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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: woodsy pete on October 20, 2010, 07:07:42 pm
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Wondering if anyone would happen to know the approximate age and value of my grandfather clock. It's been in the family for generations and came across the ocean from Germany. It still works good and keeps time quite well. Any help would be MUCH appreciated! No identification tags, numbers, stamps or words.
Thanks in advance,
Pete
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1539.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1541.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1546.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1543-1.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1547.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1542.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1544.jpg)
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I am by no means a expert here, but just had to say wow. Really Wow, this is sure to be a good thread.
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I agree with ironlord that this is a very nice clock! No markings on any of the metal clockworks? Some makers put their marks on the internal plates that are not visible unless it is taken apart. I do not understand why they would do that. I think the font style of the numbers around the roman numerals may be a key as to age.
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Thanks for the compliments! After work today I'll pull the top off again and get out the flashlight and small mirror and see if I can get into the mechanics of it a little deeper to look for id marks.
Pete
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Good idea Pete a little round dentist mirror with the long handle would help. beautiful piece!!!!
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from the pics my gut feeling is
German round top floor clock. circa 1900, oak veneer over pine case made for export
These were made by the thousands by many manufacturers at that time period. Back then there were so many manufacturers, and sadly, many went unmentioned and just disappeared into obscurity. A lot of these clocks were not marked by their manufacturer,
If yours was it would have a trademark on the back of the movement. Gustav Becker, Keinenger and Obergfell, were typically marked, along with Junghans.
Schwenningen was a large manufacturing area, and many unmarked clocks came from there.
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One thing I failed to mention (on purpose) was that someone has scribed "1838" into the round metal plate at the top of the face. It looks to have been done with a scriber and is far from professional looking. I have no clue when this was done or by who or whether it is the actual date it was built. I left this detail out as I didn't want it to throw anyone off as again I have no idea when or who added this.
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Beautiful clock!
Gingertom, I'm not clear on where you are seeing veneer. I don't see it, can you elaborate please? It also looks older than 1900 to me. I don't know if 1838 is the date, it could also perhaps have been added to commemorate an anniversary. Perhaps a 25th or 50th, which might put it at about 1888 or 1863?
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Tales, I think it is because the back of the front door (in the open position shot) appears to be pine while the front of the door appears to be oak. Veneer in those days was much thicker than it is now.
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Would more pictures be helpful? Let me know what to capture and I'll post them in afew hours.
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@Wayward: OK, I thought it was solid oak with walnut colored stain.
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I'm not sure that Tales might not be right. There seems to be some solid oak there... but the pictures could do with being a little clearer.
Follow this link, it looks very much like yours
http://www.windibank.co.uk/auctions/Lot625-E-Bilbie-Chewstoke-8-Day-Striking-Longcase-Clock.asp
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Here's one pic from the site
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This pic looks like dark walnut stain on oak to me, very similar to an antique oak table and chairs that I have: You can see some drips on the right of this picture, unless I'm not seeing this correctly. (Please correct me if I'm off-base with this one) :-)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1547.jpg)
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Tales, I tend to agree with you. I do not see anything other than oak on the whole piece. I was commenting on what gingertomantiques thought would be veneer. Even the backboard looks like oak to me.
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I keep looking at the face of the clock, That look Antique to me, Not the expert but the patina and just the look. Is it possible to get a good clear shot of the hinge and the hardware holding it to the wood, may be a clue here to help clear up the age.
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I agree Wayward... I don't think Tales is wrong on that point. That backboard does look solid oak to me, even the seat board, and this, I think, was probably was a very nice clock in its day, and is certainly worth having as a serious restoration project (although over on this side of the pond the price of long-cases is not as high as they once were, nevertheless still are valuable). If Pete could find a name on the back of the mechanism then that would certainly help.
I'm fairly confident that his clock is contemporary with the one found for Bilbie, possibly even a little earlier than that example. For me it just looks 'right', even from those photos, and I would certainly give it house room.
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Here are some more close-ups, hopefully they'll help. Sorry about the quality of the pics but they've all been shot after dark and the lighting in my house is obviously abit dim for this sort of stuff. I believe that the entire cabinet is made of oak and I don't see anything that appears to be wrapped in veneer. I included a close-up of the back panel which is for sure solid wood, not plywood.
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1576.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1578.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1571.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1582.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1583.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1588.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1591.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb212/bostie5o/IMG_1594.jpg)
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Hi Woodsy,
The new pics certainly do help, if only to confirm that it is an honest piece. What Gingertom was suggesting was that the main frame was basically pine with an oak veneer, not that it would have been made of plywood. However, at that time, it could easily have been far more expensive, and required a great deal of craftsmanship, to have started with a pine base and veneered it with oak ... far cheaper and easier to make the whole thing from oak, which was more abundant then than now.
It has been through the wars in places, and would require a bit of restoration if you planned to sell it on, either by you or the buyer, but if you plan to keep it (I certainly would), with a bit of time and effort you could have yourself a beautiful clock there.
It does seem so strange that someone would have made such a bodged job of scratching a date on like that, especially in such a prominent place.
I'm no expert, so I couldn't say whether it does date from 1838, but it could quite easily be, and there are so many similarities, in style, between yours and the Bilbie, right down to the style of the chapter ring, that I would wager that they are contemporaries, and not that far apart. Fashions in clocks are the same as fashions elsewhere, cabinet makers will copy what is popular at the time, but a particular style will remain in fashion for only so long. The only other reason for similarities would be that it was a reproduction, and I'm 100% certain that it isn't.
Good luck! A nice piece.
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Here are 2 that I've found on the net that seem to be quite close to mine in appearance and build. One is an Andre Sauveur and one is a Baylis Jno...Both are from the 1700's oddly enough.
http://www.antiqueclockspriceguide.com/pages/clock7482.php
http://www.antiqueclockspriceguide.com/pages/clock5893.php
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Superficially, the Baylis certainly has some similarities. It would be nice to have a few more images of it.
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The hardware looks good. Neat old hinges that match the handle on the door. The more I see of the details, the more I'm inclined to believe that 1838 date. A good, reputable clock repair shop could probably confirm it for you, and if the clock hasn't had regular maintenance it would be good to take it into a clock shop for a tune-up. According to the clock repair place I use, they should be cleaned and any worn gears replaced about every ten years or so to keep them running for the next generation. I spent about $100 on a tune up a few yeas ago. It costs a bit, it is a small investment spread out over ten years. Which brings up the fact that it is possible that the mechanics of the clock may not be original or may be only partially original, since they do need repair from time to time, gears wear down etc., so keep that in mind if it turns out that the mechanics are later than 1838.
Way cool clock you've got there. Love it! What a treasure! :D
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Seems to me to be a bit of an amalgam of various parts , with some interesting cabinet details .
One simple (& not too scary) 'test' is to remove the hands , weights & pendulum , then unfasten the clockworks from the board they are attached to .
A close inspection of the board under the clockworks will reveal weather or not there was a different clockworks installed previously (look for more screw-holes & 'seating' marks in various places there) .
The mortise for the lock on the cabinet front door seems to have been made for another lock , previous to the current one .
Some of the repairs that have been made to your unit seem less skilled than others .
I'm happy to hear that your clock keeps good time , BTW !
The hammered-tenon portions of the clockworks are an indicator of a less-than-'top-end' quality works - high quality clocks that I've seen through the years tend to be precision-machined throughout , although there are exceptions where a designer/clockmaker takes such short-cuts in 'striker' assemblies .
All in all , I'm glad you've got a working survivor of an earlier time , woodsy pete !