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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: micaela on March 21, 2012, 08:16:55 PM
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Hi, I need their opinion on this Russian icon. He has a certification in Italian.
Regards
Mica
(http://i43.tinypic.com/33o4ges.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/es6ru0.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2ci91r6.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/9pyptf.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/zivko3.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/35beckj.jpg)
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Is there a date on the letter?
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In The latter certifique that this icon date in the midle of 1700. Really I dont sure. For this I ask.
regards
Micaela
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Michaela, I think what KC was asking was is there a date on the letter for when it was written.
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I don't see date.
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Okay, my 2 cents. I have been to Russia many times, and have purchased "new" icons. I do know that unless illegally received THEY DO NOT ALLOW THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY....I and a friend who is an art dealer have had them confiscate items because they didn't believe that they were newer. With all the required paperwork! They can age items amazingly... I had a large oil painting taken that was painted within the year and they claimed it was hundreds of years old because the artist did such an amazing job on it!
Could this have been taken out before that? Yes
Are the chances that it is a fake? Not just Yes but YES, they are a buzz for tourists and sell like hotcakes.
Do I recommend that you take it for a hands on inspection and appraisal? Yes...for if you do have an icon from that time period....it could/would demand some $$ and you need it appraised.
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I'm with KC 100% ...see an expert in icons !
It's really a bit odd for a 'modern' authentic "certification" to be undated ...
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Thank you for their opinion.
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Santo Nicola "Saint Nickolas" 1294, Russian icon,, but his relics are in Bari, Italy !! I think this is something done for the Italian tourist trade !! Thats why it has an Italian letter of certification !!
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Agree Mart...but it appears that some discernable letters on back of wood are Russian. So, Russian artist for Italian Icon? Highly possible these days!
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I believe he was a Russian saint according to what I read !! Now why his relics are in Italy,, I don`t know !! Didn`t read that far !!
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If you go into your old antique guides you will see that icons were obtainable in this country and most of them came from the Orthodox Russian and Greek people of faith and were, and still, are highly treasured as works of art. The fact that there are so many tourist versions does not eliminate the absolute possibility that this could be an authentic icon. It may well be, but I do not see any authority here that can, beyond doubt, disprove it. If I have offended someone I apologize, but, I have seen Russian icons, as rare as they are, turn up at auctions and other markets with absolute authenticity.
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Could someone with high speed read this and see if its the(hopefully) translated version of the cert. letter ??
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvm0222.cs04.seeweb.it%2Fgazzettadelmezzogiorno%2Fbooks%2F120108tara%2F
This was the only one that sounded close!! I waited forever and could get the page to come up !! Might be the wrong one but we can see !!
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Could someone with high speed read this and see if its the(hopefully) translated version of the cert. letter ??
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvm0222.cs04.seeweb.it%2Fgazzettadelmezzogiorno%2Fbooks%2F120108tara%2F
This was the only one that sounded close!! I waited forever and could get the page to come up !! Might be the wrong one but we can see !!
*File could not be found :P
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It says we are sorry but format cannot be found!
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Okay, this is the best translation I could get from the blurry form
"Certificate of Guarantee
UNDISCERNABLE WHAT IS WRITTEN HERE
The same great saint whose relics are venerated Nicola Bari No undicesizo of the century. Piuvenerate was the saint of Russia's traditional two principal maid in calendare liturgical one day in each week dedicated to his memory.
The impressive size icon considerable doubt comes from 'iconontasi of a church.
The particolars stilizunaione the face, hair and beard, direttaments derived from models of Stroganov painters of the end of November 500.
This model, however, is here interpreted apart? 150 years, from one hand to you I feel strongly influence popular. From stesen sensibilith drifts' s bold and juxtaposition of blue-green felt of the hat, the light green of afondo and neck pure yellow with red and brown of the clothes.
The table and a worthy encapio dell'icone like that of the Holy Ghost that they show only the shoulders and tries to put its greatest emphasis personality.
So in this' lcon the viewer is almost overwhelmed by the spiritual form, human strength, the Majesty delcensa together and giving off its face.
The icon comes from central Russia - II half of the '700.
Savo Raskovic
Expert Russian Icons
Member of Loss Adjusters of art
Chamber Of Commerce Rome No. 824"
It never gives information such as where it is from. It isn't authenticated! Not such a legal entity I can find.
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Did a search using Savo Raskovic and his name appears in relation to writing prefaces, introductions to and publishing of art books, co-authoring a book on previously unknown works, etc. Possible this is a legitimate letter, but certainly not in the form we would expect to see, nor with identifying information required to legitimize.
In a biography of Giuseppe Raggio and his works, Raskovic is mentioned under the listing dated 1942 (last on page) which appears to indicate that by the late 70's/early 80's he was deceased.
"From this moment (1942) say that the works of Joseph Ray ended up in the oblivion of art at least until the late 70s when they started to rediscover the art of the Roman countryside by the late Savo Raskovic, tireless work Renato Mammucari industrious and gallery owners and critics such as GF Lomonaco, G. Belardi and after, others."
Somewhere in the search I saw mention that he was from Yugoslavia but seems to have worked mostly in Italy.
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Everything that I have seen on him is that he was involved in watercolors and countryside paintings, mainly of Rome/Italy (The Society of Watercolorists). But very little out there about him.
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So Am I getting this correctly,,that he is only speaking of the artwork and not of the date of creation ?? That it is only 150 years old or thereabout but the original icon is much older or the saint lived in the 1700`s ?? I saw that he did mostly artwork and wondered about his certification of this piece !! Didn`t sound like he was certifying the age of it !!
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Could someone with high speed read this and see if its the(hopefully) translated version of the cert. letter ??
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvm0222.cs04.seeweb.it%2Fgazzettadelmezzogiorno%2Fbooks%2F120108tara%2F
This was the only one that sounded close!! I waited forever and could get the page to come up !! Might be the wrong one but we can see !!
Hey Mart, Can you link to the original please? the encoding for the characters is messing it up. Ill try the original in the translator.
E
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I will try !! Hope I can get back to it !! Not sure that was on this particular icon but its all I found that sounded similar !!
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Well found it once and the computer froze,, again,, when I clicked on it !! However,, I went to the bottom of the page and found this,, http://www.russianstore.com/icons.htm
Might be well worth Micaela`s time to send a pic to them if she is selling the icon !! It is in the U.S. !!
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http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/real-face/
This is actually St Nicholas (Santa Claus in other countries).
Most everything I find about S R is that he published a book of watercolors in 1984 about the Countryside of Rome by Ettore Roesler Franz (Rome 1854-1907)! It is found in numerous places all over...here is one in Wikipedia - 5th one in Bibliography.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagna_romana (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campagna_romana)
and again
http://www.ettoreroeslerfranz.com/Bibliografia/BibliografiaHomePage.htm (http://www.ettoreroeslerfranz.com/Bibliografia/BibliografiaHomePage.htm)
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That is kind of what I found,, I think this person was giving his opinion on the artwork rather than the icon as a relic !! That is the reason he spoke about the particular colors used in painting the icon !! Some colors were not in existence in 1700`s. !!
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http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ettoreroeslerfranz.com%2FBibliografia%2FBibliografiaHomePage.htm&lp=it_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
Not very satisfying...
You guys have good control of the the thread. I sort of agree with Mart.
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Thats the best my little brain can come up with !! I just don`t see a certification of age or authenticity in the letter !!
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Totally agree...he was using his "skills" to help sell icons. Big business!
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Yes,, I noticed the prices on the ones in that link I found !! Not cheap !!!