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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: ghopper1924 on June 14, 2012, 04:38:57 PM
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#NOTE# This is a necro-thread with new info. Please be sure to page down to the end.....
Hi there:
I just bought a pair of French vases. They're made of opalascent green glass, with gilt metal cradles for each one terminating in amazing skeletal "hands" above the opening of each vase.
My research indicates that they may be by a company called Muller Freres in France, and were made ca. 1930. They are inkstamped on the bottom: "BSM" in a sort of peace sign, with "France" printed underneath. I believe the ink stamp was from an American importer, quite possibly an east coast department store.
I found one business in California that has a brown version (without the cradles) on their website, but they refuse to write back after a couple of inquiries.
Help! Tell me about these vases!!
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Bump....Is anyone out there knowledgeable about art glass??
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Anyone?
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You never posted pictures of your mark. We cannot verify your mark because we haven't seen it - you just describe. Even then it may not be verified because of reproductions and knock-offs. I have seen many imports of "fakes" over the past 25 years and alot of times a hands-on inspection is required. Does the color/aging seem correct for an item of age? These are all hints/clues to help you try and find out about your item.
In the information below, the mark was under the glaze.
Hereis one that is BSM that is CZECH POTTERY found at Bohemian, Czechoslovakian & Ceský Factory Marks
Part II of IV http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L7YKpTQjGp8J:www.collectorscircl e.com/bohemian/porcelain/marks_table2.html+Mark+for+Brothers+Schwalb+1882-1891.+Schwalb+Brothers+owned+Porcelain+factory+in+Rybare+%28Fischern%29+that+suffered+fire+damage+and+closed+in+1891&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L7YKpTQjGp8J:www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/porcelain/marks_table2.html+Mark+for+Brothers+Schwalb+1882-1891.+Schwalb+Brothers+owned+Porcelain+factory+in+Rybare+%28Fischern%29+that+suffered+fire+damage+and+closed+in+1891&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
"Becher & Stark - Schwalb Brothers - Camill Schwalb Zettliz Kaolin Works Department Porcelain Factory Merkelsgrun Marks
Founded in 1868 by Alfred & Malvine Becher, Merklin, Czech Republic (Merkelsgrun, Bohemia, Austria) 1882 = 1891 BSM Mark used along with 3 other marks.
The factory produced earthenware and porcelain.
Another Site Replacements LTD
http://www.replacements.com/china/BSM.htm (http://www.replacements.com/china/BSM.htm)
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Here is the mark. On closer study I think it says "BDS" in the "peace sign" area. I apologize if my earlier post misled you.
As I mentioned above, because of other research I've done, I believe this mark is not the maker, but rather an American importer's stamp, possibly a department store. Speculation on other sites indicates that these vases may have been made specifically for export, an idea borne out by the fact that the stamp says "France" in English. The origin of the 3-letter acronym has thus far been impossible to trace conclusively; however, the U.S. department store or importer theory seems logical.
I believe the style, color, and aging is consistent with something made ca. 1930.
I've found pictures on the internet of one of these vases in green - like mine - and one in brown, from the online store that won't write me back. Both lean towards Muller Freres as the maker. I just wanted to find out if that made sense to any of you, or if you had a different - and better - idea on attritubution.
In any case, I've never seen one with these metal "cradles," and hoped that one of you would have an idea on value, especially for the pair.
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Any ideas on value? I'm hoping it's in the neighborhood of $1K for the pair.
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Bump for new eyes.
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I have an "Art Glass Book" in front of me. It says " Mueller Freres is known for his etched glass vases with floral scences. His most productive period was 1895-1914." Picture is of an etched vase, 1905 valued at $1500.-$2000., and on the next page shows an etched vase for $$18,000-$25,000. That is not your vase. ;D There's one more section on another page. Let's see on page 134.... nothing of any importance. It explains the quality. It looks like you have a good vase, but yours is not typical of his style they dicuss. They did say at the end of his career he was involved in lighting equipment.
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Thanks Greenacres! I appreciate you going to all that trouble.
My vases don't look like typical Muller Freres, you are absolutely right. I believe the company went out of business in 1936, after temporarily shutting down in WWI. Their later stuff was much more Art Deco; I've seen several examples.
The two examples like mine that I've seen on the internet are both attributed to Muller Freres, but I don't know why. Anyway, thanks so much for the help!
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No problem. I'll check some other books I have later.
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What research have you done to make you believe your pieces are Muller Freres? At first glance they appear they could be Charles Schneider: Art Deco Glass I would search his work & see if you can come up with similar color, style & shape. Could you post a link to the on line store (I've found pictures on the internet of one of these vases in green - like mine - and one in brown, from the online store that won't write me back.)
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Here's their e-mail:
jcstyle@pacbell.net
I can't find the website(s) at the moment, but will post the links when I do.
In the meantime, write them! Maybe you'll have better luck than I have :)
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Here's a link to the store. There's a brown version of the vase about halfway down the page:
http://www.stylefrenchantiques.com/pages/accessories.html
Here's a link to a glass message board thread partially relating to these vases. Check the posts by or relating to "Patti"
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,183.10.html
You'll notice that neither one of these sources reference the metal cradles that you can see in the photos above. Still looking for some idea about value.
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Your vase doen't look like that vase though. That vase is etched. Maybe you need a better picture.
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I did not see a brown vase at all !! I did see an entirely different style attributed to that maker. By cradles are you referring to the stands ??
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Yes, by cradles I mean stands.
The brown (pink?) vase may have a different finish, but the styling is very similar, if not identical. I'd be willing to accept the maker as the same as mine.
Did you examine the other thread as well? If you investigate a bit, you'll see that there are pictures of a green vase like mine. She likens the styling to the brown/pink one also, sans cradles/stands of course.
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It's the vase to the left of this caption, about halfway down the page:
"Muller Frères Lunéville, France (c 1895 - 1914, 1919 - 1936).Désiré & Eugène Müller (trained under Emile Gallé), Up to WWI, produced carved-cameo, acid-cameo, acid-etched & enameled art glass, until closure forced by war. After 1919, production almost exclusively commercial (acid-matted mottled ceiling lights, bowls , shades and vases) . Production ceased 1933, and company finally closed down 1936. This vase is a good example of their later work , simple and decorative with a nice stramline look. Unsigned , size 10 " , good antique condition."
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One of my first posts, from 6 1/2 years ago. Nice to have some vindication after all these years!
I've attached a few photos of my vases as a memory refresher, since the originals aren't there any more.
Anyway, check this out, including the text and photos:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Art-Deco-Glass-Vase-by-Jean-Desire-and-Eugene-Muller-for-Muller-Freres/292822818488?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Db36f517a11834cd9a044be6f1360c22d%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D13%26sd%3D292822818488%26itm%3D292822818488&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A84f47e76-f185-11e8-81d5-74dbd180e75a%7Cparentrq%3A505ea7611670ac3cbf289710ffed346b%7Ciid%3A1
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Don`t you live in Missouri ?/ Did you notice that your seller in the link is also in Missouri ??
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Don`t you live in Missouri ?/ Did you notice that your seller in the link is also in Missouri ??
Yep. They are several hours east of me.