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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: GreenhornGirl on September 02, 2011, 07:57:36 pm
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I bought this because from a faraway glance (one of those auctions where you can't see much) thinking it might be a vintage Fenton Cranberry hobnail vase. Now I'm not sure because 1) I can't find a Fenton with quite this type of rim and 2) there are no markings on it other than--and this is odd to me--two nails on the inside of the bottom of the glass (inside the glass, you can't feel them) arranged similar to an X. I have never seen nails inside glass like this. Anyone have any ideas on this piece?
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Also only the inside rim appears to be pink, not the inside itself.
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Wow :o I mean Wow :o at first look I would think Fenton Hobnail, but the crimped edge looks different, I just thumb through my 3 fenton Books and nothing like it shows up. I'm still thinking fenton, but you may even have a Piece of Hobbs, they were earlier then Fenton and did some of the orignal Hobnail pattern stuff. I will look around a bit more, but will have to say WOW again :D
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Found one site that has a similiar pattern and they are calling it fenton
http://www.anythingold.com/fenton_blue_opal_hobnail_bud_vase.html
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Thanks, ironlord! I looked in my Fenton book and it looks sooooo much like the Fenton Cranberry hobnail on the body itself. But I can't find one with this size, shape and rim. The nails part is driving me crazy because I can't find anything about it or like it and I've got to think it must've been intentional.
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It is a fenton for sure, found one at replacement in milk glass just like your, but not the right color. This is a bit unusual color.
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Ooo that DOES look like it! Forgot to mention I measured mine at 3 3/8" H and 2 1/8" W at the mouth. I wonder if that one has the nails in the bottom! 1941-1955, they say. I looked in the 1950 catalog here http://www.fentonfan.com/catalog/1950january/1950january.swf (http://www.fentonfan.com/catalog/1950january/1950january.swf) and page 4 has a very similar style but the different rim. Looked in my whole Fenton book plus all the Fenton catalogues available online that I could find but couldn't find this exact style yet.
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I was looking for my Hobbs book, for about 15 min now....I can't seem to find it for some reason....I found the book at a thrift store a while back, and thought....I'll get it...Now i can't find it.....but looks like it is settled that it is a Fenton??
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This one is a bit closer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/expknitter/3882182181/
And Bob I need to get a Hobbs book, I'm a bit jealous ;D
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Never mind I just found the book, and it was a Hull book not Hobbs. ;D I am not a glass pro, but i thought....YAY i can finally make that book useful...but it is Hull...sorry ;D
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.....and Hull is pottery not glass.....so i was way off ;D
If this book were a Hobbs book I'd give it to you...it does nothing for me, and I try to steer clear of glass. Meaning i wont buy anymore of it. I have plenty, but I always stress when shipping it, hoping it gets to its destination safely....
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That's O.k. I don't have a Hull book either, I know who to come to when I have a Hull question.
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Yeah man i'll let you know what i can about it ;D
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LOLOL Bob! Thanks so much anyways :D That one does look so similar, ironlord. Do you have a link for the one you found at replacements.com? I have no idea how you did that so fast, I got like 430 results. I can't get over the nails in the bottom...I asked my parents' opinions, and one of them said "maybe it was a mistake." So of course me I'm like "THERE ARE NO MISTAKES!" ;D I like replacements.com because they often have the pattern names for pottery & china and the dates and whether or not they're discontinued.
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I find the best way to search replacement is to type in the search box. I put in Hobnail glass and just started looking. Also Google images is really good about that just type in Hobnail glass, and once I established it to be fenton I retyped in Fenton Hobnail Glass.
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O.k. Wow I just got what you mean by nail. That is wierd for sure. O.k. I think the artist of this piece was having some fun. O.k. I'm starting to think you have something really special here. I would suggest finding a Fenton Forum on this one. Have I said Wow yet :o
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Oh no problem, I'll look thru it. I got 430 pages of results I meant to say and I was just like wow...you found that fast. No wonder you're a "Hero" member ;)
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Yeah, this one looks a lot like it, but with a different rim...would it be possible though for mine to be so much darker at the base than this? Can that coloring vary? http://www.replacements.com/webquote/FENHOBCRA.htm#6950290 (http://www.replacements.com/webquote/FENHOBCRA.htm#6950290)
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Learned it all here, and since I check this site about every few minutes I near the computer, I have logged myself several hours of reasech in the past three years. believe me it won't be long before you will beat me to the Punch. Beside I'm still not as fast as some of the others here, esp. Sapphire, Windy and a few other, they got a draw that is amazing ;D
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I found the milk glass one you saw I think...it says:
FENTON CRYSTAL Hobnail-Milk Glass
Description: Milk Glass
Piece Name: 4" 8 Point Crimped Cupped Miniature Vase
Piece Code: VMC8P4
Pattern Code: FENHOBN
Price: Out of Stock - 1) Click Link Below, 2) Scroll Down, 3) Request "Find This For Me!"
http://www.replacements.com/webquote/FENHOBN.htm
And the link doesn't go anywhere because they don't have it, just the image of it shows up in the search results. The pattern on the milk glass version says discontinued 1948 (but of course the cranberry one could be a different year...still lookin').
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Colors vary a bit between pieces but not by a whole lot. Most Glass companies you can see the difference in their colors for sure, but the color within a glass company is pretty consisitance. But looking at the fact that you have a rouge artist here that would of had to put the nails in the bottom maybe He/She decided to tweek the color a bit. I am just amazed at this piece of sure.
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Thanks!!! I hope it's something special because I accidentally ended up paying $35 for it. I think I will look for a Fenton forum and see if that might lead to a "lead" too.
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PS LOL @ "rogue artist"! :D
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30.00 is for sure not bad at all, I just spent 35.00 on my new piece of Fenton at a auction, I have a peacock Feather carnival glass compote, it is most beaufitul for sure, but It does not have a nail in the bottom.
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Ooooo a Fenton peacock carnival compote, I'm jealous for sure!!
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Yea it was a cool item, I went to the auction, I did not preview the item, when I first saw it I thought it might actually be a Northwood, cause of the color, but when I got home it turned out to be a fenton. Worth about what I paid for it, maybe a bit more, we will see when I put it up and see what happens. Anyway Here is my new fenton Beauty
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Wow, that is beautiful!! I'm looking in the Warmon's Fenton Guide and the carnival bowls differ in price from $20-7500...that's a big gap! Maybe you should try to pin it down first so you don't accidentally sell it too low. I'll try to look for it too.
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Oh I will be looking into it for sure, This is just a fresh find. Basically I process my items first. I first take picture make a index card for it "For Notes", then I spend a certain amount of time researching it, add it too my turbo lister, and post. I currently have well over 2000 items that I have picked up, I try and go through at least 25 new items a month, would like to do more but still have my day job. So much stuff that sometimes I have to just research for only a few minutes, but on a item like this I will spend 1/2 hr. at least.
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I happen to have several Fenton books. This could be Hobnail Cranberry Opalescent CR I also own some of these peices. I'll keep checking.
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Beautiful find Ironlord!! I just found this great video on you tube of a Fenton factory tour , from watching it I can not see how nails could accidentally have fallen into a mold and would say these were placed in your piece deliberately. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3z03ElkUTI
I did find this article about people making glass at Fenton and keeping what they created, could this have possibly been a way Fenton distinguished a piece made by a person who paid for this class???
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_kw=VINTAGE+FENTON+CRANBERRY+GLASS+HOBNAIL+OPALESCENT+VASE
Here are som samples on ebay.
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ironlord, that's a really good process you have down. I spend waaaaay too much time researching my pieces sometimes. Thanks greenacres! Wendy, you have a great theory there; but if they put nails in the bottom regularly for visitors' pieces, I would think I'd be able to find at least something about it online. I have tried a zillion variations of "nails in glass" and Fenton and have come up with nothing. It drives me nuts when there's a mystery like this and I can't figure it out!
I'm tempted to try contacting Fenton...although they might not even know if it happened years ago by a past employee. I'm also tempted to email the Fenton Finders of Kansas members, who have their email addresses on their site, but I don't want to bother them if they get a lot of people asking for valuation requests. I am more looking for the story behind why the nails would be there, first & foremost, at least.
I requested to join the Fenton Yahoo! group which is the most active-looking Fenton forum I've found, but I'm still waiting for approval.
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Here is a forum that has help me from time to time with glassware, you may want to ask them.
http://chataboutdg.com/
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Cool, thanks, signing up now! :)
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and this is odd to me--two nails on the inside of the bottom of the glass (inside the glass, you can't feel them) arranged similar to an X.
Have you considered the possibility that the "X" marked it as being an "eXperimental" piece?
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and this is odd to me--two nails on the inside of the bottom of the glass (inside the glass, you can't feel them) arranged similar to an X.
Have you considered the possibility that the "X" marked it as being an "eXperimental" piece?
No, but good theory...that would be awesome! Still digging into this one with a couple of forums and hopefully something concrete turns up. I sure hope it's an eXperimental piece! ;D
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I've gotten a decent amount of replies on this piece from glassware & Fenton forums; many amused people and several theories, but no answers yet. I've sent out an email to Fenton, Fenton Finders, and others...the piece is definitely a Fenton (you all were right as usual!) but still waiting and hoping for more answers on the nails.
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I need to bump this one for fentonfrk to see.
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Thank you ironlord! I still have this piece and I am still puzzled about it and haven't been able to find any new answers. One person suggested the worker had some spirits in his thermos that day...another suggested that it was experimental and they knew it would be a throw away piece so someone decided to have a little fun with it. I've been told that pieces that had mistakes (whether intentional or not) were all supposed to be destroyed, but some workers would sneak them home to save them instead, and this may be one of those pieces. I wish I knew the story so badly :-\
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Very cool. I have seen one like this before in the early 80's in Philadelphia. I remember my grandfather asking me to get the nails out of the bottom for him because he needed to fix something. He was always messing with me but all in good fun. I would mess back I remember looking back at him and saying there is only one way to get them out as I pretended I was gonna smash it on the table. I was only a little kid so I dont know who made it but there was atleast one other like it. My moms memory is not good at all but I will ask my aunts about it. One of them might still have it and remember where it came from.
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Still think that piece is super! Someone had a great sense of humor! :D
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This is definatly a Fenton cranberry opalescent hobnail piece. It is called a mini bud vase and they came with 3 or 4 different styles of ruffle edge. The pink color looks good to me, always some variation of color from piece to piece. As for the nails, (and this is my own opinion) i think they are just a fluke accident. I wouldnt read to much into them being there. This is not an experimental piece since it is cataloged in several books. Keep up with the reserch but i dont think it means anything.
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The odds of accidentally dropping 2 nails into a glass mold or the odds of accidentally dropping 2 nails into molten glass in a mold ….. and 1 nail landing on top the other to form an “X” …. as well as both nails being per say “centered” in the thickness of the glass without “touching” either surface of the glass ……………. seems pretty remote to me.
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Agree cogar Did not see any way nails could have fallen into a mold during the videos of the glass makers working at Fenton. GG try and contact some one at Fenton!! 1-800-319-7793 x311 This is a number to reach someone to book tour reservations but maybe they can direct your call to someone who can help. ;)
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KevinB, are you sure that it was a Fenton, though?
fentonfrk, thanks for your input. At first I thought it was just a cool glass oddity, but when I started asking Fenton collectors about it, they were all really excited & intrigued and one group even asked me to bring it to a national convention. When I say experimental piece...I understand that this piece is catalogued, etc. but it had to be invented at some point so I would think there'd be early experimental editions of it that may or may not have been destroyed.
I agree with cogar that the chances of it falling right in the center of the glass thickness in an X and not touching the top or bottom surfaces is really remote. Also I think the nails are longer than the width of the vase opening, so they would have had to have fallen in vertically and then fell into an X horizontally at the bottom where it's wide enough, and directly into the center of the molten glass so it doesn't touch either surface...I just don't think it happened that way. It looks too arranged in there.
Thank you Wendy! I did email Fenton a couple of months ago about it and haven't gotten a response, but I think calling them is an excellent idea. I will try to call them on Monday.
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I have no clue if it was a Fenton but it looked alot like yours. I remember why my grandfather said the nails were put inside. He explained that the nails were put inside as an early anti theft system. That the company was afraid of empoyees stealing the pieces and selling the design to the competition before they could go into production. The nails would set off metal detectors located at the door where the pieces were stored and possibly at the exits to the building. I'm trying to remember how he aquired the one he had. I think he knew someone important that worked at the place and they gave it to him as a gift. When I get a chance I will go through old photos to see if its somewhere in the background and I will ask my aunts what happened to it or if they remember any more info about it.
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Thank you KevinB for solving this mystery. I've been following this along and was really curious since I've never since it before.
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I'm just glad I could actually contribute something useful here. ;D I feel like such a freeloader all the things I've been learning from everyone else.
My grandfather told me his was one that didn't go into production instead they produced one just like it with a different rim.
So what would be better if you had a one of a kind variation that never went into production?
Or if it went into production but you had the first one made?
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Isn't that cranberry opalescent glass Ironlord as well? http://www.rubylane.com/item/686555-08102113/Fenton-Cranberry-Hobnail-Opalescent-Vase (http://www.rubylane.com/item/686555-08102113/Fenton-Cranberry-Hobnail-Opalescent-Vase)
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yea that would be cranberry opalescent Glass
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I got more of the story. My grandfather became fishing buddies with a young man that ended up becoming a famous glass artist and designer. His buddy was hired to do some designs for Fenton in the 80's and one of the Fentons gave him the vase with the nails in it as a personal gift. My grandfathers friend would stop in and check on him once in awhile and one time he gave him the vase. I am going to contact my grandfathers friend (the artist) to verify the story of the nails.
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Very cool Kevin!!
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WOW!! That is an awesome story, Kevin! And it's amazing that you are on this forum and I have this piece and we are able to communicate about it! I have explored many avenues to try and figure out the story about this, so I'm so happy that you read this thread! Do you know the name of the glass designer your grandfather was buddies with? And out of curiousity, does your grandfather still have that vase? Do you know what coloring it was? SO cool! Thank you so much for sharing this with us...keep us updated! ;D I'm still really curious about who made the nails in the vases, how many there were, and really anything else about it!
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If my grandfather didn't use the vase with the nails to mess with me I would of never taken notice to it. The real amazing part is that someone like me who knows so little about antiques and collectibles would be able to tell you why nails would be sealed in your vase. Also pretty good timing when I joined the forum. lol
I remember the glass designers first name and I'm pretty certain I found the right person. He was the only glass designer I could find from the area that did design work for Fenton around the time my grandfather got the vase. I think I better wait until I get a response confirming it was him before I put his name out there on a forum. I don't believe he had anything to do with the vase that was given to him. I think that was just an extra thank you from the owners and I think they were also making room for renovations or something like that.
My grandfather passed away in the mid 90's. I don't remember the coloring that good but I think it was pretty close to your vase. My grandmother passed away also so I don't know who has it now. If it didn't get sold or broken its still in the family and wont be too hard to track down.
I'll make sure I find out anything I can about it for you.
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If my grandfather didn't use the vase with the nails to mess with me I would of never taken notice to it. The real amazing part is that someone like me who knows so little about antiques and collectibles would be able to tell you why nails would be sealed in your vase. Also pretty good timing when I joined the forum. lol
Right, that's exactly what I was thinking! What are the chances? At first I was skeptical...thinkin g either it was a totally different glass maker or maybe even you were messing with me (no offense, but you know, you were a newer member and the forum is anonymous basically and all that...sorry! It's only because I've been accused of being too gullable in the past!) :-[ But now I'm starting to come around and get really excited!
I remember the glass designers first name and I'm pretty certain I found the right person. He was the only glass designer I could find from the area that did design work for Fenton around the time my grandfather got the vase. I think I better wait until I get a response confirming it was him before I put his name out there on a forum. I don't believe he had anything to do with the vase that was given to him. I think that was just an extra thank you from the owners and I think they were also making room for renovations or something like that.
Oh, okay, I totally understand! If you do get in touch with him, could you ask him which of the Fentons gave him the vase, and what they told him about it? Yay!
My grandfather passed away in the mid 90's. I don't remember the coloring that good but I think it was pretty close to your vase. My grandmother passed away also so I don't know who has it now. If it didn't get sold or broken its still in the family and wont be too hard to track down.
I'll make sure I find out anything I can about it for you.
I am sorry to hear about your grandparents' passing. Thank you for being willing to contact the glass designer friend! The reason I asked if the vase was still in your grandfather's possession is because I'm wondering if I may have the one your grandfather once had (that would be entirely amazing), or if there were multiple ones produced. Your grandparents didn't live in PA, did they? Then again, it could have changed hands multiple times...
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I know there were more than one with nails and it was for security reasons like I said. They were new designs waiting for approval before they went into production.
I do love messing with people but I'm not messing with anyone here. I dont know you all well enough.
The thought has crossed my mind that you might actually have the same exact one but I know they made more than one with nails. I remember hearing about the proccess for putting the nails inside but I dont remember everything about it. I just know the person that had to do it was not happy because the difference in cooling rates between the nails and the glass caused quite a few broken pieces.
Yes my grandparents were from PA.