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Antiques! => EBay Forum => Topic started by: Dean Perdue on January 08, 2011, 12:01:27 pm
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Hi-
I'm interested in knowing if selling higher dollar items on eBay on is safe.
I know about registered and insured mailing of a item,shipping to a confirmed adress,and screening out out buyers based on the quality and quanity of their feedback.
But what would prevent a dishonest buyer from purchasing a high dollar item, receiving and signing for the package, then claiming the contents were not there and replacing the original item with a copy or item of the same weight and size and claiming they were ripped off and having PayPal stand behind them.
Other than pictures of the seller putting the item into the mailing package (could easily be swapped out so I don't know if this would even give a shread of legit proof) what can be done to verify the contents of a package so this kind of thing doesn't happen?
Thanks for any input.
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There is probably nothing you can do to absoulutely protect yourself against an unscrupulous buyer intent on fraud.
Maybe have a third party, such as a mailing store, pack and ship the item? Then at least there is a third party involved to verify what was packed and the condition it was in when packed.
Unfortunately, there are a few seller horror stories out there and PayPal and eBay seem to back up buyers rather than sellers. If it is over $250, you must use Signature Confirmation so the recipient has to sign. I would rather use Registered Mail but I am not sure if that is covered with PayPal.
In any case, I would use a totally separate bank account and a credit card with a low ($500-$1000) limit and have that for eBay and PayPal. I would transfer funds from PayPal to the bank account as soon as possible and withdraw the money from the account and deposit it somewhere else. At least that would limit your liability.
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Thanks Wayward.
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This:
Maybe have a third party, such as a mailing store, pack and ship the item? Then at least there is a third party involved to verify what was packed and the condition it was in when packed.
Sounds like an excellent plan and probably your best line of defense....
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I even looked into eBays recommended escrow service (escrow.com) but it still doesn't sound like the contents of the package would be verified so I'm still in the same boat. Nothing at all would change except of course paying $178. for the service that would be useless, as I see it, in this case.
I've had pretty good luck so far but after reading seller's unfortunate experiences it became something to worry about.
With some of the real big money items on eBay I can't see how these sellers are willing to take these kind of risk.Maybe they know something I don't.
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You will never have a guarantee when dealing on ebay. Most people are honest, but you run a risk of finding those few that are not if you are dealing in high dollar items. I depend a lot on feedback ratings as reputable dealers can`t afford negatives if they expect people to sell to them or buy from them.One thing that might help is to have a person witness the item and its condition, the packing , and the actual mailing/shipping of the item. At least they could not say it wasn`t sent. Some things would help to have an appraisal before listing. But that is going to cut into any profit you might make. Personally, I think that I would stick with less expensive items on ebay. Deal with a reputable auction house for all the others.
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Thanks Mart-
I wonder if you can refuse a buyer who your just not sure of based on his feedback if its stated in your listing that you have the right to cancel bids based on feeback.
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I think you can do that before but not after, Dean. There are some parameters when you list but I think it is with negative feedback and 0 feedback not just a low number of feedback. What really bothers me, is non-paying bidder strikes do not show up on feedback anymore so a bidder can have 100% positive feedback and still be a non-paying bidder on items. I had it happen to me and there was nothing I could do about it except report the non-paying bidder. Unless they get so many strikes in so many months, non-paying bidders get a free ride, so-to-speak. The only safeguard is to block that username from bidding on one's auctions again. They wasted your time, wasted your auction, and nothing happens to them.
From ebay...http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/buyer-requirements.html
You can block buyers from bidding on or purchasing your items by specifying buyer requirements. You can block buyers who:
Don't have a PayPal account
Have unpaid items recorded on their account
Have a primary shipping address in countries you don’t ship to
Have reportedly violated eBay policies
Have a Feedback score lower than the number you specify
Are currently winning or have bought 1-100 of your items in the last 10 days (you can specify the number)
You can also block buyers based on their user ID by creating a blocked list.
Have a Feedback score lower than the number you specify - not necessarily true. You must select from ebay's set number and the lowest (highest?) is a -1. There is no way that I can see to prevent bidders with only 15 feedback from bidding, for example.
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Like Wayward said you just can`t block a bidder without setting some parameters in your buyer requirements. At least I don`t think so but I have never worried about anything I sell. If I can`t afford to lose it,, I don`t list it. I just do small stuff. Its fun for me, not necessarily a money making thing.
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You can block specific usernames from bidding on your 'blocked bidders list'.
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"If I can`t afford to lose it,, I don`t list it. I just do small stuff. Its fun for me, not necessarily a money making thing."
Even if I can afford to lose a small amount it still riles me when I get ripped off and Ebay seem to be indifferent. I've been ripped off both as a buyer and a seller and came out worst off in both cases.
As a buyer I spotted something that I knew was easily worth between $200 - $300, bidded and was prepared to go up to at least $100. I was really chuffed when I won it for only $35 !!! I paid within minutes of end of auction and waited... and waited. After a couple of days of not hearing anything I e-mailed the seller... and waited... a week later got an e-mail apologising that they'd been away and would have the item in the post to me first thing Monday. I e-mailed 'Thank you' and waited and waited. Week later I e-mailed concerned that I'd not received anything, and as they lived only 10 miles away I was more than happy to collect in person and wouldn't even expect a refund on my p&p. Got a response saying they had been poorly and it would be in the post next day via recorded. I e-mailed them with a thanks, hope you're feeling better and asked if they could e-mail me the Tracking number so that I wouldn't have to trouble them again. I waited and waited.. You've got it, it never arrived and I never heard from them again. Eventually opened a claim against them through ebay, and finally got something in the region of 1/2 of what I paid refunded, Ebay taking the rest in charges!!! This was before they changed the system. The seller held onto the item which they'd sold for a price way under its value and I lost, as I see it, not $20 dollars but possibly as much as $260 as the item was legally mine and stolen from me.
As a seller I had an item up for grabs and made it quite clear in the posting that any buyers outside the UK should contact me first for a P&P quote, and the P&P given was only for 1st Class Recorded UK mainland. I had quite a few items ending on the same day and perhaps should have been a little more vigilant. the item sold (for a little less than I'd hoped for, but not much) the buyer paid immediately and I e-mailed thanking for prompt payment and guaranteed that the item would be in the post first thing next morning. Only then did I realise that the buyer was in India. I e-mailed them to say that they really should have contacted me first, but as a goodwill gesture I would send the item out at no extra cost. It actually cost me an extra £4 ($6) to post it recorded. Even at that the estimated delivery date was anything up to 28 days. I e-mailed the buyer and informed them of this. A weel later I got an e-mail saying it had not yet arrived ... and the following week another (ignoring my replies re length of delivery)... after a month I got another e-mail saying that it hadn't arrived. I tried to check with Royal Mail but they could only track the item within the UK, I had to try to find out what happened at the other end.
By this point I had complained to Ebay that the buyer was able to pay for the item + P&P when they had obviously invoiced the buyer and telling them to contact me re P&P. They denied all responsibility and said that it was up to me and I could have refunded the buyer's money!!! At this point it was too late, and I was advised to refund and await the results of the 'investigation' into the item by Royal Mail. I had and still have 100% feedback and didn't want to jeopardise that. I shall be cold in my grave before I hear anything re the item.... this was 18 months ago!!! So I lost the item and also roughly $10 in P&P. Do I believe the buyer? From his behaviour I hate to say that 'I don't'.
Ebay? Let's hope someone else comes up with some serious competition!!!!
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On the item not received did you read feedback on that seller? Scams like this are occassionally found on ebay. Many times the seller takes a pic off the net and never had the item to begin with. Usually they repeat the same sale over and over using a variety of user names . Some just repeat the same sale over and over with the one user name.
I usually try to see if the same pic/description shows up in other listings. They are not really inventive in some things.
Thanks for reminding me that I need to put USA only on shipping.
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Hi Mart... I did, and he had about 20 positives, but over a long period of time and mainly as a buyer. I don't think that it was a scam, I just feel that he felt absolutely gutted at the item realising so little. The problem for him was that it was incorrectly listed, the photograph looked as if it had been taken with an ancient cell phone, and the description looked as if it had been written by a five year old .. nothing to create confidence in prospective buyers. We live and learn .. and learn ... and learn ...
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I dont normally use Eban due to its firearms/parts,,,,german militaria rules, but as a rule in general when a seller sends payment by whatever means I get online and use switchboard.com or something similar to see if the shipping info they provided and the internet listings match up. Shipping to a different address that listed makes me nervous. If it matches then you have a trail to follow should there be problems.
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Unfortunately many people do not realize that a sale on ebay is a contract and will in most circumstances, hold up in court. If I had been that concerned about its final selling priceI would have put a reserve on that listing. Many people starting out on ebay have no idea what the rules are or what you can do to protect yourself if an item bottoms out. Did you think about calling this seller and trying to work out something on the price. Of course that would depend on how bad you wanted it. He could have relisted with a BIN and still been within ebay`s rules.
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Hi mario, my brain is not quite working today (snow shoveled and more to shovel) but what is P&P (parcel & post)?
I block bidders from other countries (other than North America) from bidding and I also list shipping in the U.S.A. at the listed shpg price as you do. If you pay with PayPal, the first scenario would have gotten you a complete refund. I sincerely hope you left negative feedback for that seller in addition to the ebay complaint.
Unfortunately, there are dishonest, unethical people everywhere and one must always keep ones guard up and limit any losses to an affordable minimum.
What mart says about a contract on ebay is true but at a $35 selling price and a value of $200-300, filing costs would have surpassed that. We have a small claims court here that would work for that and it costs $60 to file, I believe. Not sure if you have something like that there. At 10 miles away, I probably would have had a local lawyer draft a letter explaining the legal ramifications of the seller's actions and threaten to sue for the item plus court costs (if I really wanted it that bad). If no big deal, I would have done what you did and chalked the rest up to a learning experience. I also would have put that seller's user ID in my 'blocked bidder list' on ebay, just to be safe.
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Hi Wayward ... Sorry P&P + Postage & Packaging ... and if you don't have VAT over there (something I mentioned on Tales's rocker thread, I think) , then V.A.T = value added tax (payable on all but essential items), which over here is now 20%, but in Auctions you only pay the VAT on the commission, so it'd be say 15% + 20% of 15%.
Yes, I could have taken it further, but to reflect your sentiments, life is just too short. Curse ... Bash the table ... Kick the point in space where the cat was 2 seconds ago... and then move on ;)
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Does the cat move quickly after the bash because it knows the kick is coming where it is so it had better not be there? ;D
Thanks for the P&P clarification, mario. I knew what VAT was/is because that has been brought up by the insatiable spending appetite of legislatures here. >:(
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I've been checking out eBays seller forums and it just confirms what you guys have said.
There is no shortage of sellers who have been scammed by dishonest buyers looking for something for free and with eBays blessings.Truly amazing to say the least.
Here's just one story of many and the comments echo what you've been saying all along.
I know theres dishonest sellers out there also but I took it for granted that eBay and PayPal would at least try reveiw the facts of each case and try to be fair.
Thanks for your helping me see whats going on.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller-Central/Please-Tell-Me/520253555&start=0
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Sorry about that but thats why I said, if I can`t afford to lose it,, I don`t list it. Ebay is fun for small sellers like me or you if you can take an occassional loss. But high dollar items seem to bring out the crook in people. You can make a bit of money on small things. Stick with insured and bonded venues for high dollar stuff.
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Hi Dean... That is a sad case, unfortunately just one of many that I've read over the past couple of years. Nowadays I rarely use ebay to sell, and certainly would not sell any high value items on it. I still buy via ebay, and will buy high value items, but I will only buy from sellers that I can trust, such as well established companies and even from Texas Unclaimed Properties .. I know my money is safe (well, as safe as can be),
If I were to sell any high value items I would use my local Auction Houses. Once upon a time ebay was so competitive regarding their fees but not any more and I would rather pay the little extra in commission and have the peace of mind.