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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on November 30, 2010, 02:06:53 pm
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I'm thinking about making an offer on his cabinet today and I was curious what you all think. Does it appear to be from the 1820's or could it be a 1920's repro? I did look at the method of construction and it looks 1820's but just thought I'd ask you guys. Also, with shipping being $75, what do you think is a fair offer for it? Thanks!
http://cgi.ebay.com/BEST-c1820s-LIFT-TOP-COMMODE-CABINET-EARLY-ORIG-PAINT-/270660831933?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item3f04a48abd
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OK, I am not much on furniture styles but for what it is worth, it is not from the 1920s. Those side boards are 1 board wide (about 15"). That is probably virgin timber. The dovetails are handcut and wide. I love the mustard paint inside! I wish the whole thing was mustard paint. Is the outside finish original or don't you care? A regular, common oak commode from the 1920s goes for around that price around here (Midwest). I guess I would offer $375 shipped. What is the worse the seller can say...no? JMO.
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Well, I offered $250.00 for it. I'm sure they'll come back with a counteroffer but hey....it's worth a shot. I've been surprised before. :)
I'd love to have something that old, the price is pretty good even at full price. I'll let you all know what happens. I wish it still had the mustard paint, too. But I guess I'd be happy with any finish!
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Nice! Love the legs!
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I love the legs too and would like to know the style name and time frame. I was trying to figure out where I had seen them before and it was in Marcy's FIL's bookcase
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7824.15
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I remembered Marcy's post, too. That's why I was thinkin' 1920's and wanted to make sure it wasn't a later repro. I normally don't like that leg style but I do like the primitive look of this one. :)
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Would look great with an enamel basin sitting on it, wouldn't it Hosman? ;)
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Yes, it would! Or maybe a piece of cobalt glass. :)
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While I'm thinking about it, thought I'd ask about this one too. I want to make an offer on it but the 2 screws are just killing it for me. They make me nervous. I could see one being replaced, but both? Similar items from this time period go for at least $300, usually more. I suspect this one is so inexpensive because of those two screws. What do you all think? I want it badly, but not if it is a reproduction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310272242615&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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What is the difference between wrought iron and cast iron? I was at the auction at Pac Gallary a few weeks ago. A pair of cast iron candlestick holders (described as devil in the catalog) sold for close to $300 and the bidding was spirited... It could have been more $$ as my memory is poor and I didn't write it down but I remember I was :o Never saw them up close but they were on the smaller side (less than 10").
So I'm no help, just giving you perspective ::) Altho... I would want to know what makes them think it's 18C. That's kinda gutsy to just throw out there for no good reason....
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Wrought iron has been "wrought" or worked, cast iron has been poured into a mold. I'm not sure about the 18th century date either, it would probably be one of those things you would have to see in person to get a feel for.
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Yeah tales, I would have to see it. It's the correct style for the period and looks to have a good patina. I just think that patina can be faked too easily on iron. I was going to offer $90-$100. I have to ask myself that burning question, "Would I pay that kind of money for a brand new reproduction?" Just in case it is new, ya know?
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I do not know anything about wrought iron objects but I do not like their return policy...
"We guarantee each item we sell for authenticity and condition, as represented in our descriptions and photographs for a period of 30 days after the date of purchase.
Returns: We offer a seven-day return privilege. All returns must be announced within 7 days (upon receipt of item) and must be made in compliance with our return policies (listed below). Items being returned must be packed and shipped in the original packaging and box."... "However, If the item’s condition is as it was represented in the listing, but you are not happy with your purchase for whatever reason, we’ll be able to refund the purchase price (but not the shipping/packing costs) less a 20% restocking fee as long as you let us know within seven-days upon receipt of the item." ??? So their guarantee is really only for 7 days and they still get to keep 20%? What happened to the 30 days and authenticity guarantee? After you receive it and find out it is not 18th C, they still keep 20% and you pay return shipping to boot?! I would not buy from this seller no matter what. JMO.
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I was completely confused by their policy too, wayward. I'm not understanding what they are trying to say. They do have a 100 percent though, but I should go read through what people have been saying. If it were truly that old, I'd pay full price for it. I just have no way of knowing.
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Here is what they are saying...Buy this for $144.99 plus $25 shipping and if you do not like it, notify us within 7 days of receipt and we will refund you $115.99 after you pay return shipping in same box and packing. So for about $79 [$29 (20%) plus $25 orig shpg plus $25 return shpg] you would have the pleasure of buying it and then returning it if you do not like it. That is not a great guarantee in my view.
After looking at their store, I now see where their policies were formulated...years of rubbing elbows with Sotheby's.
By the way, what happened with the original commode? Did the seller counter or accept your offer?
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While I'm thinking about it, thought I'd ask about this one too. I want to make an offer on it but the 2 screws are just killing it for me. They make me nervous. I could see one being replaced, but both?
Instead of the 2 screws, I would be more nervous about this, to wit:
and the welding on one "joint" is a little cracked. Otherwise very good
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guesses late empire/pillar & scroll, second half 19th century.
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Yeah, I guess I'll get the candleholder out of my head. I'll wait for one I am more comfortable with. Primitive iron items make me nervous as it is, it's easy for someone to forge iron and sell it as something that is several hundred years old. I think I'll only buy an iron/metal item if it is properly hallmarked with an identifiable maker's mark.
No response yet about the commode. :(
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No response huh, I think $250 is fair depending on where you are located. This style of furniture was normally veneered so i doubt the finish is original. It stayed popular until the turn of the 20th century so there is quite a bit of it available and very reasonable priced as well.
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I totally believe that if you don't get an item....it is for a reason. Down the road, you will get the one meant for you! So, it is yet to see!
I like using Talesof as a perfect example...the items she has shown us that she has refinished were far from "perfect" and she could see the potential. With her elbow grease and TLC she brought out the life of her pieces and bonded with them (probably more ways than one on the bonding! LOL). Now they are keepers for sure!
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Thanks KC, I'm having a wee bit of trouble convincing my hubby that the battered, split antique wooden countertops are going to undergo a Cinderella-like transformation and become an awe-inspiring focal point in the kitchen. He was also raising his brow at me over the Chinese laundry sinks when we tried to get them out of my friend's basement last weekend, giving me the "Are you sure you know what the heck you're doing?" look. But after the Hoosier, he's gotten very good about trusting my instincts when it comes to old stuff and despite his misgivings, he's been wonderfully supportive of my addictions... Oops I mean endeavors!
I've lost out on some things that I still ache over sometimes. Worst one was a bowl painted by a sailor with a scene from the stranded Franklin expedition (remember the 19th century sailors frozen in ice?) I also lost out on a battle participation medal awarded to one of Nelson's crewmen that I wanted for hubby (who is a big fan of English naval history) I lost that because I had changed my Ebay password and neglected to change my auction sniper password to match it.
I've also passed on some neat things that were just too overpriced to be reasonable. One was a gaudy yellow fringed chair that had been owned by a brothel madame and included a whole binder of paperwork on her to verify the provenance of the chair, including a shipping manifest. I just couldn't shell out the $400 or $600 (don't recall which) she was asking. The other one that really hurt to pass up was a guy who has a whole cache of letters, many of which were written by my Adams ancestors, who are not historically significant people. However this guy is convinced that these letters when in conjuction with the rest of the collection which were written to a Massachusettes doctor are worth $2000 and will not sell copies or individual letters. I kinda felt like my familys history was being held hostage on that one.
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Looks like he still has my family's letters for sale. (not surprising, LOL) Here's the listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390127437631&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2Fi.html%3F_nkw%3D390127437631%26_in_kw%3D1%26_ex_kw%3D%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_okw%3D390127437631%26_oexkw%3D%26_adv%3D1%26_udlo%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200%26_fpos%3DZip%2Bcode%26_fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd%3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390127437631&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2Fi.html%3F_nkw%3D390127437631%26_in_kw%3D1%26_ex_kw%3D%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_okw%3D390127437631%26_oexkw%3D%26_adv%3D1%26_udlo%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200%26_fpos%3DZip%2Bcode%26_fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd%3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1) I just emailed him again to see if he's in the mood to budge with the economic downturn being what it is. I could see paying $200 to recover family history, but 2K for thirty letters of no historical value to anyone but family is ridiculous. Even my ancestors would be appalled if I did that!
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Woohoo! They took my offer. Didn't even counteroffer. See, it never hurts to try. I offered over $100 less and they took it. I'm excited to get it, I just hope it doesn't actually take until January to get here and they just put that date range to be on the safe side. I'll let ya'll know when it gets here. This thing better be pre-civil war or I'll be pretty upset.
Tales, those letters would be an amazing piece of your history to have. But you're right, it's a ton of money for family letters that are only important to family. He's priced them so high because he knows they will pull at SOMEONE'S heartstrings. Why doesn't he have pictures?
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YAY!! You got it!! Wooohooo!! Post some pics when it arrives, OK?
Yes that's exactly right, this guy is hoping our family will break down and buy them or that a museum would be interested. We won't, not at that ransom... I mean asking price! ;)
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WHOOT! Congratulations hosman......always worth a try (in this case, definitely) ;)
Can't wait to see more detailed pics when you get it. Sure would go nice with my old bureau, you'll likely have yours in 'show' condition before I ever do.
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I forgot all about yours Sapphire! I knew I remembered another piece like it on here. They match pretty darn well. Didn't you salvage yours from a fire? I think I'll go find the link.
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http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7488.0
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I decided to try asking the letter seller if in light of the recent economic downturn if he'd considered adjusting the price down from $2K. Here is his response. I wonder what planet this guy is on?
"i'm sorry but i am not reducing prices and may in fact raise prices to reflect the current market trends.
there is no economic downturn on truly valuable historical one of a kind relics of the past.
best regards,
ben"
I think I should have let Hosman do the asking!
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I decided to try asking the letter seller if in light of the recent economic downturn if he'd considered adjusting the price down from $2K. Here is his response. I wonder what planet this guy is on?
"i'm sorry but i am not reducing prices and may in fact raise prices to reflect the current market trends.
there is no economic downturn on truly valuable historical one of a kind relics of the past.
best regards,
ben"
I think I should have let Hosman do the asking!
Too bad you couldn't dig up some 'family history' of his and list it........for double what he's asking for yours >:(
Personally I think he just enjoys being a dumbass jerk (sorry, about as ladylike as I can get)
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LOL you took the words right out of my mouth Sapphire! Your idea is incredibly tempting.
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That's insanity tales, he will never get that price and you know he didn't pay close to that. Sooner or later, he'll realize that nobody is buying them and he'll have to come down on the price. What makes him think he can raise the price if he can't even sell them at the current price? ??? How long have they been listed? I'm sorry tales, that'd be so awesome to own.
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No use lowering yourself to his level.
I sure haven't heard the document market rising....except for exceptionally historical/famous immediate families/people! No disrespect Madame President Talesof!
One day he will find that lowering them will get him money whereas what he has now is paperwork and no money!
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I remember that discussion on rare victorian that sappire's link refers too on late classical/pillar & scroll and most often refered to (incorrectly) as late empire. It was written by Hollie of hollie & andrew who write a monthly column in MAD (maine antiques digest) titled "the young antique collectors". They also have a blog by the same title
http://youngantiquescollectors.blogspot.com/
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In your opinion Jacon, when do you think this cabinet was made? I know the pictures aren't great so it's a bit hard to tell. Do you think it's pre-civil war? Seems like you know your furniture, so I'd appreciate your opinon. When I get it, I can look more closely at the hardware and look for any markings.
Tales, did you tell him that they were your family members? I think that even makes him more heartless if you did. Even a greedy man will offer to lower them a little bit, just to get them sold. But he'd have to lower them a lot. Just curious if he cared at all...
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Another informative page with links to examples......
http://www.buffaloah.com/f/fstyles/lateclass/lateclass.html
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Hosman, well, i know alot about a little (early american 1620-1820) where most furniture folks know a little about alot but i would say your cabinet was built in the second half of the 19th century, 1850-1890. It's difficult to offer alot of info on pic's alone but its pretty clear its late classical/pillar&scroll aka late empire. This style was popular for a long time so there is alot of it around, also, it's not "in" at the moment so it offers good value for those that like this style.
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My point exactly KC, these ancestors are not famous or historically significant and there isn't even anything of genealogical significance in the letters. I even checked last time to make sure he hadn't mistaken the John Quincy Adams in the letters for the presidential one and he said he hadn't. He says he thinks a historical society will want to buy them for "posterity". I just wished him good luck with that and said to get in touch if he decided at some point that he could accept $200. Now I'll quit hyjacking Hosman's thread! ;)
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here is the link sapphire posted that gives a pretty good account on the origins of this style written by Hollie
http://rarevictorian.com/2009/06/empire-furniture-isnt-always-empire-furniture.html
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If that's true Jacon, I have no desire to have it. If it could be post-civil war then it's not what I'm looking for. I know that sounds crazy but I'm not looking for later pieces, I'm trying to get rid of the later items that I have to make room for older pieces that I really want to collect. I bought it because I thought it was worth that price to me. It may truly be worth that much to someone else but I wouldn't have paid that much unless it was 1820's. The big problem I'm having is that so many different sites have so many different dates for periods, none of them can seem to agree. This one says up to 1830. ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_style
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That's an informative link. But even it says up to the 1840's. You mentioned up to 1890's, did they make them in this style that late?
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LOL, oh dear, so sorry it's not what you wanted. One of the good things about the WEB is theres alot of information available and, one of the bad things is, some of that information is not correct. Empire or Classical (1800-1830) is basically the same form as late classical, the main difference is the earlier period has lots of carving where the latter has little or none. Take a look at this link for some Empire, i would note that this style can get pricey in a hurry particularly if built by a noted maker like Anthony G. Quervelle
http://www.philaantiques.com/exhibit/2007loan.pdf
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You mentioned up to 1890's, did they make them in this style that late?
Yep, sure did, even later.
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If you follow Jacon's link, there's a second link within it that classifies furniture like yours as "Late Classic" or "Late Classicism" and takes you to this page which gives a date of 1835-1850. Still well before the Civil War.
http://victorianforum.com/antique-furniture-attributions/1855-empire-sofa-please-help-with-details!!!/msg1601/?PHPSESSID=76303d10e51bcb3d7a67a41741905bce (http://victorianforum.com/antique-furniture-attributions/1855-empire-sofa-please-help-with-details!!!/msg1601/?PHPSESSID=76303d10e51bcb3d7a67a41741905bce)
It then gives an additional link to this article, which also places the range as being early to mid-1850's. I think you're preferred range with this one Hosman.
http://www.worthpoint.com/blog-entry/late-classicism-antiques-not-empire (http://www.worthpoint.com/blog-entry/late-classicism-antiques-not-empire)
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classical/empire is 1800-1830 (lots of carving & hand made), late classical 1840-1890 is the same form, just no carving & machine made
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Once you get the piece in hand and can take better pictures we will be able to offer more information.
The style was used well into the late 1800's so it can be a late piece. Still...let's wait and see your treasure!
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Another point about old furniture, I wouldnt get hung up on the "age" of a piece. Lets face it, they made junk in the 18th century just like they do today. Age is just a number, the main thing is, does one connect emotionally with the piece or not, just because its old doesnt mean its valuable. The point i am trying to make here is, it doesnt really matter style wise whether it was built in 1840 or 1880.
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I suppose everyone has their personal beliefs and feelings about antiques. I feel differently, maybe because I'm a beginner and I don't know much. I'd rather have a beat up table with a leg broken off from the 1700's than a gorgeous hutch in beautiful condition from the 1880's. The older, the better in my opinion. 40-50 years makes a huge difference to me, maybe more so than the average person. I guess I'm kind of obsessive about knowing the true age of an antique. It makes a big difference to me if an item was in an American's home during the revolutionary war or if it was used on the battlefield in the civil war. To many, it's how the antique looks, it's condition and it's value. To me, it's the history attached to that item. I love primitives and I want them to be as old as possible.
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Well, thats fine, one can pick up an 18th century (1700s) tavern table for instance for a couple hundred dollars, on the other hand you can pay tens of thousands for the same style, same age type piece. There is a depression on in antique "brown furniture" these days so no matter what style or age you seek, there are plenty of good buys around. You wont find them on ebay much though, register with the auction houses that sell this kind of stuff, pook & pook, garths, etc. and look through their catalogs, both past & present online. You can get a sense of what sold and for how much and whats about to sell with estimates on what the house thinks its worth. Read MAD ( maine antique digest) its the bible of early american furniture buyers, sellers, auction houses, they have online subcriptions.
http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/index.html
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I would add, folks collect old furniture for all sorts of reasons, history is a big one so no need to be shy about why you collect. I collect because i have always been fascinated with the construction details of early american furniture. I can spend hours with the piece turned upside down, drawers set aside and 1000 watts of light on the matter at hand, wonderful way to spend the day actually. Still, the pieces i collect i have an emotional connection too, when one first looks at the piece, it's either there or it isnt, if it isnt, i move on to one that does. HAPPY HUNTING!
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I would add, folks collect old furniture for all sorts of reasons, history is a big one so no need to be shy about why you collect. I collect because i have always been fascinated with the construction details of early american furniture. I can spend hours with the piece turned upside down, drawers set aside and 1000 watts of light on the matter at hand, wonderful way to spend the day actually. Still, the pieces i collect i have an emotional connection too, when one first looks at the piece, it's either there or it isnt, if it isnt, i move on to one that does. HAPPY HUNTING!
Where were you when I was laying on my back with a gooseneck floor lamp trying to look for marks under my sideboard ???
I so agree about collecting for all sorts of reasons. I just have an emotional attachment to the 'older' stuff, mainly because I was surrounded by it in my relatives homes. For some reason I have a special affinity for late 1800's/early 1900's pieces.....likely familiarity. And as most everyone here knows I'm a sucker for sad cases. :D
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Where were you when I was laying on my back with a gooseneck floor lamp trying to look for marks under my sideboard
LOL, well, heres the deal on early american furniture, it is hardly ever marked or signed, always has condition issues and original surface is mostly a fantasy, early american collectors must accept these things. Indeed, the worlds record for a piece of american furniture ($12.1 million) is attributed, it's a desk/bookcase built by goddard/townsend (we dont know which one) and we dont know exactly when either, lol.
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okey dokey, i am trying to load a pic (my first ever here) so lets pretend this works out. Below is a tavern table built in connecticut around 1750, it has a single board pinned pine top, the base is cherry with vase & ring turned legs and box stretcher.
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Wow, I can't even imagine owning a piece of furniture that old, so many images pour into my head of the people who could have owned it. For some reason, I'm very attached to the Revolutionary War era and colonial America. Is that yours? If so, lucky!!
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Yep, its mine, at least temporarily, as all antiques are, lol. I have another TT in the den about the same age, same form, same function that i paid $375 for, the conn TT in pic on the other hand was $5000. Why the big difference in price? Well, for one thing, condition almost always plays a big role, the den TT has a replaced top, ditto the button feet. But there are subtle differences that also affect price as well. For instance, the conn TT is cherry, den TT has a maple base, conn TT has turned box stretchers, the den one has box stretchers but are flat, not turned. See what i mean? The point i am trying to make is, you dont have to spend alot of money to get the period, style and look that you are after. On the other hand, if you want an outstanding example (period, style dont matter) be prepared to get out your check book.
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Wow, lucky you! Glad you are here to give us all some insight. What part of the country are you in? Anything made before 1850 is rare in my area and costs a fortune when you do find it. You pretty much have to buy things that old online or in an auction. Washington is a very young state and we don't have nearly as many primitive antiques as the east coast. I thought it was amazing when I found my kitchen table a few weeks ago, and it was made in in 1869+.
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Looking for a pic of den TT, cant seem to find one on this puter, still, its a very nice table & was very reasonable priced at $375. If i find pic later, i'll post it
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I'd love to see it when you get a chance, or any other pre civil war furniture you might have! Trust me, we love pictures around here and showing off everything. :)
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Yeah, good point, you are on the west coast, thats not the greatest location for period colonial stuff but still, with auctions/bidding online now, one can be anywhere and still get good buys.
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ok, I'll post a few recent pieces what i have here on this puter, here we go, boston william & mary dining table i got last winter at an online auction during HUGE snowstorm on east coast, about 1740.
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another, same table
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Oh man, I'm beyond jealous! I love drop leaf tables. Mine is drop leaf but not nearly as beautiful as yours! I'll go take some pics. I think the oldest things I have so far are my flax breaker (1832) and my coverlet (1843). I love them but they aren't nearly old enough for me. But I've been collecting for 1 year, so I guess I'm on my way up the ladder. :)
I do have lots of documents/newspapers from the 1400's-1800's. But those aren't quite the same as furniture.
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Shaker side chair, 1830, Cantebury NH
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Well, you got plenty of time to build a collection. To me, THE HUNT is ALMOST as enjoyable living with the piece itself. I use the old furniture i collect as well, for instance, a chippendale chest of drawers will hold my socks just as well today as it did in the 18th century.
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Last pic for the day, needs restoration, base is missing but i bought this cuz i really liked the paint, dower chest
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Oh man, I'm a sucker for trunks and chests! I have 4 of them, but the oldest is only from the 1870's-ish. That one you have is amazing!
Love the shaker chair. I'm scared to get a chair that old, I feel like they are delicate and if someone sat on it and broke it, I'd be devastated. After I kicked their arse. ;)
I'm most attracted to dining tables from that period. The thoughts of meals around those tables is just fascinating to me. The conversations about the war, the french revolution and George Washington. I can't find my memory card to take new pics, so here's links.
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6457.0
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7840.0
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=7193.0
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LOL, there you go again on that age thing. I prefer earlier things too but mostly because they were built by hand where after 1850 most furniture was built by machine. The circular saw was invented in the late 18th early 19th century by a Shaker sister, Tabitha Babbit, but it really was not a factor until steam power came in around the 1850s.
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The circular saw was invented in the late 18th early 19th century by a Shaker sister, Tabitha Babbit,
I have always thought that was one of the neatest stories ever. ;D ;D
It just proves that someone really doesn't have to know very much about what someone is using or doing ....... to have a great idea on how to ..... do it quicker and/or better ........ and usually with less expenditure of labor.
Ps: Whenever I offer someone suggestion on what they are doing ....... and they reply with: "What the ell do you think you know about it", ....... I tell them that story.
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Below is a tavern table built in connecticut around 1750, it has a single board pinned pine top, the base is cherry with vase & ring turned legs and box stretcher.
Jacon (and others)... What exactly does "pinned" mean? I have read a couple of definitions and am still unclear. My pembroke table has dowels showing through the top which attaches the top to the base. Is this an example? I couldn't see that in Jacon's pic so now I'm confused again - which is very easy to do I might add! Here's the pic of the top of my table showing one of the 4 dowels.... Sorry for the temporary sidetrack Hosman ;)
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n494/bwaltier/225.jpg)
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Jacon I've got a question also. My understanding is that the lathe, although invented thousands of years ago, did not become commonly used until the 1880's and although turned furniture did exist prior to that time, it is very rare and that most turned furniture in existance will date to post-1880. Can you correct me or comment on this?
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okey dokey, i am trying to load a pic (my first ever here) so lets pretend this works out. Below is a tavern table built in connecticut around 1750, it has a single board pinned pine top, the base is cherry with vase & ring turned legs and box stretcher.
OOOOHH, that is nice, Jacon. And you didn't even mention the "breadboard" ends. ;D
Oceans, I think what he means by "pinned" is that dowel pins are used to fasten the top onto the "box" frame ...... like a picture frame box. 4 boards, on edge, with their ends doweled together to make a square. The dowel pins are put into/around the top edge of the frame and matching holes are drilled into the underside of the table.
Iffen I remember Tales has a picture of her table on here ...... but the "pins" in her's extend clear through the top of the table.
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Here's the photos of the pins/dowels/pegs that extend past the surface of the table. These originally would have been flush with the table top, but as the wood shrinks the pegs have to go somewhere and either protrude or recess. These ones protrude:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Dining/Dining6.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Dining/Dining7.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Dining/Dining30.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Dining/Dining31.jpg)
Overall:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Dining14.jpg)
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Yes, pinned top means its attached to table base with wood pins. Turning has been around a long time, they wrap twine/string to the piece being turned, attach one end of string to an overhead sapling and the other end of string attached to a foot pedal.
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So would my table (the maple one) be an example of a pinned top? It has the dowels showing through....
Don't know why I am so dense about this - LOL
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LOL, yep, its pinned. Wood Pins are used in mortise & tendon type construction where they drive in the pin to hold the rail/apron tight to the stile/leg of tables, chests, chairs, etc. Here is a pic for Hosman, Sheraton single drawer work stand, curly maple, about 1830-40, New York. Notice the curved front of drawer? The guy who built this stand saw the comming late classical/pillar & scroll style comming and decided to incorporate it into this sheraton stand. Well dang, cant see curved drawer front very well in this pic but its there, trust me, lol
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Jacon I am aware of that, and that the lathe is actually thousands of years old, but my understanding is that turning was extremely rare prior to the 1880's when it became commonplace. So yours is one of these rare examples?
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Tales, no, thats not correct, turning was happening alot in the 16th & 17th centuries. Furniture, up until the 18th century was built by joiners, not cabinet makers. They did not saw boards much either, it was riven (split) from green wood, planed into boards or turning stock and then assembled into various furniture forms. This form of construction is called frame and panel. For a more complete description of how this was done, check out this site.
http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/
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Actually, once upon a time, when men were men & women and kids sat on stools (lol, sorry ladies,i couldnt resist, i have just returned from an office xmas party)
Chairs are very rare prior to the 18th century, only kings or wealthy men sat on them, most folks sat on joined stools and, those stools were turned.
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Thanks for the link, but I'm afraid I am still kinda unconvinced that turning was commonplace in the 18th century. Big emphasis on the word commonplace. No doubt that it was around then and had been for thousands of years. I'm not doubting the age of your table at all. :) But what I'm reading is saying that prior to mechanization it was out of the ordinary. If anything, I think this makes your piece more special.
Here's a good one on lathe history, looking at it from the angle of the technology rather than craft.
http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/history-of-the-lathe-part-one-reciprocal-motion/ (http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/history-of-the-lathe-part-one-reciprocal-motion/)
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Tales, actually,turning was quite common, almost a separate trade. It was much cheaper and easier than frame and panel construction plus, no carving, another expense.
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OK, interesting.
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Tales, there are only 24 or so known american pilgrim century (1620-1690) wainscot chairs (frame & panel) however, there are hundreds of "turners chairs" that are known. When Wallace Nutting wrote American Furniture Treasury in 1926, there were only 6 known american wainscot chairs. Check out this link, Pilgrim Hall Museum, click chairs
http://www.pilgrimhall.org/F-chairs.htm
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Tales, I just read the entire Stuart King article you posted and for the life of me ( pretty informative article), i dont see any reference to turning being rare prior to the 1880s. Let us think about the 18th century for a moment and consider it was the first time in human history that large numbers of regular type folks sat in chairs and, what kind of chairs were dominate during that period? Windsor chairs, which were turned from the legs & stretchers to the spindles which formed the backs, indeed, about the only thing thats not turned on a windsor chair is the seat. Am i missing something here?
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Now that I search for it specifically, I am seeing quite a bit of turned furniture, tools and utensils from the 1700's on ebay. I think it's fair to say that it was pretty common in the 1700's. I am seeing milk containers and other containers that are lathe turned more often than other pieces. Just go to the antiques section on ebay and type in "lathe turned", "1700's turned" or "turned wood". I guess we learn something new every day tales! Of course, it became much more common in the late 1800's. ;)
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The early lathes were "foot powered" like a tredal sewing machine.
There was a TV series back sometime ago on PBS titled "The Woodworker", or "The Yankee Woodworker" ..... or something similar and was produced at the University of North Carolina. Anyway, the fellow that MC'ed it would make something out of wood bout every time it aired ..... but he only did it "the old fashion way" ..... with the "old fashion tools".
Anyway, in one program he was making a chair I believe, cutting the leg or spindle on a foot powered lathe ...... and was really working up a sweat to "get er dun". ;D ;D ;D
Watching how he done it is how I learned to hand-cut "dovetail" joints. Plus several other old timer "tricks-of-the-trade" which came in handy when repairing older pieces or making quasi repos.
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I believe the show you are referring to cogar, is The Woodright's Shop with Roy Underhill. http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/index.html
He is still on and I have watched some of his shows also. He always uses the old hand tools, foot lathes, foot-powered belt driven machines, etc. Very informative.
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Thanks for that link wayward! Bookmarked! ;)
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Perhaps I'm guilty of making the assumption that it was not widely available to most people. I am extremely wary of anything turned that people claim is 18th century, unless they have some kind of provenance or other elements they can point to to back up that claim, simply because the 1880's where when it became mechanized and turned furniture, like turned Victorian "gingerbread" architectural elements became hugely popularized and turned stuff was everywhere.
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Tales, I think you are mainly talking about machine produced turnings while others are talking about treadle powered turnings and then I think you are correct. I do not think men running foot powered lathes were producing small parts like victorian gingerbread parts because it was too time consuming and not cost effective. Duplicating lathes changed all that. Part after part after part could be turned out and they were all basically identical. Just like machined screws, nails, etc. Sure, they were turning chair parts in the 1700s but the maker spent a lot of time with a calipers to get each spindle the same. Handmade chairs from the 18th and 17th centuries are also going to show certain tool marks in the unfinished portions. That would be the construction parts I would be concentrating on when purchasing early furniture.
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Yes, Wayward you summed it up much more eloquently than I did! Is there a way to tell mechanically turned versus treadle lathe turned by looking at the object? Maybe some kind of wobble or inconsistancy?
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I'm thinking if you had a caliper along and measured different sections of one spindle, on a foot powered lathe turned one you will find some larger and smaller diameters in the same measured spots on the other spindles. On machine turned ones they would be identical unless the master pattern was worn. If the maker did not check the turnings carefully, you could probably tell fatness and thiness differences just by eyeballing it. I would not think there would be any wobble as lathes turn objects round. If it wobbles in the lathe while turning, there is a problem. I haven't tested this theory but it sounds good. Underneath chair seats would be saw marks or hand plane marks or later power planed surfaces.
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These lathes are called "pole lathes" and were used for hundreds of years. These were the lathes turners used until the 1850s when steam power changed everything in woodworking. Below is a link from Peters blog where the pics show how these lathes worked.
http://pfollansbee.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/turning-joined-stool-parts/
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I had a Barnes metal working foot powered lathe at one time and it worked on a treadle. Working the treadle drove a belt that turned the headstock. I do not think a pole lathe would work in turning parts for a Windsor chair. The spindles are too small in diameter and the cord wrapped around the spindle would start to flex it as soon as stress was applied in pumping.
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"The Thames valley in South East England was rich in Beechwood forests and it was here that the chair Bodgers set up their camps, harvesting the wood and turning the legs, stretchers and armposts on rudimetary spring pole lathes operated in the open air. These parts were then sent to the manufacturer to be mated with the seats, made by the Bottomer, and the bent arms and spindles made by the Framer, who also completed the assembly of the chair." http://davidambrose.ca/chairs/chairs.html
It does not say how the fine spindles were turned, but it was not on a spring pole lathe.
The Woodright's spring pole lathe...
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Wayward, The spindles were made with a draw knife & spoke shave after riving the stock into small sticks, the legs and stretchers would have been turned, the seat would have been shaped with a draw knife as well.
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Hosman, did you get your cabinet yet? Can't wait to see some pics!
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I don't even know if they have sent it out yet. They emailed a few days ago to ask for my phone number because Greyhound requires it. I sent them my number and politely asked if they knew if it would arrive before Christmas or not. They didn't write back so I don't know if they sent it or what. I'll take pics when it gets here. ;)
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I stumbled across this painting from Germany dated 1601, it shows a turner working at his pole lathe but whats interesting are his legs. If the artist depiction is anywhere near correct then it indicates turning is about all this guy ever did in woodworking.
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Wow! He would've excelled in the Tour de France also.
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Geeeze, are those legs even possible? :D
She emailed to say the cabinet will go out on Saturday. Bit disappointing, I thought it was already on it's way. :(
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Well, its always exciting to get a new piece, hopefully it will get there soon. Yeah, that turner has got some legs going on there no doubt. I suspect that larger woodworking shops had dedicated turners who sold turned goods to smaller shops that didnt.
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Man, the communication from this seller is very frustrating. It takes them at least 4 days to respond to an email. Anyways, Greyhound called yesterday to say they received it and it will take approximately 7-10 days. :-\
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LOL, OK, IT'S ON THE WAY! Shipping is always a problem with furniture because it's usually the buyers responsibility, i have been using uship.com for the past few years with pretty good results.
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On my way to pick it up. Hoping I like it. :)
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Don't forget..........PIC S !!!!!!!! :D
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Two hours later and the suspense is building up.
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Fingers crossed!!!!
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lol Sorry, had to go to Tacoma to get it and then had to make a few stops. The cabinet is pretty darn cool, in my opinion. Really beat up and rustic but I still like it anyways. Not totally sure it was worth that much money but that's fine. The top was ripped off in transport so I have to reattach it. On the plus side, there is a name stamped into the hinges that I would have never found if the top didn't come off. I can't make out the name but I'm trying to take pics of it. Gotta go reattach the top and then I'll post pics of it. Here's the hinge, I'll take pics of the screws, too. Appears to start with a "C" and end with an "h"?
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Looks like "Clark" to me.
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I did find some references to a company named Clark that made hinges, but so far I'm not seeing that same name imprinted on them like yours.
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I think you are definitely right tales. I wonder if it was a patent or just the company's name. The hinge is not special, so probably not a patent. ???
Unfortunately, the top cannot be reattached because the holes are too big for the screws since they got ripped out. What would I put into the holes so that the screws can be screwed back in?
Here are a few pics, cobwebs, cocoons and all. Super gross inside, I'll have to properly clean it before I could put towels or dishes inside. What was this probably used for originally? A chamber-pot cabinet? (Ew)
If it makes any difference, the are about 100 deep gouges/marks on the inside top of the lid. Not sure what that means...
I'll get a pic of the whole thing in a minute, having memory card issues. :P
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Cut screw....
Oops, sorry tales. Didn't see your response. Thanks for helping with research, I appreciate it!
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Looks like an old screw as you pointed out Hosman, with the typically flat end. Also check out the nice deep ridges you've got going in the grain of the wood in the top photo. That's wood shrinkage. My dining room table with the protruding pegs is just like that. Run your hand over it and I bet you can feel those ridges sticking up in the grain.
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Here's an article showing some Clark hinges that date to the 1870's:
http://books.google.com/books?id=myxEOOgjI50C&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=clark+hinges+old+house&source=bl&ots=fIJauaugXi&sig=DMCFH0BLxVjvkdNYBJHqevMHXWI&hl=en&ei=mPgSTaOYCIH6swOtl7WvCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=myxEOOgjI50C&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=clark+hinges+old+house&source=bl&ots=fIJauaugXi&sig=DMCFH0BLxVjvkdNYBJHqevMHXWI&hl=en&ei=mPgSTaOYCIH6swOtl7WvCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false)
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Now that I get it in the light, these marks all over it are really distracting. I don't know if it's the finish or marks underneath the finish but they look super ugly. :-\
Ohhh could it be from scraping off the original veneer?
I'm considering milk-painting her with this paint to cover it. Bad idea or no? Barn red or mustard.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=280589778051&si=cwgtvqOmS7zeG7E%252Febp7koPohzs%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
All of the Clark hinges I find are late victorian, 1890's. :-\
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Yeah, most of the Clark hinges I am finding are late victorian. Which is a bit irritating. I suppose they could be replacement hinges. ???
I am hoping to find company info, maybe they started earlier but didn't get super common until the 1870's-80's.
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Hosman, to give the hinge screws something to hold in, dip tooth picks in wood glue, stick in original holes and break off flush with surface, let cure, screw screws into the "new" holes and you will have good wood for the screw threads to bite into and hold. I do not know how much of the old hole ripped out when the top came off but you may need to glue more than one toothpick into each old hole.
I cannot tell from the photo but all those marks may be from hand planes. Using milk paint will not cover them up. They will show through on the surface. To tell if it was veneered and then had the veneer ripped off, I would look for areas where wear would be normal through the years and see if that wear is there. I would also look for areas where wear would not be normal. If wear is where it should be and absent from where it should not be, then I think the surface is original and the marks are rough planed marks that were never taken off from final hand scraping/sanding. This is something that cannot be shown in photos but must be done with an actual hands on inspection. So be careful before you dismiss the rough surface marks as a problem. They may be how the final surface was originally left. I would not worry too much about the age of the hinges as hinges can be replaced at any point in time. I would look at the original wood construction techniques and finish to determine age.
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I won't paint 'er then wayward. They are just so haphazard and obvious so I thought they looked like someone didn't care. I'll leave it be. ;)
Thank you for the toothpick idea, too!
I found this hole that was plugged up with gunk. It's a little metal tube/pipe sort of thing that goes from the top section down to the bottom compartment. For water?
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I am not sure if that was a drain or for ? I do not see any water stains in the underneath pic. Maybe the tube was long enough to allow water to drip and not wet the wood around it. Is this some sort of "dry" sink cabinet?
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I'll go get pics further away so it gives a better perspective. ;) ;)
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By the way, searching "empire washstand" or "empire wash stand" brings up many that are similar, but not the same and not much info. I suppose it's a washstand, just trying to figure out the mechanics of the hole because I'm curious.
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The tube looks small to me and would not allow water to drain out very fast. I suppose the basin held a bowl and the drain was just for water that splashed over? I am not familiar with the old use of a wash stand.
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Wayward, good assessment in your #115 post. You covered everything I was a thinking to tell Hosman.
And while I was about to suggest it might be an ice chest that someone took the zink liner out of the wife says from across the room, ...... "it's commode".
So Hosman, don't you dare paint it. To wit:
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I won't paint it, I promise. :)
That top one looks almost exactly the same as mine, does it have straight legs or scroll? Does it give a time frame? It's almost the exact same dimensions. Thank you for your input and time! So, what was the purpose of the metal hole? I believe the chamber pot would go in the very bottom, would somebody actually...use this from the top somehow?
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How the heck did I miss this one soooo cool hosman!!! I have no idea how they used it maybe just put the used chamber pot in it until they would empty it in the A.M. ???
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Yeah, I'm trying to find drawings or something because I understand that they would put the pot in the bottom after they did their business. Just not sure what the point of the hole is from top to bottom. I looked and I was like, "Oh cool, there is a round ring of water stains on the bottom board." But then I was like..."Wait, I hope that's water stains." :P
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Those pictures were scanned from ......
Book II - Country furniture and Accesories -R & H Swedberg
I understand that they would put the pot in the bottom after they did their business. Just not sure what the point of the hole is from top to bottom.
Hosman, don’t even be thinking what you are thinking.
Commode washstands served the same purpose as a simpler table washstand, made like a chest with a bottom cupboard to hold the chamber pot and a jar for dirty wash water. Drawers were added in some models to store a razor, soap dish and towels. Some washstands had a lift top with a well inside to hold a wash basin and pitcher.
http://antiquesfortodayslifestyle.blogspot.com/2010/10/antique-washstands.html (http://antiquesfortodayslifestyle.blogspot.com/2010/10/antique-washstands.html)
Here are 2 more for sale.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/110287247055?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=188955384483&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=WVI8&GUID=9e0fec921260a075f6a58e75ffff8b05&itemid=110287247055&ff4=263602_304662 (http://compare.ebay.com/like/110287247055?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=188955384483&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=WVI8&GUID=9e0fec921260a075f6a58e75ffff8b05&itemid=110287247055&ff4=263602_304662)
http://www.harpgallery.com/showroom/item8270.html (http://www.harpgallery.com/showroom/item8270.html)
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A bit about how commodes were used:
"...A commode’s association with toilet came from night commodes, a 19th century Victorian term for a bedside cabinet with doors. These enclosed cabinets provided an area for storing chamber pots and had a basin and pitcher on top for personal cleansing.
These commodes were found in middle-class bedrooms before indoor plumbing became available. By the 20th century the word commode became associated with toilet, so that today that is the more common usage."
Click here for the full article:
http://furniture.about.com/od/furnitureterms/f/co92009des.htm (http://furniture.about.com/od/furnitureterms/f/co92009des.htm)
And here is a very good description of the differences between washbasin stands and commodes:
"...Besides the hole for holding the basin, there will often be a small hole in which to place a shaving mug. A shallow drawer under the basin area stored razors, soap and towels. The cabinet area underneath is for holding chamber pots, and usually has a small door. Towel bars on the side of the cabinet are also common."
Read more: How to Identify Antique Washbasin Cabinets | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6787541_identify-antique-washbasin-cabinets.html#ixzz18xLaARxR
Click here for the full article:
http://www.ehow.com/how_6787541_identify-antique-washbasin-cabinets.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_6787541_identify-antique-washbasin-cabinets.html)
I think you've got a lovely one Hosman!
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Is that tube threaded by chance? I cant think of what would go there and not be in the way but I was thinking maybe something was screwed in at one point? A water pump perhaps? Just guessing...
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I think it's just a drain hole in case of spills so that the cabinet wouldn't be ruined.
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Ohhh could it be from scraping off the original veneer?
Yeah, that would be my guess, someone had a problem with getting veneer/glue off.
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So, are you disappointed, or do you like it still?
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Thanks for all the info and links, guys!
Yeah, those marks go up, down, around and all crazy, kind of like a little kid with a crayon on a wall. I don't have furniture experience but I don't think plane marks look like that. They at least generally go in the same direction and are thicker. I think? ???
I still love it but I must admit, if I saw this one first, it would be sitting in my house right now. >:(
I'm actually trying to figure out what to sell so I can get it. That is, of course, if you guys think it's genuinely as old as they say. Looks early 1800's to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-AMERICAN-GEORGE-WASHINGTON-WASH-STAND-TABLE-/270679452703?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item3f05c0ac1f
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It looks odd and poorly constucted to me. I do not know any furniture maker that would pick out a piece of wood with such a large knot and place the knot where that knot is placed. I also do not know what type of construction was used to attach the side boards. It looks like a through dovetail from the corner piece? and then the bottom board was inlet so the ends show? That makes no sense to me. Maybe it looks different than the pic shows. And what is with that picture? Why would anyone have that picture inside the doors that open up? So they could wash their hands and have the Father of our country's family and their slave staring at them? I do not get it but then again I do not know anything about early furniture styles. It just all looks odd to me.
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Well, you definitely know more than I do, that's for sure! I think the picture was a replacement for a mirror because a mirror makes more sense. I'll see what others say and do some more research. I just love the patina and the style.
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Ya, don't base too much on my opinion because my wife doesn't. ;D All of my opinions are free and I have many of them. Go with what you like because you are the one that will be looking at it.
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Wayward certainly knows more than I do about construction, but quite a few things shouted out t me as well, especially that piece of wood in pic 8. Overall it just doesn't seem quite right, and certainly a piece I'd want to look over in person before parting with any cash.
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That is the large knot I am talking about, mario. What furniture maker would put that prominent knot (with a crack in it no less) there?
And there is another good-size knot on the upper portion to the left of the left door. Very visible in the pic showing the backside.
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Exactly, Wayward .... This is really a case, in my opinion, for 'caveat emptor'.
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Well, i notice the bottom shelf still has it's veneer intact, the back looks to have been married & added to the front , the drawers sides are new. I would say this is a late empire/late classical piece thats had alot of stuff done to it.
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Ohh I think I see what you are sayin' Jacon. So, the only original parts are the two pillars, the bottom shelf, the top and the drawer front. Maybe somebody later (turn of the century-ish) added the back and those funky doors with the picture. I see it in a very different way now that you point it out. It was originally just a little side or hall table?
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Yep, thats it, this is refered to as a pier table, check out this link for similar forms
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=+Classical+Empire+pier+table&hasimage=true&dtype=gallery&type=complete&fq=&filterlock=&hidefilters=&rows=20
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One good thing about it, Hosman, is the price. If it is what it purports to be then it is reasonable. It's an attractive enough piece, but there are a lot of ? over it, most of which have been mentioned. Plus, without closer inspection the knobs, the hinges and the doors themselves seem not quite right. Jacon's already mentioned the drawer, and it may just be the light but there seems to be a mismatch in some of the woods.
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Yeah, it'd have to be a wee bit cheaper for me to consider it though. With the shipping, it's a bit much for a hodge podge of "stuff." I'm starting to wonder if the sellers know exactly what it is, there's a reason it's so cheap. They would have asked much more if they believed it was all original and 200 years old. They know what they have, and they want it gone.
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One good thing about it, Hosman, is the price.
Agrees, this piece has had ALOT of re-work done to try and change it into something different than what it began as. The base piece probably dates to last quarter 19th century, say 1875-1900, the back/top, not a clue
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I'm starting to wonder if the sellers know exactly what it is, there's a reason it's so cheap. They would have asked much more if they believed it was all original and 200 years old. They know what they have, and they want it gone.
Spot on, Hosman, I think that is probably the overwhelming consensus ;)
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Strangest thing happened tonight with this thing...
So, had my mom over for Christmas Eve tonight. She's not a weird, strange, eccentric or crazy woman. Just your average lady. She walked in and saw the cabinet (which I didn't tell her about) and said, "Oh my God, witches." I was like, "What in the world are you talking about??" She said, "Jess, I have no idea how but the first image that popped into my mind when I looked at that thing was of witches and evil." She's never said anything like that so it kind of bothered me. Can you say strange!
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LOL, i gather mom was not a fan of your cab
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lol Not so much. Said it was cute though. ;)
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Wow, that is a strange thing for someone to say who isn't normally inclined towards such things. Well, as long as it doesn't move from one side of the room to the other during the night... :o
Seriously though, if this cabinet isn't what you really wanted, I'd say sell it to someone who will really love and appricate it and put the money towards one you really want. I get the feeling that you like it's look, but that it wasn't quite what you were hoping for. Maybe Craigslist it so that you don't have to contend with shipping and can recoup more of the cost.
I think what matters most is how it makes YOU feel. If you walk by it and think- 'Gee, it's not as old as I hoped it was' or if your mom's words about it are going to haunt you, then I'd say pass it to someone else. But if you walk by it and think how cool and wonderful it is then it should stay, and I wouldn't worry too much about what it may have been used for in the past. We all endure terrible things and perhaps you're the right person to set it to rights again.
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Your mom's comment would make it more desirable to me.
I love going to the eBay antique category and using haunted as the keyword.Once in a while you'll get a pretty incredible read.If you ever sell it you could relay mom's comment in the description and perhaps increase it's value due to this aspect.Moms are great.
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I really do like it, and I do love it's age, I've just had some "off" feelins about it. I think I just need to find the proper place for it. Plus, I really hate losing money on an item and I know I couldn't sell it for the price I paid. So, I'll fix her and clean her up and it will be fine.
I agree Dean, was a really strange comment. Freaked me out though because my mom and I have both seen ghosts, sometimes at the same time. So, now I'll always be thinking about that comment when I look at it. I'll let ya'll know if anything freaky happens! :P
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I posted a while ago about strange things happening with an ancient Egyptian oil lamp I have which was used during a tomb robbery. My husband and I both had the sensation of having our fingers burned suddenly when we handled it too much. But despite this, I don't get any bad feelings from it. I have no logical explanation for this since I felt it myself and out of all my things, this is the only one I've had this kind of thing from. Ultimately I decided it just seem to want to sleep, so I provide a safe place where it can do that. We get along just fine.
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Definitely creepy tales! But what an amazing piece of history it must be. You should show a picture again, I think I saw it posted a long time ago but still wanna see.
I was crusin' CL and found this dry sink. Mine must be missing the metal/enamel sink part.
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/atq/2222069236.html