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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: irration4l on April 02, 2010, 07:57:45 AM
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Hello everyone. I am totally green in antiques, and thus am asking for your kind help. I have got a porcelain plaque, witch I am thinking on selling. However, I do not have any info on it and neither the ability to evaluate it's price.
Here are some pictures:
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4025/dscf9412.th.jpg) (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/dscf9412.jpg/)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3986/dscf9411.th.jpg) (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/dscf9411.jpg/)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2605/dscf9419.th.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/dscf9419.jpg/)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5620/dscf9415y.th.jpg) (http://img138.imageshack.us/i/dscf9415y.jpg/)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5634/dscf9418.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/i/dscf9418.jpg/)
The writing on the back says "Biggs & Sons. Carvers, Gilders and picture restorers. 31 Conduit st Bond street, London. looking glasses supplied, old frames reoilt".
From that I have found out this on the the internet:
William Biggs, Biggs & Sons, Biggs & Son, W.H. Biggs & Co, from 1835: William Biggs (c.1797-1851) and his wife, Charlotte Elizabeth, had four sons christened at St Pancras Old Church between 1825 and 1833, including William Joseph in 1825, Alfred in 1827 and Henry in 1828, and two further sons, George c.1834, and Walter c.1835. William Biggs was listed in the 1841 census as a carver and gilder, and again in 1851 when his age was given as 54. He died later that year, leaving instructions in his lengthy will for his business to be carried on under certain conditions, and making bequests including to William Joseph Biggs.
The partnership between his widow, Charlotte Elizabeth, and their sons, William Joseph and Alfred, trading as Biggs & Sons, carver and gilder, printseller, dealer in pictures and drawings was dissolved on 1 January 1857, in so far as regards William Joseph (London Gazette 23 January 1857). William Joseph appeared before a court for insolvent debtors later that year (London Gazette 4 December 1857). In the 1881 census, William J. Biggs, age 53, was listed as an auctioneer.
Alfred Biggs was listed at 31 Conduit St in the 1861 census as a carver and gilder, employing six men and one boy; his household included his mother, Charlotte, and his two brothers George and Walter, both listed as commercial travellers. Alfred and his mother, Charlotte Elizabeth, carvers and gilders of 31 Conduit St, were subject to debt proceedings in 1868 (London Gazette 4 August 1868). In the 1871 census, both Alfred and Walter Biggs were listed in the same household as carvers and gilders.
Walter Henry Biggs advertised as W.H. Biggs, picture framemaker, established in 1795 (The Artists' Directory, 1874, p.10) and as W.H. Biggs & Co, picture restorers, picture framemakers, carvers, gilders and decorators (no author, but Charles H. Savory, The Illustrated Carver and Gilder's Guide..., 1st ed, ?1874). W.H. Biggs & Co had an account with the artists' colourmen, Roberson, 1878-82, from 7 Maddox St (Woodcock 1997). In the 1881 census, Walter H. Biggs, was listed as a fine art dealer, age 45. Walter Henry Biggs, trading as W.H. Biggs & Co, picture dealer, picture framemaker and carver and dealer, of 7 Maddox St, entered into liquidation arrangements in 1883 (London Gazette 9 January 1883). In the 1891 census he was listed as an auctioneer and valuer.
Can anyone find more information and estimate the price of this object? Thank you all in forward :)
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You seem to have a lot of information there already. To determine value you should take it to antique dealers and auction houses and get some feedback from them. They are the ones that know the dollars and cents. See if there is something like it on ebay. I'm sure that others here will find similar pieces for sale here and there. They are really good at that. It looks like it could be a valuable piece if it is authentic. Very nice.
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Very nice antique item , irration41 .
Thanks for posting all the clear images !
The only thing that appears to be non-antique is the attached hanger .
The mystery that exisits , in my opinion , is who made the item within the frame .
I wouldn't remove the backing to find out , at this point in time , as doing so really might devalue the 'complete unit' as it stands (not always the case , though) .
Could you please post the dimentions of the plaque ?
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Agree....the hanger doesn't go along with the piece!
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Thanks for the answers. Even though I have not much knowledge about this type of stuff, the hanger also seemed inappropriate to me...
It measures 36cm in length and 30 cm in width.
"The mystery that exisits , in my opinion , is who made the item within the frame ."
That's exactly my thoughts. Since the company that framed this artpiece worked as restorers, this might be even older than the 19th century. However, I can't even imagine how to get any more info on it...
Would removing the hanger be for better or for worse?
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As to the hanger , I'd just leave it as-is , for the moment , unless you're the one who's attached it .
I think your porcelain is worth researching a little bit .... perhaps Chris M. (a porcelain expert) might just drop by the forum & weigh in on this one .
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Don't worry about the hanger. We have a painting that was painted in 1893 and just had it cleaned and repaired along with the frame. They put new hanger wire on it and metal clips to hold the painting in the frame and the painting is more valuable now than before.
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I wouldn't remove it!!!!!
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Just wondering if you know for sure that it is porcelain. One of my books shows several porcelain plaques but they are all painted. There are a few plaques that look similar to yours but are made of ivory and are unpainted. The color is very close to yours.
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This is interesting....Acco rding to the National Portrait Gallery ("Founded in 1856, the aim of the National Portrait Gallery, London is ‘to promote through the medium of portraits the appreciation and understanding of the men and women who have made and are making British history and culture, and ... to promote the appreciation and understanding of portraiture in all media". http://www.npg.org.uk/about/organisation.php (http://www.npg.org.uk/about/organisation.php)
Samuel Pearse 1826-1834, Pearse & Biggs 1834-1835, William Biggs 1835-1852, Biggs & Sons 1853-1856, Biggs & Son 1857-1868
http://www.npg.org.uk/research/conservation/directory-of-british-framemakers/h.php?searched=John+Harris+Biggs&highlight=searchHighlight+searchHighlight1+searchHighlight2+searchHighlight3 (http://www.npg.org.uk/research/conservation/directory-of-british-framemakers/h.php?searched=John+Harris+Biggs&highlight=searchHighlight+searchHighlight1+searchHighlight2+searchHighlight3) So, if yours is truly by Biggs & Sons it was done prior to 1857!
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Hello. Have get any more information about the price of this ? I have same kind of thing but its bigger and there is 4 angels..
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Have you tried contacting a museum near you?
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Hello. Have get any more information about the price of this ? I have same kind of thing but its bigger and there is 4 angels..
Have you any images of yours ? The original post was over three years ago
Would have like to have examined them. Might be parian plaques and therefor could be a few hundred dollars + a piece. Likely to be good quality due to the frame manufacturer
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Here few pictures. And no I haven't yet asked from museum...
And the size is about 60x50cm.
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ok I just gotta say it, which angel--the one on the bed or the pictures....she's a cutie.
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That really is exquisite. Might be Sevres or similar quality but to be sure i think it would have to be examined out of the frame. I think i would probably refer to them as putti or cupids, not angels
For pricing, where abouts are you ?
And can you check to see if there's any writing on the steps, lower left ?
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Well, well, well...after a bit more sleuthing
The plaque is by Francois Duquesnoy, Paris in 1892.
So you're looking at $2,000-2,500, although an auction house might prefer it a bit lower.
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Sure is,, isn`t it Greenacres !!
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No there is nothing in the stairs and nothing text anywhere so is it just a cheap copy? Does Greenacres means copy or fake ?
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Can you take a close up pic of the stairs ? Also a pic of the whole back.
There are modern copies but they are slightly different to yours, which looks like an original i found online.
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I try to take pictures later this week, but there aren't any text in the stairs. And I think I have to take the back away to see it there is something in the plaque's backside.
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Ok here's some more pictures... I think that this is just somekind of cheap copy... ?
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What's the history behind it ?
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Don't know just bought it from local auction to my mom and wanted to know is there any value for this...
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What is your location in the world ??
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I'm from finland.
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You should take them to an auction house for first hand appraisal then. They don't look like the modern repros i have seen online.
There are also two reasons why someone would use that type of frame - because it was of the same era as the plaque, or a seller wanted to intentionally deceive a buyer.
The modern copies have slight differences in the detail whereas yours looks like the originals, although they tend to have Duquesnoy's name on the steps.
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Where did you find pictures from modern copies ?
I found the original plaques also from internet and noticed that there is the name on the steps...
Do you know is there any value for modern copies ? Or can you say any value for this one ?
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Value depends entirely upon the age of the plaque which is difficult to confirm without handling it.
Having looked at the modern replicas / copies there are differences, yours appears identical to the original apart from lacking the name. However, that image of the back concerns me. Looks quite modern, as does the frame. Either a con job or it's been remounted.
http://www.marbleinspiration.co.uk/garden-wall-plaques/cherub-angel-wall-plaques/showitem-ANGEL4-PLAQUE.aspx (http://www.marbleinspiration.co.uk/garden-wall-plaques/cherub-angel-wall-plaques/showitem-ANGEL4-PLAQUE.aspx)
That's one link for a replica.
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Ok and thanks. Modern copies looks like different material also... And I think that mine is remounted to frame because there are 2 frames...
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That is how the frame should look !! It is not a frame within a frame,, its just the way they are made !!
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Modern staples. Looks like it's been recently adjusted. I would have preferred to have seen an older looking frame given the label.