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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: dunng on June 01, 2011, 01:15:30 pm
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Ok im new to the site and any help here would be greatly apprieciated, I got this plaque or coat of arms in my fathers estate when he passed away a few years back he peddled alot of antiques and oddities and he has had this thing for as long as I can remember and ive found pictures of him with it from several years back he always thought it was "something" and personally i just want to know what it is, It seems to be made of a rubbery very dense almost like plaster and is fairly heavy really maybe 40-50 lbs im not sure of what it even says on it if anyone knows please share!! But if i could get an explanation of it and even if it is worth anything at all?? Thanks for looking everyone :)
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/254080_10150210222598430_514568429_6997629_3118173_n.jpg)
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Believe this might help you a bit.....The Lion and the Unicorn are the symbol of the United Kingdom.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn)
In the upper left (first) and bottom right (fourth) quarters are the 3 lions of England. In the second quarter (top right) is the Lion of Scotland....but the 3rd quarter is different.....it typically contians a harp of Ireland.....so am not sure on this except that this is a decorative symbol on a decorative piece!
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Believe this might help you a bit.....The Lion and the Unicorn are the symbol of the United Kingdom.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn)
In the upper left (first) and bottom right (fourth) quarters are the 3 lions of England. In the second quarter (top right) is the Lion of Scotland....but the 3rd quarter is different.....it typically contians a harp of Ireland.....so am not sure on this except that this is a decorative symbol on a decorative piece!
Thank you i checked it out although their info seems to be limited it def. is a strange piece that im not accustomed to
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Mario could probably point you in the right direction on this !!! He is pretty regular here !!
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Hi and welcome... can you post some more pics. One of the entire piece that can be zoomed in to make out detail and all the script, and then one of the rear?
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The last section is the fleur de lis, the symbol of France, and often appears on British coats of arms to emphasize the desire to control France -- although, the few times Britain HAS controlled France, it represents that actual control.
The motto appears to be similar to that used by the Order of the Garter, meaning "Shame to him to thinks ill of it." -- but much of the language appears to be missing. It would read honi soit qui mal y pense"
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The lack of an Irish quarter means either this is a pre-Union symbol (pre-1603), or a bit of modern Irish wish fulfillment.
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Does it appear to have been attached to something at one time ?? The size would make it rather difficult to use as a decorative piece. Perhaps it hung over an entryway !!
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Here are the better pics..
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247954_10150211421548430_514568429_7007934_8330016_n.jpg)
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248394_10150211421933430_514568429_7007938_1008157_n.jpg)
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247802_10150211422003430_514568429_7007939_8364125_n.jpg)
Like I said before im not sure what its made out of its pretty heavy it has to be apx. 50lbs..
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I'm really just curious if its worth having appraised or if its a reproduction or something.. I really have no use for it and im not sure I want to hang this heavy thing on my wall anyways lol
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It certainly looks as it it would have hung above an entry or doorway. The all important bit to be able to identify this is the lettering, and I still can't make it out ... could you transcribe it?
At 50lbs it wouldn't have been a prop, and it seems to have some age to it.
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I am curious to know whether this is metal or not, if you tap a spoon on the back side what does it sound like?
Does anyone else think that from the back this looks like molded metal??
If it is I would think that having it appraised would be a good way to go.
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Words that I can tell which is the bottom center and next to it on right
soit qui y pese = "either which is weighed"
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I am curious to know whether this is metal or not, if you tap a spoon on the back side what does it sound like?
Does anyone else think that from the back this looks like molded metal??
If it is I would think that having it appraised would be a good way to go.
I was wondering that as well. It reminded me of molded pewter or maybe cast iron? If it was cast iron it would explain the weight.
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Doesn't make sense if it is "rubber" unless it was a prop for a movie or a recent item! (Oldest son is a movie animator with the "Big Boys" and the props out there are amazing!)
Now, if plaster....could still be a prop....or was on a high ledge/window ledge at an entry. Could just be a display piece....
The blackened back is what makes me feel that otherwise it would have been finished all the way around.
Heighth? Width? Depth?
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@ KC a rubbery substance should not weigh 50 lbs it makes me wonder if the word rubbery was used because it was maybe bent easily??? So maybe pewter, the texture on the back leads me to believe it is some type of metal
The translation that I gave previously is in French but it most likely is Latin and could very possibly be a Family Crest.
Research the Crown as it is not the same as the royal coat
The "Helm" is what looks to be a scroll and the symbol, these are above the crest
The "Crest" is exactly as the Royal coat except the Fluer de lis Yes it is a symbol of Scotland but it not situated correctly on the crest
Then there is no "Compartment" which is usually a flower type thing that the Supporters (Lion and Unicorn) would rest on instead they are resting on the Motto ribbon.
With the thought of it being a Family Crest it would take a ton of work to put all of the Elements together to figure out who but I would first start by having the Latin translated which could easily be done at a local College.
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I would take a magnet to it and then I would scrape a knife point on an inconspicuous spot on the back.That should narrow down what material it is or isn't.
I do not think it is plaster as there would be many chips on the front. I do not think rubbery means easily bent as I have never heard anyone use that term to describe bendability. Lead strips are very bendable and I have never heard lead described as rubbery. Rubbery used as an adjective to describe this was a poor choice of words IMO.
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I was using rubbery as to the density of the material it doesnt seem to be metal it seems to be a very dense and heavy like maybe a plaster or stone type material almost but it appears to have been cast so im not sure?? It seems to be a strong material, it for sure isnt a metal.
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I would guess resin if cast and if it is, then it is not that old.
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This is an odd piece. With that motto, the 3 lions passant x 2, and the lion rampant, it looks as if it is trying to be the Royal Coat of Arms.... but I can't find any reference to one with the fleur de lis instead of the harp. I'm stumped.
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although this isn't the exact same item..it's close, maybe it will help in the search for the right thing :)
http://www.thecollectibleking.com/california/lion-unicorn-coat-of-arms-shield-bellflower_2012079.html
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The Royal College of Arms might be able to help.
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/
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although this isn't the exact same item..it's close, maybe it will help in the search for the right thing :)
http://www.thecollectibleking.com/california/lion-unicorn-coat-of-arms-shield-bellflower_2012079.html
You might be on to something there... I didn't imagine that they'd make plaster replicas for props, as plastic and even glass fibre has been around for so long, and they're more robust. A big lump of plaster that size would weigh quite a bit as well.
I'm not sure how helpful they'll be, but you can't lose anything from following Curious's link.
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The fleur de lis is somewhat unusual, but I understand was often used in Canada where French settlers were concerned. I would suggest some research in Canadian coats of arms.