and creative here! Amazing what creative folks do with stumps!
(http://lubbockonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/story_slideshow_thumb/12680282.jpg)
(http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/06/Wotten-Tree-Stump-House-7-889x690.jpg)
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oooooooooooooohhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh oh lord!, a typo? typing is women's work, isn't it? You should have fixed that by now!
OK, i fixed it! geez!
Are you related the the stump jumper who almost gave me a heart attack because i had no decorations on my walls?!!!
And BTW, that is NOT a subject line, it's a TOPIC line!!!
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I totally understand PILGRIM Box....but look at the SUBJECT LINE you posted....it says Pilgim Box - You are missing your "r"!!!!!!! Now, am I seeing something you fellas aren't or are your brains completing the word for you?
In my case yes, my brain was filling in the "r." But it looks like the subject header is still wrong.
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Yeah, it's corrected now on my first post but not all the way through thread! Typical stump jumper software! barely works on a good day and is rather antique in internet terms!
And then the other stump resident chimes in about someone named pilgrim that painted it! :P
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Heavens !! I didn`t notice either !! And I hate misspelled words !!
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And BTW, that is NOT a subject line, it's a TOPIC line!!!
Ahem...you are off your game today...jacon4! At 1,285 posts on here....you never noticed? On FORUM MAIN PAGE and when you post a reply...
It's okay. Sometimes slowing down and sitting on a stump relaxing...relaxing helps!
I just updated all the headings....now time to go sit and relax....
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Heavens !! I didn`t notice either !! And I hate misspelled words !!
Yeah, led poor old dad down the garden path again! Maybe it was "Painted by some artist named pilgrim!"
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LOL !! We have a lot of Pilgrims here !! Ever heard of Bo Pilgrim !! Or maybe you do not like fried chicken !!
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GONE! GONE! GONE! cheney is GONE! your fifty dollars GONE! the whiskey GONE!...... I have become old & foolish and led on a wild goose chase by a harpy in trowsers and a nincompoop!.............said jeff bridges in remake of True Grit, best line in the movie
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Crack me up Mart! Pilgrim Pride! 😄
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LOL !! We have a lot of Pilgrims here !! Ever heard of Bo Pilgrim !! Or maybe you do not like fried chicken !!
I haven't laughed this much at a forum thread for awhile. ;D ;D
But you'll have to explain this Bo Pilgrim reference.
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LOL !! Bo Pilgrim lives in Pittsburg Texas and is/was the owner of Pilgrims Pride a huge chicken processing plant spread between two counties !! Thats what I was talking about,,many people named Pilgrim here !! Guess they don`t ship chickens to your area !!
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Perdue is far closer. I guess they've monopolized the market for Missouri, because I've never heard of Pilgrim (except Billy Pilgrim....a karma point to the first person who gets that reference).
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I have seen Pilgrim chicken some here in Charlotte but Perdue dominates on the east coast. God almighty, now we have pilgrim chicken people invading the thread! GONE GONE GONE!!!!
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My neighbor used to be head of commercial sales for Bo!
He looks like a Pilgrim to me (more ways than one)! LOL
(http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/images/tx/TXPITpilgrim_3825.jpg)
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Getting ready here in Plymouth Ma for lots of Pilgrim celebrations!
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I imagine you are, Pelady !!
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I bet that is exciting Pelady! Bet they go all out for that.
Down here it is commercialism, commercialism, commercialism. They have had Christmas lights up and pushing Christmas (as a buying opportunity and not the religious) for over a month. It's like they are slowly but surely skipping over/blocking out Thanksgiving (except Black Friday) to increase the bottom dollar.
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Just a tiny bit of the festivities. They are making huge plans for 2020 and the 400 year anniversary celebration.
http://www.usathanksgiving.com/
Today was the the historically accurate chronological parade, visually bringing to life America’s rich heritage representing each century from the 17th through the 21st.
PeLady
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OK, I see nobody got the Billy Pilgrim reference. He's the protagonist in Kurt Vonnegut's novel 'Slaughterhouse 5."
KC, please exercise your moderator's special powers and give the winner (me) a karma point! ;) :D
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Toot...I missed that one! Karma to you!
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OK, nevermind all that! The question is, what's this little box gonna go for IF, as i suspect, paint is not original and snipe hinges replaced? Before you answer, I'll add in one word about condition, RUTH!!! Estimate is 1-3k and yes, BP COUNTS! in guesses to all stump people on forum!
My guess is $1800.
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$1925.00
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$1475
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$2800. !!
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lol, the old woman steps out there! BAM! SHOCK & AWE! It didn't work on ruth's box though!
One reason i think condition wasn't as relevant as usual on Ruth box is, it had her name, it was dated and, it was decorated in the 17th century style carving. I am not so sure that will be the case with this box though.
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LOL !! Just taking a shot in the dark !!
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Just taking a shot in the dark !!
That's the trouble with collecting early american furniture, it REALLY IS a crap shoot and you have no good way to determine value at any given sale. I have been taking shots in the dark for over 30 years now and it's the same today as when i started.
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LOL !! You are bidding on this one ??
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Probably not, i never got a reply to my inquiries so thats never a good sign but i am registered to bid. I like the box but, it doesn't blow my socks off like Ruth box did! Maybe they are waiting till closer to sale date and answer all questions at once, they need to get on the stick though if that's the case, auction in 3 days! If it goes cheap, i am a player but won't fight for it.
Meanwhile, Freeman in philly has a sale Dec 15 and sent me this little cutie today to take a look at, a spice box.
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Now, I LIKE THAT SPICE BOX!!!!!
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Whoa !! Save your money,, this W&M is more your style !!
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Tell you what, this is the 3rd early piece in a row, that inlaid table, this box and now spice chest and NO condition report. This is not usual or normal process in the past and yes, condition reports are often wrong but they give you at least a benchmark to work with. I don't know if this is coincidence or trend but, i do not like it!
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Have you asked them for one ?? Or maybe they are just using the Buyer,,Beware tactic !!
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Tis the season to be jolly (and trusting?)! I know, I DO NOT buy without LOTS of photos and 'trusted' condition reports!
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When its my money the only person I trust is me !!
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Yeah i asked but, I can't remember the last time i had to ask on 3 objects in a row, from different sellers, like NEVER! Something is up, not sure what it is but it's a little weird to have 500 objects in a sale, all with condition reports and these early pieces, nada, blank space, WEIRD! And BTW, on this painted box that started thread that has no condition report? auction is tomorrow and still no reply.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
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Geez, 22hrs before sale starts
"Lot 3147:Top warped, does not lose completely, paint wear. Hinge and top possibly are replaced, paint looks original. "
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I thought the sale was today ?? If you have a place for it in the bathroom and a good heavy weight,,you can fix the top !! As long as its just warped and not split !! Would just take time !!
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I was mistaken by a day, it's tomorrow. WINNER gets a karma from all the losers!
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Hammer was $1100, BP $250, $1350 total!
And, the WINNER IS! KC!!!!
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LOL !! I am a winner too !! My losing streak has not been broken yet !! No one has beat me on that !!
Brownie point for KC !!
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A point for KC!
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Yep, she gets a point! something to do when forum is slow.
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Wow! Can't believe it went that low! Really thought I was off base! thanks for the points!
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Wow! Can't believe it went that low!
Well, i think this box was fairly priced at 1350, it was a nice example but not great example and condition mattered with this box. Outstanding examples like a Ruth box can overcome LOTS of condition issues, this little guy just didn't have that going for it.