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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on January 29, 2011, 09:10:37 pm
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How many chests can one person have? I think I need to stop after this one. I fell in love with it when I saw it on Craigslist. I paid $50, which I thought was more than fair for my area. The woman had no idea what it was, she just wanted to get rid of it. It didn't fit much with her decor, she lived in a lavish multimillion dollar home in the woods. I couldn't believe her house! Anyways, I'm trying to date it (not romantically) and was also curious about what kind of wood it might be. I can't tell if it's pine (it seems lighter than pine) or if it's birch.
Info:
What is now the front used to be the back. A replacement lock and escutcheon were added to the new front.
The back has the the holes where the old lock used to be, they have all been filled in with wood dowels.
There is a little plastic tag stapled onto the bottom with numbers. (Museum deacession?)
The replacement handles with new-ish screws appear to be cast iron on a very thin sheet metal base. Maybe late 1800's? Looks like maybe someone bought antique handles and used new screws.
Cast iron and cut? nail replacement hinges.
Rosehead nails. The seller and I both thought it was strange that rosehead nails were used all along the dovetails. Seems like maybe they were added later for reinforcement?
The knots that are in the wood are almost perfect little circles, at first I thought they were dowels.
I hope this one is really old but it seems hard to date...
I have a bunch of pics, so here they are.
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More.
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I like everything about it but the hardware! Yes, I agree the rosehead nails were added later, probably after the hide glue used in the dovetails failed. Nails are easier then regluing. I cannot tell from the photos but is that one board per side? If so, that is an old chest. I would find replacement handles with holes to match the original (now dowels) ones. Simply make a paper template of where the holes should be and carry it with you when you go antiquing. No time rush here as it could take years to find the right old pair. My guess is not birch but fir if it is not pine. I especially like the bottom scroll detail making this more like a blanket chest. I wonder if it was originally painted? nice buy.
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Thanks for your input wayward! Yeah, the hardware is definitely off the mark. Not very flattering. Each side (as well as the top and bottom) are one board. I'll get measurements in a few minutes. It's not quite small enough to be a document box but also too small to be a blanket chest. Kind of in the middle. Trying to figure out it's purpose...
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It's 23"x12"x12" overall. Maybe it is a document box, it just looks big in person...
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Ok, I have one more question. Wayward will probably know. :)
I grabbed the flashlight for closer inspection and this is really strange. Maybe it can help with dating?
The whole thing is covered in these little "fish scales." Rows and rows just like fish scales. They are so tiny and faint, you can't see them without really looking well in bright light. They remind me of the little waves that people doodle when they draw ocean waves. You can't feel them at all, they are too tiny and faint. Does this give a clue about how the wood was cut? My camera can't get them all, but you can barely see some here. I just don't know if any kind of saw can leave faint scale-like impressions in the wood like that. They don't look like circular saw marks.
And I was mistaken about the top and bottom being one board. I thought they had split. They are both made with one board that is 8 3/4" wide and one that is 3 1/2" wide.
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Hey hosman321 .... those marks were made by an orbital sander , I'd say (& a rather heavy grit too) ... if my eyes are seeing what I think they are seeing ....
Cool little item !
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You're totally right fancy, it was a sander. I did realize that the inside was sanded but I never would have thought the outside. I thought the original finish had worn away but it's pretty clear the dark patina was sanded away now that I look at it differently. Kinda sad, the deep ridges in the wood consistent with shrinkage and age were mostly sanded down, but I can still feel them. Even a lot of the shrinkage and popping out in the dovetails was sanded down. So, since it has been sanded down inside and out, would it be the end of the world if I paint it with federal red or mustard milk paint? I do like it's current look, but someone else already sanded away a lot of it's history.
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What a lovely chest Hosman! Even with the sanding it has loads of personality left. Love to see the staining in the wood around the nails and the shrinkage in the wood. Looks like it has a whole lot of stories to tell! Love it!
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Well , although the wood-butchers got ahold of this one , it's got lots of real charm IMO .
I'd guess that 'they' simply retasked a nice old antique box into a 'decorator item' , without regard for its' former patina & slapped a healthy price on it .
I usually get a nice feeling when I see/feel hand-cut dovetails in old wooden furniture/items .
Maybe some faux-painting might be another way to deal with refinishing this one ?
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Since you are dealing with raw wood, you could also mineral oil it first, to see if that darkens it to your liking, then go from there.
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Ohh now that's a good idea tales. I may just leave it be though. I've never used mineral oil on anything, anything special I should know? Are there different kinds?
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If you buy yourself a small bottle of (unscented/pure) food grade mineral oil (@ a pharmacy) it'll be pretty universal for use on woods (including rolling pins/woodware) you'd like to 'moisturize' a bit .... been known to be used for iron items too .....
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Adding a bit more to Fancy's comment- You can pick it up for just a couple of bucks, and it is non-toxic and safe to use on food prep surfaces, which is nice. Just ask for USP mineral oil at any pharmacy. (it sold for use as a laxative) Some things it darkens more drastically and immediately. Other woods are more resistant and it takes a longer time of regular oiling. My wooden bowl soaked it up like a sponge and got a really neat dark shade to it. It brought out a lot of the darker patina. That work surface of my Hoosier has been more resistant and it just has taken time and lots of regular oiling. Different woods seem to react very differently, but I like how everything has looked that I oiled. I've used it on everything from wooden handled kitchen gadgets to the pie safe, and it is more of a subtle thing than staining or varnishing, it just deepens the richness that is alreay there, and it does help to moisturize very dry wood. Love the stuff and have been hooked on it since the Hoosier project.
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/-leZxqyFGXw4e5NcicWvWTB68UWvmC1bBhsCPxXn5baiJPFRmTMwXGdy7JPD5cEIgA7OWpZyDLuuLmkcDsR5YjKL2mvshMWS3tCYSSrX5JqP_hzk2HKU0T3IJAYY7mvDZdk7DqoaCOQl-ZlQ6lUQmfZW5oGhnWRJOi_OAbJFiQ3YaJeZjFKAUIA28bwnhWwB)
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Forgot to mention the tag was made with what we called a "name labeler" or "tape labeler". These were really popular in the 1960's and 70's. They worked by impressing the letters into colored tape, which would turn white as the letter was pressed into the tape. Here's a picture of one:
(http://cfnewsads.thomasnet.com/images/large/830/830682.jpg)
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That takes me back, Tales, we called them 'Dymos'. but I imagine that was probably the make that was available!
Nice chest, Hosman. It has character, and a useful size. If she had such a big home in the woods, couldn't she have found some use for it? Some people are odd, but then that is to our benefit.
Our kitchen table came from an old butcher's shop about 25 years ago, via an auction (despite being a strict veggie I can live with it). A friend at the time who was lodging with us had a better opinion of his skills than nature had actually blessed him with. Result....some beautiful sanding scars over the surface. With time, the table is recovering.... you can barely see the scars with all the cup 'rings' !! :)
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It's 23"x12"x12" overall. Maybe it is a document box, it just looks big in person...
Now when I first seen the picture I was thinkin what I would call it ....... and now that you posted the dimensions I will tell you what I would call it, ..... a Sailor’s or Seaman’s chest.
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Thanks for the advice guys!
I remember those label makers. They were pretty popular in the 90's, too. My mom bought one once when I was little and it lasted about an hour with 3 boys in the house. She never bought refills after that.
I was wondering the same thing about the woman's house. So out of place in the woods. A stream flowed right through the front yard and there was a bridge and garden. Her porch was just like a boardwalk or something. It was just gorgeous but I'd take a big old victorian house over that new one any day! When my husband and I pulled up we both just looked at each other and he said, "How in the world do we find the front door??" It was so long that there were three different doors in sight! So, we just picked one. They definitely weren't friendly folks, even when I said they had a beautiful home and beautiful dog. >:(
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That's a good idea cogar. Small enough to travel with yet big enough for all your papers and personal effects.
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Hmm the history of the city kind of explains the snooty 'tudes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_Park,_Washington
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Oh how funny...
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/r/e/e/Daniel-C-Reese/PHOTO/0006photo.html
They're all gawking at a trunk about 100 years old.
I have also been seeing a lot of 18th and 19th century trunks this size called book chests. Maybe it was for books.
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Would Old English Dark be too much of a change and/or the same as painting? I bought some a few days ago and really like it for most all my furniture. I haven't used it on bare wood tho so results may vary...
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Hosman, there is already a finish on the wood surface because those sanding marks appear. From another site..."We've all been there. Carefully and meticulously sanding a workpiece with a random-orbit sander, going from coarse grit all the way up to 220 or finer. Thoughtfully wiping the surface clean before advancing to the next finer grit. Then to discover - after applying the finish - that there are a bunch of curly scratch marks in the wood. Back to re-sanding after all that preparation. Despite the best efforts, it's almost a given that a few grains of coarser grit will stay along for the ride, leaving the tell-tale marks in the wood. It's hard to see these scratches in raw wood. Then when you apply a finish, it brings out the contrast - including the scratches. But the finishing phase is not the time to discover these imperfections. It's far better to spot them beforehand. There's a quick and easy remedy. After you have sanded up to a medium grit, apply some mineral spirits or denatured alcohol to the wood to show the contrast. DO NOT use water, as that will raise the grain. Use a rag or paper towel, and don't saturate it. Just enough solvent to dampen the rag a bit. Wipe it on lightly and any errant scratch marks from the coarser grit should become more visible. Using the previous grit, go back and sand the area with the marks, brush it clean and check again with solvent. Once free of scratches, advance to the next finer grit."
A clearer pic of what is on hosman's chest...
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In my opinion, this has already had years of patina removed and hardware removed and rearranged so whatever YOU want to do is OK. Milk paint would be a good option in whatever color you like and I would wipe some areas (normal wear areas) down to raw wood so it appears to be natural. I would not use Old English or even mineral oil as that would emphasize the sanding marks even more. I would use an opaque finish to cover the marks unless you are going to sand or scrape the marks off.
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I'm not sure what I'll do to it yet. If I screw up the look by painting it then it will be hard to reverse. And I kind of like the yellow color of the wood. Light colored wood is not my style but I obviously bought this because I liked it.
I used regular old english on it before I went to bed. I tested a little area on the side first, then checked on it a few minutes later to see what it did. It didn't look like it changed the color at all and it removed a lot of dirt. So, I did the whole thing. I woke up this morning and now all those water marks on the top are really pronounced and dark, looks kind of crappy. Oh well, maybe they will fade after a little time. Didn't have any effect on all the sanding marks. I don't think I'll sand them away, I'll just leave them so I don't remove more of the effects of wood shrinkage. If I do paint it, I'll paint it red so that it covers the scratches.
Anywho, what would be your guys' guess on age? I'm thinking the first half of the 1800's? Do you think newer or older?
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My guess would be 1850-1890.
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I don't think it's 1880s or 1890s. The repairs look older than that, 1870s at the latest. The original hinges were also hand forged or crudely cast because the holes are all crooked. It wasn't really common in the last 20 years of the 1800s to still make nails and hinges by hand. I'd be willing to think it was made in the civil war era-1860s but any later than that, no way.
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Obviously, hosman, you are privy to more info because it is in your possession. I did not see mention of the specific type of nail or hinges. This site will help you narrow down and date nails but you really have to know what you are looking at. http://www.journalofantiques.com/Aug02/businessaug02.htm or http://www.harpgallery.com/library/nails.htm
"By 1886, 10 percent of the nails produced in the United States were made of soft steel wire. By 1913, 90 percent were wire nails." http://ezinearticles.com/?Nails---How-A-Simple-Invention-Changed-Our-World&id=610812
That would leave 90% cut nails or wrought nails still in use in 1886. Rosehead nails would be earlier but I do not think those are original to the piece and could have been reused or what was handy. You can still buy rosehead and cut nails today. It would be hard to speculate on the original hinges if you do not have them. I am not arguing with you but I think you asked for age opinions when you already have one that seems firmly entrenched.