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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: yattypat on July 01, 2012, 02:17:23 PM

Title: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 01, 2012, 02:17:23 PM
Greetings, I have been interested in antiques for decades and somewhat capable of research ;-)  I recently acquired these pieces in a storage auction.  They are very beautiful and excellent shape but I can not find any info on what they are or the signature.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and good will.
Patty
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: greenacres on July 01, 2012, 03:43:15 PM
http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/index_jap_marks.htm I'm checking out this web site.
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: yattypat on July 01, 2012, 03:51:44 PM
thanks greenacres.  gotheberg has a nice site, I have used it before but didn't see my marks on there for this piece.  Do you think they are japanese? Can anyone tell me what these are called or perhaps the era>

Thanks again
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: greenacres on July 01, 2012, 03:57:44 PM
http://www.chinese-antique-porcelain.com/antique-porcelain-marks.html Have you tried this site?
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: wendy177 on July 01, 2012, 04:41:12 PM
Hi Patty Beautiful pieces how big are they?? They are not Chinese or Japanese, I believe the mark is an artist signature/ mark. Also from your photo look to be transfer printed porcelain with gilded metal tops & bases. Very Victorian feel, and for some reason I am pulled toward  thinking they are in the Limoges family/ style.  Your mark seems to have a 5.  s and a fancy K. I think the gilded metal bases with acorn design may hold some keys,  Try searching  transfer printed porcelain with gilded metal tops & bases acorn design (or a variation along those lines) good luck
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: yattypat on July 01, 2012, 05:00:22 PM
Hey thanks Wendy, I have exhausted my search for chinese or japanese lol.  I think you have great points for me to refocus my reseach.  I thought it looked like chinese/japanese character marks.  I forgot to add on my original post that there is also a 56J, a 3 laying in a different direction and another imprint I can't make out.  I didn't even think to research the very specific gilt detail, I am sleepy today lol.  I really appreaciate all the feed back.  There is so much to know and learn, I am always amazed.  I am hoping they are worth something as I deffinetly got caught up in the biding war and paid a wee bit more than my comfort zone for the storage locker I got them from.  But then, no risk no gain either.  Take care
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: mart on July 01, 2012, 05:21:35 PM
Wendy is right !! Not either one !!  Odd signature !!
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: yattypat on July 01, 2012, 06:32:59 PM
The vases are marked with similar artist mark painted on and a 569 stamped in pottery. They measure 13" tall and 7" wide including gilt metal.  The middle piece is stamped 569 as well and measures from top of gilt handle to bottom of foot 11" tall and from gilt handle to handle 14.5".  The bottom and inside of the pieces are a beautiful yellow, so I guess this is transferware???  Still a rookie.  I am also adding pictures of the bottom marks.  There is the 569, and sideways 3, and another small mark I can't make out or recognize.  Again I really truly appreciate any help!!
Title: Re: Chinese or Japanese. Any help much appreciated.
Post by: yattypat on July 02, 2012, 07:39:02 AM
hope the new pictures help
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 02, 2012, 02:30:55 PM
Hi again.  I am wondering if these could be Minton?  Please see additional pictures.  Any help appreciated.  Looks like some marks I found from the 1800's Minton. If anyone has a good reference for Minton let me know.  Thanks again
Patty
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 02, 2012, 07:58:11 PM
http://www.pottery-english.com/forum/ You can always try a post here.
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 03, 2012, 05:18:55 AM
Thank you I will go there.  xx
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 03, 2012, 11:50:25 AM
Let us know what you find out. I'm curious because I didn't see a Minton marking like that.
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 03, 2012, 12:07:55 PM
I will for sure.  I have been looking all day, good grief :-)  Looking at Sevres and learning about brass mounts and ormolu.  Phew! I tried to get into the site you posted but was banned because I typed in a 4 instead of four in the security question area. Will try again later, looks like a good place to post.
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: mart on July 04, 2012, 08:06:07 AM
Also try here !!  Chris Marshall is our resident porcelain expert and site owner !!  Hoped he would pop in on a couple of the items posted !!
http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/resources/fake_n_repro/00.php   This is an excellent site to use if you are interested in porcelain !!
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: ghopper1924 on July 04, 2012, 10:04:53 AM
Let us know what you learn about brass mounts and ormolu. I've got some (possible) Muller Freres glass vases with gilt metal cradles.
Title: Re: Possible Minton? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 05, 2012, 06:16:14 PM
HI,  I think I may have found something.  See attached photo.  It looks like a Luneville mark and from 1880 according to the site I found it on.  Please let me know what you think.  It is a K and a G
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 05, 2012, 06:22:39 PM
Here is the site I found the mark at:
http://infofaience.com/en/luneville-marks
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 05, 2012, 07:58:43 PM
I did a search of Lumeville Pottery. If you check the images it's not right, as I search French Potteries that came up from that I saw Thoune Pottery. Check that out.
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: mart on July 06, 2012, 08:05:16 AM
I wish Chris Marshall had taken a look at this one !!
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 06, 2012, 09:07:31 AM
Hi all, I am sticking to the Luneville for now.  I think it is a K and G which stands for Keller and Guerin.  If you google Keller and Guerin the images look more like my pieces.  This is a tricky one.  I have also seen a few with the similar stamped mark that looks kinda like a C and r, or something.  I have not found any pieces with my same K G mark.  Only saw the mark on this web site: http://infofaience.com/en/luneville-marks.
SO HERES A KICK.  I sent pics to a few auction houses.  Bonhans got back to me and is forwarding to their porcelain expert and this morning Keno auctions asked for more images to have Leigh Keno (Antiques Roadshow twin) himself look at it.  LOL I feel kinda like a celeb.  :-)
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: mart on July 06, 2012, 10:21:09 AM
Let us know what you find out !!  I am curious too !!
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 06, 2012, 10:21:20 AM
That's great and so cool! I saw the faicence. It is closer. Good luck! Maybe you made a be score ;D.
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 06, 2012, 09:01:40 PM
I came across this preview of a book on Luneville, Keller & Guerin.  Check out the third one down, far right. I've copied, cropped and rotated it for a closer look.  Difficult to read the print but am seeing something about the 'production of Saint Clement' and 'after the mark for the KG' as well as 'after (appears to be) 1892' .......... relying on my long, long ago French lessons from junior high  :P

http://www.lepuitsauxlivres.com/produit-la-faiencerie-de-luneville-1786-1923-keller-guerin-en.html

http://www.lepuitsauxlivres.com/DataPuits//downloads/Produit/1295006379_3224303.jpg
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 06, 2012, 09:22:01 PM
Another site attributed this mark to Taxile Doat (1851-1038) who worked for Sevres Pottery from 1877-1905. A comment on the photograph by a Paul Arthur in 2010 states "The signature is not Taxile Doat, but Keller et Guerin at Luneville.
Kind regards"

http://chicagocraftsmanblog.com/category/pottery-sevres/

http://chicagocraftsmanblog.com/2009/05/taxile-doat-pottery/#comments
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 06, 2012, 09:31:58 PM
OMG I think I found the closest one yet!   :o hehe

http://www.french-antique-dealers.com/item/49814/luneville-faience-cachepot-by-keller-and-guerin

Although the K and G are not at the same rotation as yours I think you can feel pretty safe with the Keller and Guerin  ;)


Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 06, 2012, 09:40:08 PM
And another.......

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10987434_pr-keller-and-guerin-luneville-gilt-and-cobalt-vases

"Pr Keller & Guerin, Luneville gilt decorated cobalt pottery vases, crowned lion rampant decoration with overall fleur de lis, bottom with a gilt KG conjoined mark, after 1880, perfect condition, 13 3/4" tall"
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 06, 2012, 09:45:42 PM
One last blurb before I head to bed.........

http://www.oldandsold.com/pottery/france4.shtml

First row, fourth down.....attributed to Luneville, Keller & Guerin


Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 07, 2012, 06:48:53 AM
Sapphire thats awesome thank you.  I am so impressed with this site and all of the help I have been given.  It sure is a lot easier with extra detectives, so to speak, helping out.  I had no idea what direction to take and every comment helped me get closer and just learn more in general. 
That is what I love especially about research, it makes me that much keener about antiques in general and a better eye for that next big garage sale or thrift score.  8) 


I think I am fairly safe to say that my pieces are from approx 1880-1890.  If I don't hear back from Kenos auction soon I am thinking about listing them on Ebay so I can start recooping my money invested.  I am NOT a big Ebay fan so hopefully Kenos will take them. Any help with description would be greatly appreciated.  Does anyone have a description for the flower on the pattern? It reminds me of a thistle???? What is the middle vessel called?

Take care
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: mart on July 07, 2012, 01:15:55 PM
Excellent research Sapphire !!
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 07, 2012, 07:21:26 PM
How will you judge the value to list them on ebay?
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 08, 2012, 06:05:59 AM
yattypat I would call it a jardiniere (came to me in a brief flash this morning, duh). I took a very quick search to see if I could find another Luneville K&G one and came up with this hit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200632985861#vi-desc


These are the times when I wish I hadn't dropped French. :P
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 08, 2012, 06:09:53 AM
I'd bet a bit of money that this is another set, but aside from this picture I grabbed I couldn't enter the site. It's a blog, by invite only.  :(


Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 08, 2012, 06:16:31 AM
Another..... but this one bears the Luneville mark, not the K&G

http://en.expertissim.com/french-earthenware/earthenware-jardiniere-luneville-o12121308.html


**Just noticed on closer inspection there is a KG incorporated in the mark, all I noticed was the larger Luneville.....the 'swirls' around/through the name are actually the KG  ;)
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 08, 2012, 06:22:50 AM
A pair of vases ...... again from the ebay France site. Seems to be a general consensus of an 1880ish date

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Paire-de-vases-de-Maison-Keller-Guerin-a-Luneville-/130726968706?pt=FR_YO_MaisonJardin_Decoration_ObjetsdeDecoration&hash=item1e6fef3d82#ht_500wt_1180


Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 08, 2012, 08:14:52 AM
Thank you Sapphire for solving the mystery. Curiosity killed the cat, lol.
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: sapphire on July 08, 2012, 08:41:34 AM
Thank you Sapphire for solving the mystery. Curiosity killed the cat, lol.

You're so right about the curiosity part greenacres.  For some reason these beautiful pieces have certainly peaked mine.

The Luneville, Kellerl/Guerin and Saint Clement association has furthered that.......what was the actual connection??

Found this little bit.......


Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: yattypat on July 08, 2012, 09:54:04 AM
WOW you ladies are good!   ;) I was a little confused about calling the middle piece a jardinier as it is often used for vases.  I think they can all be called Jardinier perhaps.  Thanks again for all the help.  I have another mystery piece I am hoping to post today.  Can't find any marks on it.  Hopefully you can all help guide me with that piece too.
Patty
Title: Re: Possible Luneville? Help identifying Marks and era. Thanks
Post by: greenacres on July 08, 2012, 09:56:07 AM
Very interesting!