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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Lagomorph on July 12, 2012, 09:09:57 PM

Title: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on July 12, 2012, 09:09:57 PM
My great grandfather managed a small shipyard during WWI. After the war, he traveled to Europe and purchased some antiques. (circa 1925)

This is one of the items he brought back. I've searched for weeks trying to find something similar, but so far no luck.

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Tea_Cup.png)

It's about the size of a shot glass, the base is enameled (blue and lavender with painted flowers) copper, while the leaves are highly worked gold inserts covered with translucent green lacquer and seed pearls, tiny tack welds hold them to the copper. The porcelain insert appears to be hand painted.

I'd like to know what it is and where it's from. Any ideas how I might go about researching from here?
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: greenacres on July 13, 2012, 07:44:12 AM
Can we see the bottom of this, please.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 13, 2012, 08:30:32 AM
It appears to be a sherry or cordial glass !! Beautiful work !! Can we see the bottom and get a close up of the paneled portion with the leaves and pearls !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on July 13, 2012, 02:39:01 PM
I'll try to get my little camera to go the distance.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 13, 2012, 04:27:25 PM
From what I can see it appears to be made in France !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on July 13, 2012, 05:08:04 PM
More pics: Nikon CoolPix S550 on the Macro setting.

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/BoxTop.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Risorgimento.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Stem_bottom.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Detail.jpg)

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Set.jpg)

Someone in Seattle looked at it and I ended up with two tickets to the Antiques Roadshow in August.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 13, 2012, 07:28:12 PM
I think thats where you need to go and tell us when your show is going to be on !!  I have got to see this one !! You said he was in Europe ?? What about Russia ??
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: greenacres on July 13, 2012, 08:11:21 PM
http://www.virtuantiques.net/ProductPhoto.asp?ProductCategoryID=8&ProductsID=807 Similar case. Cups not as elaborate. 1800's French Silver Sevre's Porcelin
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: kidden6968 on July 13, 2012, 08:24:15 PM
They are absolutely beautiful - that's all I can say!!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on July 13, 2012, 10:32:49 PM
Thanks for the replies.  Now I can follow another link.  Woot!

A few months ago I wanted an appraisal for insurance, so I started looking for appraisers. Things are never that simple... I still have no idea how to value it.
Some of the pieces are beat up, some are still fairly pristine. Unusual, at least.

My wife was the collector, until she passed away. She worked hard at it and knew the language and terminology She had a knack for connecting with people.  I'm rather brain-dead without her.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Ian Denning on July 14, 2012, 03:00:22 AM
Hi,

I am intrested in the text and mainly the word "Risorgimento" (Rising Again) 19th-century movement for Italian unification that culminated in the establishment of the Kingdom of Italy in 1861, so I am thinking maybe Italian.

the crest on the box is also very intersting, I will have a look, and let you know
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Ian Denning on July 14, 2012, 03:07:57 AM
check out the Italian royal Savoy line, as their were based in Turin, which is also where "Risorgimento" movement started, it would be nice if they are linked to Italian royals. I will keep looking
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: ghopper1924 on July 14, 2012, 07:09:51 AM
Interesting!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 14, 2012, 07:35:42 AM
I noticed that but the text is not Italian !!  First thought that hit after seeing the text was Russian !!  And I am wondering if this set was possibly taken from Italy during the war ??
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: greenacres on July 14, 2012, 09:26:58 AM
I'm sorry to hear about the death of your wife. My husband would be lost w/o me. My friends always tease him that he better die first!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 14, 2012, 10:37:07 AM
Thanks for the replies.  Now I can follow another link.  Woot!

A few months ago I wanted an appraisal for insurance, so I started looking for appraisers. Things are never that simple... I still have no idea how to value it.
Some of the pieces are beat up, some are still fairly pristine. Unusual, at least.

My wife was the collector, until she passed away. She worked hard at it and knew the language and terminology She had a knack for connecting with people.  I'm rather brain-dead without her.

Yes,, so sorry to hear you lost your wife !! But this is a good place to connect and learn !! Happy to have you join us !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: KC on July 14, 2012, 03:39:41 PM
Cordial set....
Doesn't look fully Russian...can you post a separate pic of the print so I can enlarge please?
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: wendy177 on July 14, 2012, 04:28:30 PM
I believe I have seen a set like this before but can't pinpoint where! Do the porcelain liners come out of the metal goblet base?? The set I had seen in the past did this so they could be removed for cleaning. So sorry for the loss of your wife. But she had beautiful taste this set is stunning!!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 14, 2012, 05:21:28 PM
Wendy, earlier I think he did say something about it !! I know the clips come off for ( I guess) same reason !!  Also, the scrollwork below the crown are initials,, I think CACG, but look and see what you think !!   I have been searching this all day !! 
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: sapphire on July 14, 2012, 06:22:23 PM
Well this one is driving me crazy too :-\

Closest I've come to it is this.....

http://www.burchardgalleries.com/auctions/2002/jun1602/jun1602r.htm

2A   6 LENOX AND STERLING DEMI-TASSE CUPS: Reticulated sterling cup holders and saucers by Mauser with Lenox inserts. Sold with 11 sterling demi-tasse spoons.   175
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 14, 2012, 06:29:51 PM
I found a cordial set similar to that one Sapphire !! But he said this one came from Europe !!  Wish I knew what language that text was !! And forgot to ask how the text figures into this !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on July 15, 2012, 02:10:34 PM
I'll agree, these things are over the top as far as looks.  Somebody was taking one-up-man-ship to a new level, or some guy was pulling out all the stops to impress a lady.

The porcelain cups are removable and from the looks of it, some are replacements, in that they don't exactly match the pattern, paint and size. Oh well, it is what it is.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 15, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
I hope you are going to that Roadshow in August !!  I want to see it !!  Will you let us know ??  I have looked and cannot find anything comparable to your set !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: KC on July 15, 2012, 03:10:44 PM
I didn't read through the entire post as I should have.  My deepest sympathies to you for the loss of your wife.

Am I missing where the sizes are posted?
I don't believe these are demitasse - be cause they traditionally come with handles and have saucers - except for the metal handled holders with glass inserts...and even then they do have saucers many times.  (Traditional Italian and French)

The cut-out style is traditionally called "reticulated".  I do believe this could be referred to as vermeil!

The more I look at this the more it could be Russian....very intricate detail work!  
This is an amazing set!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The High Russian Society didn't throw their vodka glasses and break them...and in fact they had very intricately made ones - often called vodka tots, or vodka tumblers.  
However, they did also have small tea cups....

Keep that appointment!!!!



Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 16, 2012, 09:24:36 AM
I have looked at this and while the floral painting looks French,, the enamel and wire work look post revolutionary Russian  (don`t hold me to my world history) !!  They did some beautiful enamel and wire work !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: KC on July 16, 2012, 06:14:13 PM
Reply from my Russian friends reference the writing...

"Definitely not Russian, nor is it old Russian, per Olga and Zoya.
 I’ll pass it along to a Polish pal who speaks other Slavic languages but it’ll be a few days."
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on July 16, 2012, 07:00:01 PM
Great KC !! Might help to figure out where this set came from !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: Lagomorph on August 19, 2012, 02:24:22 PM
OK, got some news on this.

Went on the Antiques Roadshow yesterday in Seattle. It will be on the air in January. The zarfs were taped for the web site, while a Gold Pendant I have will be seen on TV, if they elect to air it.

They are Swiss made Turkish Coffee Zarfs (pronounced: nef) from the 1830's. Peter Shemonsky valued the set of 12 at $40-60K. I found a single cup on Christies website that sold for $10K after searching for "pearl set gold zarf"

This stuff was passed down through the family, so it just landed in my lap. I'm no expert or avid collector, so there isn't any sense of discovery or accomplishment on my part. I feel darn lucky that it passed to me.

I was looking for an appraisal for insurance purposes and it became quite an adventure and learning experience. The numbers are simply an indication of what the insurance premiums are going to cost me, lol.

Here is the Pendant:

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/BABunny/Scarab.jpg)

Peter said it was a rare piece of sixteenth century art. Most of the jewelry from that era has been "re-purposed" while this one survived intact. I'm just guessing at this, but I think re-purposed means melting it down and remaking something with the gems and gold after it was pillaged or looted, to hide the trail of evidence. That's just my opinion after studying the era and learning what a swell bunch of people were running Europe during the Thirty Years War. It didn't take much to wind up in a noose or under the axe.

I had  the receipt for this from 1923, which helped authenticate it. It was appraised for $50-60K

I explained to Mr. Shemonsky after he saw the two items and that it was inherited, as an after thought, he asked "do you have a lot of this stuff?"

I desperately wish my wife was here to share this experience with me.  She'd know how to handle it.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: msghopper1924 on August 19, 2012, 02:42:21 PM
Holy )*%)(#$%UTUTJR)#$%*_%)(*^&#(!!!!!!!!!

What an amazing story, with an amazing ending! This is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to this site.  It is indeed sad that your wife isn't here for this.
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: mart on August 19, 2012, 03:01:35 PM
Darn near lost my teeth when I looked at that pendant !!  Both your items are amazing and I am glad they turned out to be well worth the search for their history !! Did he say where the pendant was from ??  Don`t know why but still gives me a "Russian" feeling !!
 I too wish you had your wife to share this with !! We are all truly sorry for your loss !!
Title: Re: Looking for some help identifying this.
Post by: fancypants on August 19, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
I too am sorry to hear of the passing of your spouse , Lagomorph .

That being said , you've really got a delightful +++ example of old mine-cut stones in your antique jewelry item !