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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: krickard on May 26, 2010, 01:18:12 pm
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Hey everyone, I just posted this Roseville White Rose piece on Ebay and someone just sent me a message saying that this is a fake and it sounds like I could get into big trouble w/ Ebay. Can anyone confirm this? I really believed this was real Roseville! Thank you
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I'am not so sure it's a fake. that trade mark match' s the era for 1939 thru 1953. we will get some other opinions. just hang in there.
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Krickard, check the Roseville mark on this thread.
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6656.0 (http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6656.0)
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Here's one of the links posted in that previous thread, I quoted one passage that stands out. As well, if you scroll down towards the end of the page you will find the White Rose fakes that are known.
http://www.wwcomponents.net/roseville/roseville.html
"All pieces I have seen have "Roseville U.S.A." (usually very low relief on the USA) or "Roseville" on the bottom, even if they were not marked on original pieces. Initially, the Roseville fakes had a raised ("in relief") "Roseville USA" on the bottom. Apparently, U.S. Customs had a problem with that, so the ones being produced now just say "Roseville", with a space below that word where "USA" would have been. The Huxfords' book lists the various trademarks that Roseville used. According to that reference, "Roseville" (without "USA") was used only from 1932-1937 and only as an impressed mark, never in relief. If a piece has "Roseville" in relief without "USA", I'd say that's close to a dead giveaway that it's a fake, particularly if there's an empty space where "USA" should be. On the other hand, the use of "Roseville USA" does not guarantee that it's authentic."
I'll let others more knowledgeable add their wisdom.
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Check out the pic on this link, mine does look a bit different. But does that mean it's a fake? All handmade pottery would have light differences I would imagine. But I notice the inside of mine is the same color blue as the outside and the one on this link is beige and mine is a overall darker color. http://www.rubylane.com/shops/jpthings/item/JPx203514
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I have only seen the white rose items made in blue/azure - not in the delft blue color like this!
Yours is marked Roseville...but I don't believe it is true Roseville.
I would take out the word genuine from your ad - unless there is an expert out there that can say this is truly an authentic "Roseville".
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Krickard, try this site...http://www.wwcomponents.net/roseville/rosevilleMarks.html
It has a number of real and fake marks pictured. Going by sapphires comments, the roseville marks page, and looking at the pic below with your mark surrounded by known fake marks, I would bet it is a fake. I would pull it off eBay. Not what you wanted to hear
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In my own (uneducated) personal opinion, this......
http://www.dzinearticles.com/articledetail.php?articleid=331
Production dates......
1940 - White Rose
combined with.......
"Roseville" (without "USA") was used only from 1932-1937 and only as an impressed mark, never in relief"
would have to equal a copy. (That's if I read all this right) ;)
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Here is a page showing authentic pieces of Roseville White Rose and examples of the mark.
http://www.ohioriverpottery.com/rose/rosepot05.html
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Amend the description on ebay, point out possibility its a copy & let the buyers make there own minds up. Alot of copies have value in there own right
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Ok that's a good idea, I'll let the buyers decide and tell them could possibly be a copy. Thanks for all your help! I would never want to post anything falsely! ;D
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Just to update everyone, I went back and revised my listing to say it might be a copy and they reported me anyway! So now I feel horrible, I took the listing off completely, but I wonder if Ebay will let me sell anymore? Yuck, I feel like a scammer. I really thought this was a nice piece I found in my parents' house.
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You just have to let them know that you are not an expert in the field. It does say Roseville on it so you put it was a genuine Roseville. As soon as you were told you then researched and amended your item. You have the post on this site to prove that. Can't ask for more than that.
Much better than most....they keep it on and don't care. Proud of your for inquiring and trying to correct it!
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From what I have read on other sites such as Auctionbytes, eBay doesn't care about their sellers. They are the BIG GORILLA and act like it. Good luck krickard!
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dont care puts it mildly, there a law unto themselves.
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I would relist it
Title --- roseville white rose vase
I am listing this fine piece as,
in the manner of roseville.
It is white rose pattern, & there is a mark on the botton (roseville)
please make your own mind up
email me for more pics & info
They cant argue with that,
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I am going to disagree about listing it as under Roseville or "in the manner of Roseville". It is not Roseville. It is a repro/copy. Dealers/sellers that know what they have should not be deceiving buyers on anything. We need more collectors and not more people being duped.
When I walk into a shop and see repros salted amongst genuine items, I suspect everything is a repro or monkeyed with and do not frequent that shop again. Online is no different. My advice is to take the high ground. Put a plant in it and set it in the house.
A few years ago, I listed a Navajo silver spoon on eBay and was informed it was made by a company copying Navajo designs. I did not have the reference that was quoted but I was able to find a copy and verify my spoon was not Navajo. I emailed all bidders, changed my listing to include the new information and quoted the reference book, and sold it for somewhere around $50. If it was genuine Navajo it would have been worth a few hundred. It was still collectible in its own right as a souvenir spoon made back in the 1920s copying the Navajo style. I am not sure if it was originally made to deceive or just as a souvenir with Navajo designs.
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I have to agree with Waywardangler, but thank you for taking the time to suggest that. I am however disappointed and offended by this guys comments. I am not a dealer, my mother passed 6 yrs ago and I am only trying to help my father clear out his basement and make some very much needed extra money. I would never try to screw anyone. What a angry, sad little person.
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I'm with waywardangler on this one , except with a personal twist ...
I'd write an ad that went something like :
FAKE ROSEVILLE HEARTBREAKER !!!
I mistakenly listed this item as a "Roseville" !
Due to my error in researching this handsome little item , I've relisted it , along with my apology to anyone else who'd either identified (or mis-identified) it as an authentic "Roseville" item .
Despite any opinions to the contrary , I did not intend to mislead anyone , and I fear this little mistake has damaged my excellent reputation on Ebay .
Please take this heartbreaker off my hands & take advantage of my embarassment !
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Yes, that would be the way to relist it fancypants. Krickard, I understand you being upset about the rude email you received. Some people have no class and some actually do surf listings just to send flaming emails. They must get some kind of sick joy from it. I do hope you understand that I was not thinking you were actually trying to dupe buyers. I did add on to my post above about my personal experience with a similar 'fake' item I sold. It takes many years and handling many objects to get a feel of what is right and what feels like not so right. Many of us (myself included) are still on the learning curve.
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That is a VERY creative listing Fancypants! I never would have thought of that myself. Waywardangler, this has been a great learning experience and I am just starting to learn how all this stuff works (and how vicious people can be) thanks for your recommendations! ;D
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Krickard you have shown your self to be and honest man. you can't do any more then that. this type of material is made to decieve & it does. even the expert's are fooled.
Yep even the experts at Sotheby's & Christies are known to be thrown for at least a while so your doing fine.
So just jump in join the family here at Antique Shop.
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It seems , to me , that you've been the receiver of a critique/rant (email) from someone who has a 'Napoleonic Law' take on such things ( the reverse of 'innocent before proven guilty' ) .
Courtesy is becoming a bit less common than in earlier days , IMO .
The semi-anonymity of the internet does tend to embolden some less thoughtful ( &/or 'short-fused' ) folks to post vindictive/false/hurtful/etc. messages & such .
I think it's just important to keep an even keel & both oars in the water , when dealing with such issues .... but most of all , I don't try to 'return the favor' .
And a big ditto to what D&b said !
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One very important point krickard, make sure you block the nasty emailer's user name (if known) from bidding on anything you post on eBay.
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EXCELLENT advise guys, I will do that! Thanks! ;D
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Totally agree wayward! I have sent information to sellers in the past - giving them information about their wares marked incorrectly (more often than not it was to show them it was not what they thought and was worth more). I had 2 that blatantly overlooked it - and fortunately the items didn't sell.
By-the-way....looked at your listing and your seller information. You are not marked negatively in any way!