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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: gerspee on July 08, 2012, 03:34:46 AM
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Have these candlesticks made off ivory or bone . There handcut including all the seperat stones in the tower . Who has any idea ? The are said to be France made in Dieppe in the late 19th century .
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Wow, beautiful! :o
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I know and like them to . So who knows more about them or know where to look for more information .
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These appear to be made of bone !! I see the grain going in one direction only !!
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I appears to have something to do with "The Ivory Towers" I think. I'm trying to figure it out.
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Thank for the answers already but bone I have also some Indonesian items made of bone but there not the same lining inside . And in Dieppe the have been using different origins of ivory like walrus and mammoth . So could it be that ivory ? And I hope greenacres will remember what the link is whit the ivory towers .
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It came to me. Ivory? Tower? I put 2+2 together.
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http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Ivory+tower&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4LEND_enUS462US465&biw=1600&bih=773&tbm=isch&tbnid=0WyQfBfp2HCPiM:&imgrefurl=http://nearemmaus.com/2012/05/01/the-ivory-tower-fallacy/&docid=OoZ36WCF3efxDM&imgurl=http://nearemmaus.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ivory-tower.jpg&w=800&h=515&ei=8P35T-mMMqHb6wH-osj2Bg&zoom=1 Ivory Tower. Seems to be religous. Not sure.
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http://www.google.com/imgres?q=antique+bone+candle+holders+shaped+like+towers&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4LEND_enUS462US465&biw=1600&bih=773&tbm=isch&tbnid=S2Tv-c2Pq_LD4M:&imgrefurl=http://fshenemaderantiques.com/indianbox/other-decorative-objects&docid=CjTvrirT24kVwM&imgurl=http://fshenemaderantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/Bone-candleholders1_237.jpg&w=237&h=240&ei=wv_5T-2ZMuTL6wGHjfDrBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=373&vpy=145&dur=251&hovh=192&hovw=189&tx=112&ty=126&sig=103831250280259051336&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=125&start=0&ndsp=38&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:75
Similar to yours or similar idea.
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Thank you and would be a possibility that the are ivory towers instead lighthouses . There is no door in them cut out . So or a mistake or mend to be ? But there also lighthouses like these used in France and Belgium . So difficult to pinpoint them as I think .
And if the are Ivory towers there maybe good presents to the Dutch goverment ;D
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Ivory may refer to the color rather than what they are made of !! These I am pretty sure are bone !!
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Is there anyway to test it to be bone or ivory ?
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gerspee this thread should be helpful to you.......
http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6485.0
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I did the redhot needle test on it and there was no hole or whatever damage on the piece and I put some good pressure on it . Not even seen with a very strong loupe that i have here . But wat will bone do if heated
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http://www.asianartmall.com/refivory.htm This site will help you !! It has closeup pics of the different materials !! From the home page you can click on each to get the close shots and it explains the differences !!
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What are the dimensions?
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Size is almost 23 centimeters and the base is 6 cm widht .
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Can you find a faint seam anywhere ?? Many times bone is laminated together !! Did you check the link I gave you !!
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"And if the are Ivory towers there maybe good presents to the Dutch goverment"
Or maybe an appreciative American, such as myself... ;)
Seriously, those candlesticks are AWESOME!
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I agree also that there very nice . But is there any idea about there value ?
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You are not in the U.S. are you ?? Would be difficult to give an estimate since we do not know your market !! No matter how well items are made,, we have so many asian imports made of bone here that value in my estimation would be $50. to $75. for the pair !! And they are unmarked so that hurts it as well !!
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I would have thought more, but respect is due to Mart! :)
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Awww !! Come on ,, need more opinions than mine !! Hopefully he is not in the U.S. and they will bring more !!!
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Well you could put a reserve on them and see what you get.
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Good idea, Greenacres. Why not put a reserve on them and let the market decide? Of course, the market for most things is pretty soft at the moment, so even that might not give you a true idea about their value.
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Thanks for your ideas about a value . But I dont think I would sell them for that yet . Had tip from a good friend and have also contacted the France museum off Dieppe about the items . The conservator is back the 17th zo maybe he is able to tell me if there made there or where else .
There's also a antique shop in England who has exactly the same pair and he sells them for 1750 Englisch pounds .
http://richardgardnerantiques.co.uk/product/717/2644
So who's right or who is wrong ?
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There is no right or wrong !! Just different markets !! And because a shop is asking that price doesn`t mean they will get it !! Shops have a pretty good mark up and they are usually are way above market values !! See if you can find what a similar pair actually sold for !! Not just the asking price !! What you ask and what you get are two different things !! Another thing is that shop has a pretty good following among its customers. They can sell more consistantly than you or I could simply on their reputation !! You or I as unknowns and with no customer base would have much more difficulty getting the same price as they do !!
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Only one way to find out...try 'em on E-Bay ;D
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Don`t think I would go with ebay !! It has pretty much went dowhill !! I would consign to a good auction house !!
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Agree with Mart! Meet with the individual on 17th and then decide!
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Think that I wil wait untill I know more about the origine . If it would be a dieppe made item the value would be a lot better I think . will let you know if the France museum will give me answer on my questions about them .
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Please do!
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Yes !! Please come back and tell us what they say !!
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Just so everyone knows here since the ivory came up, it is NOT illegal to own Ivory. It is however illegal to sell it, a lot of auction houses here on the east coast have been getting items seized from them. Just don't want to see anyone get in trouble :)
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It is actually not illegal to sell antique ivory. However the laws vary from state to state and it makes a difference if it is raw or worked. Here's an article that outlines some of this:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/chattanooga_200804A10.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/chattanooga_200804A10.html)
A lot of places do not allow the sale of ivory because you have to verify the age in order to verify that it was collected at a time when it was legal.
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I just read back through this thread after being gone a few days. Were you ever able to identify a double criss-crossing grain? There's no need to try more harmful tests if you can see that double grain. Ivory is also cool to the touch almost like a stone.
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I could not find any Tales,, only straight grain !!
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I'm not seeing it in the photos either, but that is great that a hands-on assessment is being done.
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So, without reading all the way back through this thread, double grain direction= ivory?
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Yes it has a cris cross growth pattern !!
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Totally agree with Talesof. It isn't illegal to own or sell ivory AS LONG AS YOU CAN PROVE THE AGE OF THE ITEM!!!!
I have some ivory pieces that I purchase from a museum going under in Russia....wouldn't sell them...but other than my word have no way of aging them if I did want to sell them. However, time is also a benefit...theh look gorgeous but refined in age.