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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 12:46:56 PM

Title: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 12:46:56 PM
I have a painting that troubles me.  I have no history or value of this painting.
I do know that it is an original and it is older than me.  Not much huh?
Frame is very think maybe about 5 inches cubed.  The frame is about 3 feet long and 2.5 feet tall.
At the bottom right hand corner of the painting is a signature "M. Hunt."   Try to find this and the only one I found was nothing like it.
Please help me. ???
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: ghopper1924 on August 17, 2012, 02:18:17 PM
Very pretty and restful looking, but I'm guessing not old.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 17, 2012, 02:53:41 PM
You may have to give me a while on this !!  From what I can see it is at least mid century,, and typical of  Hudson River School of artists,, also a few from California but will just have to check more !!  Very well done from what I can see and nicely framed  !!  Can you take a closer pic of the canvas itself so I can see technique used !! Need a good clear pic or as good as possible !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 03:50:39 PM
Thank you sooooo much for the reply!
I have asked two professional appraisers to help me and they both have no idea.
I also have a tea cart, brass middle eastern plate with copper and silver, and other things that I am having a hard time placing.  Some I would like to keep some not so much.  Sorry all that to same I am very thankfull!

Here are a few more pictures.  Some are blurry but I figured you could see texture and brush strokes better. 

The only thing my mother told me awhile back ago was something about someone who either helped or was apart of the "Little Drummer Boy" painting.
She was and is a wonderful artist herself but not much on the history of.... ;D
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: ghopper1924 on August 17, 2012, 04:05:29 PM
I believe we may have a winner!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Morris_Hunt

This article shows a picture of "The Drummer Boy," which you talked about in your post.

M. Hunt may very well be William Morris Hunt, brother of the distinguished architect Richard Morris Hunt.

If authentic, this may be old (19th century) after all, and we can all agree that it's beautiful.

Please have a qualified appraiser examine this painting. It may be more than worth your while!!!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: wendy177 on August 17, 2012, 04:23:40 PM
Looks promising !!!  Need to see his signature on his work, Love the photo of his studio in your link ghopper!!! Nice find!!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: ghopper1924 on August 17, 2012, 04:25:15 PM
HA! I go where professional appraisers dare not tread! :)

Seriously, this painting MAY be worth quite a bit of money. Please waste no time in finding out more!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 04:33:59 PM
Will do thank you!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 17, 2012, 07:05:57 PM
I don`t think so !! Wm. Morris Hunt was a different school and was a tonalist painter !!  This painting has vibrant color !! Looked at a bunch of his earlier,, doesn`t match the style !!
Can I ask where you are located and where the painting came from !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 07:34:11 PM
I live in fort worth as far as where it was bought from all I know is Lousiana in a Victorian style home.
See this is the same conflict I have been running into over and over again.  The signature dosen't match either of the suggestions or style of W.H.  If it came from that school you are talking about wouldn't the artist have put his or her mark as well?
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 17, 2012, 07:54:27 PM
Just because it is in that style doesn`t mean it came from that area !! Hudson River is in NY state, but years ago the southern plantation owners could afford and would have bought the best !! So it is not out of the realm of possibility that it could be one of those artists !!  Hudson River school was a style of art that was quite popular !! Let me pull up their artists tomorrow and see if it matches any !! Then we will go to California and check !!  One thing I can say is that it was framed well so whoever owned it had a bit of money !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 17, 2012, 09:36:44 PM
I looked up lists of Hudson River Artists for New York and California.  There were some great artists but none with the last name Hunt.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 08:06:49 AM
Can you get a good clear shot of that signature ?? I checked all american artists list by birthday back to 1800 and found nothing !!  There is a possibility that the name is wrong,, Hurt instead of Hunt,,N rather than M ect !!  Would save time if I could see it !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: KC on August 18, 2012, 12:04:21 PM
Have to agree with Mart that I don't believe you have Wlm Morris Hunt work there.

Reminds me of some pics of the Catskills....

I am spitting distance from you and have seen some works in this area over time that resemble this style.  They were traditionally from the early to mid 1900's (gosh that makes it sound so old when I put it that way...).
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 12:34:48 PM
Thats my thoughts KC !! Not area , have never been there,, but time period !!  Very good artist !! Still need close up of signature !!  Nothing by that name on any American list !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 02:18:36 PM
I agree with both of you.  WMH had a signature that always seems to start with W. M. Hunt.  I will try to get a close up of signature
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 02:33:46 PM
Here you go.

It is deffently M Hunt.

What do yall think?
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: ghopper1924 on August 18, 2012, 02:52:30 PM
Looks like M. Hunt to me!!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 03:17:17 PM
As I am looking at the sig, there appears to be  shadows on the right !! Might be part of the scene but can`t tell for sure !!  Can just see the faintest images !! Can you take that side ??
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
It does appear that way.  It is darker right there, but when looked at with a magnifying glass it is apart of the back ground.  The way I took it made it seem like part of the signature.  If you look right above the first arch on the "M," there is a dark brown line or paint stroke.  Those two marks are the same as that one.  Sorry for the bad picture.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 06:08:59 PM
I am still not sure about the name !!  There is something we are not seeing or is missing about that name !!  Or,, its just a hobby painter that was pretty good !!  Why don`t you send some good pics to Christies appraisal service !! Its free and  they might know who it is !! Just be sure and take a good, clear pic of that name and widen that image to take in more of the sides !! I don`t think those marks on the side are part of the scene !! It looks different than whats behind it !! In other words it was added later as most signatures are !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: antiquesnsuch on August 18, 2012, 06:29:25 PM
I am from the Hudson valley and have seen quite a few of the Hudson river school artists come through, could you please take a close up photo from where the canvas is attached to the stretcher?
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 06:36:57 PM
That was my first thought !!  But couldn`t find the name anywhere in association with that group !! Even checked the ladies of Hudson River school !!  But found nothing !! Went through the artists of 1800`s and 1900`s !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 06:48:16 PM
I enlarged the pic on the first page that shows the back !! It appears to be hand stretched and trimmed but attached with staples, so mid century is my thought !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 07:03:28 PM
I will try Christie's.

As far as the hand stretched staple comment.  Hand stretched I agree but not staples.  They are nails that are bent over at the end. 

And the signature comment.  If you look with a magnifying glass you can see the texture of paint brushes going through the signature.  Nothing underneath.

Thank you so much for helping me I think it has come to getting an appraisal from Christie's and my local Pease-Cobb.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 07:06:53 PM
Is that what that is,, nails not tacks ??  Looked like staples with them bent !!  So headless finish nails ??
Can you take a pic of that edge,, it might help !!
 I think you misunderstood what I was talking about on the signature !!
Let us know what they say please !!  You are in Ft Worth,, There are several good museums in the DFW area !!  Might also get help there !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: KC on August 18, 2012, 07:27:34 PM
Mart, several good museums that are helpful when it appears to be a prized item that is.

I kept looking at that area after the signature from the start and was wondering if there was a date smeared in there somewhere!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 18, 2012, 07:31:02 PM
I think there is something there !!  Just can`t tell what !!  Gosh this is hard to do just looking at pics !!  Isn`t it KC ??
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 08:21:06 PM
Wish I could just pass it around.  The mystery is killing me!  I don't care if it is nothing just want to know.  Ok maybe I do want it to be something. ;)
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 18, 2012, 08:35:06 PM
Here are some more pictures that were asked for.  Ya'll are making me want to take the protriat out so I can look at it more.
I emailed Christies to see. 
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 19, 2012, 07:53:33 AM
Those are pretty new style nails !! Still think mid century !! 1940 or 50 !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 19, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
I am thinking you are right.  As I look at the frame itself, it seems to have the older style but with some newer techniques.  However that has nothing to do with the painting.  The person who had this framed could have easily had it reframed in the 1940 to 1950 range.  It is almost like you need two different appraisals.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 19, 2012, 10:07:16 AM
True the frame has nothing to do with the painting !!  I am saying mid century because of the canvas itself and how it is mounted, not because of the outside frame !!
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: 30clay30 on August 19, 2012, 10:56:44 AM
Thank you Mart!  Because of your constant feed back I have learned so much more about this painting in the last couple of days then years of not knowing where to even start.  Your last comment sent me on a path of dating the frame.  The nails used to mount the frame are wire nails.  These nails were commonly used in the last 18th century until about the mid 19 th century when staples and wedges were used.  It has a plaster gilding that is coated in what looks like a gold sheet.  Which dates it in late 18th century but more so in the early 19th century.  On one corner of the frame there is a piece of plaster broken off which shows bare wood.  In the wood there is a square head nail, which dates it in the 18th century.

Please keep the info coming! 

Oh the frame only has one marking.  There are two "X"s carved on the back.
Title: Re: History, maybe value of a painting?
Post by: mart on August 19, 2012, 11:44:16 AM
That might be gold leaf which has been used for many years and is still used !! That frame is a nice one and is likely older than the painting although how much older is hard to say !!