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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on August 26, 2012, 06:09:46 AM
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I bought this chest off Craigslist yesterday (for a great price!) and I would love to know more about it! It was listed as "Scandinavian or German." But I have been looking at hundreds of them tonight and it reminds me of Austrian ones. But I don't know exactly what to look for! It is missing it's feet. The hinges, lock, nails and escutcheon are original. The key is missing. The paint is all old grimy milk paint, very worn and warm. It may have been completely repainted at some point in it's life but I'm not certain. There is milk/oxblood paint over a few areas of extensive worm damage, so it was at least touched up. There also appears to be a very faded dark red pattern underneath the lighter red paint in some areas, which can be seen in a few of the photos. But it could just be darker red paint that was painted at the same time. It's hard to tell! You can see what I mean about the worm damage and the faded pattern in the third picture, near the top of the chest. If it was repainted, it was a very long time ago, maybe in the mid 19th century. I realize it won't be worth as much if it has been repainted. But for history's sake, I wouldn't mind a bit. I have been reading a lot online tonight and I read that these were usually kept for many generations and the family repainted them through the years.
There are a few words and scribbles in the little compartment inside, "88" is written a few times. I will get more pictures posted later! Thank you for any advice!
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Can't offer any knowledge........bu t WOW!! Absolutely LOVE it! Beautiful find. ;)
Only thing that did strike me was the signature. The very first thing that came to mind was the name of an old friend of my mother's..... Sjolander, which is Swedish, but I wouldn't be surprised if Scandinavian last names are similar in spelling. If I'm seeing correctly (and that's questionable) there's an S + J.......so they could both 'belong' there, rather than an S. J______.
Congrats on the new acquisition!
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Thank you, sapphire! I'll get a clearer picture posted of that writing soon. :)
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The wood looks like Scandinavian Pine...or Redwood as its known here in the UK,the hinges are called Back strap hinges,The paint is probably Gesso,which is also known as milk paint..in some area,s....its was used to cover up imperfections e.g knots irregular grain patterns etc..judging by the ironmongery....i would put its age..somewhere between 1870 and 1902...
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Love it hosman!!!
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Thank you, Wendy!
Bigwull: Thank you for your reply! Milk paint may have a bit of a different meaning over there, I apologize for not being clear! Over here, milk paint is literally that: a paint made with milk or other all natural ingredients. They used lyme, berries, blood from animals, iron oxide, clay etc. Gesso is more like chalky thick paint stuff that dries hard and people use to fill holes and make repairs, there isn't any gesso on here. :)
Also, I'm not an expert but I do know that it's much earlier that late 1800s-early 1900s!
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Agree on the date. I'd say 18th century is probably right, and possibly far back in the 18th century at that. That's some nice blacksmithing!
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Over here,in the UK,this is known as a Pine Kist,..on the left side as i see it,that lid lifts up,it should have no hinge..it will have a dowel peg that fits into the sides..does it have 2 small drawers underneath the compartment?
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how big is this chest ??
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I'll have to measure the whole thing again but I do remember that it's 53 inches long x 17 inches tall. I'll get the depth asap. It does have a dowel peg for the inside compartment! But no drawers under the compartment. :)
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If its 17in tall, then that,s the depth,its the width we need i,d hazard a guess and say its around 20in
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could be a dowry chest ! excellent find ! i would agree on 18th century but probably mid to late !
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Oops! I meant width. ;)
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could also be a Blanket Kist...Box to everyone else!
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kind of fun to speculate on something of this age !
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I think its fantastic that it got here...it would probably make our toes curl if we ever found out how many wooden antiquities ended up as fuel for the fire
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I've handled a number of Scandinavian chests and trunks over the years, and I don't recall having one with the overlay paneled front that this one has. I would guess that it was probably remodeled in the distant past to be presented as possibly a wedding gift. It was common to reuse a family piece by repainting and adding additional decoration.
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It's a late 18th century early 19th blanket chest of european origin. The panels, are the mouldings carved or mitered at the corners individual strips of wood ? If the panels are carved and not applied, that suggests germanic construction in the 18th century.
A quick google brought up this Swedish chest
http://www.antiqueandartexchange.com/catalog/case-pieces/blanket-chests/swedish-painted-dowry-chest
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If i were you, I would email the owner of this shop, she specializes in these types of chests/cupboards. She helped me awhile back with a paint decorated blanket chest i bought from upper NY state that turned out to be european origin. Very knowledgeable dealer who handles similar objects
http://www.cupboardsandroses.com/
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"kist" means chest in German, indeed, some early paint decorated Pennsylvania German blanket chests have the words "Mien Kist" which means "my chest" painted on them as well as the young ladies name. It was very common in 18th century PA. for the father of the house to commission a paint decorated blanket/dower chest on the birth of a daughter to his household.
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thanks for the link jacon4,, i would love to know more about this and chest and others although i doubt i would ever find one in a yard sale or craigslist here in Texas !
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Mart, lol, probably not in a yard sale, noooooooooo. Some of these 18th century paint decorated blanket/dower chests from PA are really quite spectacular. In Oct 2008, after the economic crash and art and antiques prices went with them, this chest sold at Pook & Pook for $120,000. at the Machmer sale. I have seen really fine examples sell for over $500,000. in the past. It's ALL ABOUT THE PAINT kids, i know,i know, i repeat myself but, its all true!
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5756368
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thats a nice one !! love the paintwork !! wonder how many chests like these have wound up coated with latex ?
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A bunch, but thats the good news because later paint can be removed without damage to the original paint. The bad news? some were stripped with a belt sander during a decorating fad in the 1970s, the chest is still 18th century but we will never see the original paint decoration, kinda sad actually.
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very sad !! these are lovely !!
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OK, back to the chest and later pics, it appears that the front board of chest is almost twice as thick as the sides of case are which suggests the panels are carved and not applied. If that is correct, i am going to guess last quarter 18th century, somewhere in Germany or Austria.
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A bunch, but thats the good news because later paint can be removed without damage to the original paint. The bad news? some were stripped with a belt sander during a decorating fad in the 1970s, the chest is still 18th century but we will never see the original paint decoration, kinda sad actually.
It still goes on over here,in UK,..think big tank of caustic solution,..in goes kist out comes a box that is a shadow of its former self.....
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Very nice & dandy scandahoovian-esque find , hosman321 !
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Looking at the last pic again this morning, the paint decoration looks original to me. If you have a black light, that should tell you if any modern paint is present as it will glow under a black light and really old paint will not.
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Thank you for all of your replies and your advice!
Jacon: I will try to find my black light today. We just moved and I'll have to go through boxes to find it. I'll attach a few more pictures. The only reason I thought that it had been repainted is because of the paint over the worm damage and that pattern that could be underneath the paint. But it could also just be faded. The front is twice as thick but it is not a single thick board, it looks like there is one board on the inside (that has the flat panels) and several little pieces of wood applied to the front with wood dowels. The carved area on the front also looks like it is applied, not carved into the board.
If it is the original paint, and with it's missing feet, and it's condition, what do you think it would be worth? I have seen wildly differing asking prices for similar European chests in similar condition, anywhere from $1,000-$3,000. Frankly, I'll be excited if it's worth more than the $250 I paid for it. Even if it isn't, I love it so much that I wouldn't care. ;)
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Top.
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Oh, and this link that you provided is very similar to mine in style and construction, it seems! Especially the way the wood is applied to the front. It is much more elaborate and in much better condition.
http://www.antiqueandartexchange.com/catalog/case-pieces/blanket-chests/swedish-painted-dowry-chest
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Thank you for all of your replies and your advice!
Jacon: I will try to find my black light today. We just moved and I'll have to go through boxes to find it. I'll attach a few more pictures. The only reason I thought that it had been repainted is because of the paint over the worm damage and that pattern that could be underneath the paint. But it could also just be faded. The front is twice as thick but it is not a single thick board, it looks like there is one board on the inside (that has the flat panels) and several little pieces of wood applied to the front with wood dowels. The carved area on the front also looks like it is applied, not carved into the board.
If it is the original paint, and with it's missing feet, and it's condition, what do you think it would be worth? I have seen wildly differing asking prices for similar European chests in similar condition, anywhere from $1,000-$3,000. Frankly, I'll be excited if it's worth more than the $250 I paid for it. Even if it isn't, I love it so much that I wouldn't care. ;)
Good for you....i,m the same...if i like it i buy it...without thinking...will i make a profit!!
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How much is it worth? I don't know in todays market, I would guess $500-$800 retail on the east coast, maybe more on west. Below is a chest i bought 6-7 years ago online at a small auction house in upper NY state, it's a dovetailed case with carved panels & original paint decoration. I was interested because of THE PAINT! naturally, but mostly because of the tulip/flower painted between the carved panels, i thought it might be American because the PA. germans used the tulip theme ALOT on their 18th century painted chests. Alas, it was not to be american but the dealer at cupboards & roses came closest to the region in europe where this chest came from i think. I would give her a shout on your chest with pics attached and see what she says.
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last pic of 1769 dower chest
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"The key is missing"
A word of caution about old chests that still have their locks but no key. In my case i learned the hard way to DISABLE THE LOCK before you start messing with the chest! As you can see on the above chest, it's missing the moulding around the base and i lifted it up on it's end/ side to see if it had indications of feet on it's bottom (it didnt) and, as soon as i lifted it, BAM! i heard a CLICK! the chest locked itself! Took me several days of messing with the lock to get it open again, just sayin.............. ..
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Your chest is amazing, jacon! I love it. Very similar star to mine. So nice that it is dated, kind of takes away the guesswork, doesn't it? I will remember your advice about the locks in the future, this chest is missing the part of the lock that attaches to the lid so I won't have that problem this time! I have an 1870s tool chest that locks itself when I close it sometimes. I better not lose that skeleton key. ;)
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could be a dowry chest ! excellent find ! i would agree on 18th century but probably mid to late !
I think your right. seen many but can't date it. great piece.
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Great advice about the lock from Jacon. Kids have become trapped in trunks and even newer cedar chests when they tried to hide.
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I measured the top, it's 24.5" wide. Forgot to mention that. One of the boards is about 14.5" wide. I found this piece of fabric crumpled into a tiny little ball, stuffed into one of the holes where one of the feet used to be. The seam is hand sewn. It's so cool to imagine how long it may have been stuffed in there! I put a little note in an envelope in the inside compartment stating when I bought it, where, and about the fabric. Still looking for my black light. ;)
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Hi it looks late 18th early 19th c the wood is evidently slow growing pine which denotes it as Northern , in UK this is often Scottish , so could be anywhere paralel/ Northern ! regards Martin
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Thank you for your reply, Martin! I appreciate your advice!
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Great advice about the lock from Jacon. Kids have become trapped in trunks and even newer cedar chests when they tried to hide.
Never mind Kids getting trapped,what about me...i got locked in my car recently,i was sitting in the drivers seat put the key in the ignition,turned it,the fob piece broke off,...then everything went nuts,the dead bolts snapped shut,the windows would,nt open,the wipers went crazy,the hazard light were flashing,...i was stuck inside for 1 hour,fortunately for me it was,nt a hot day,...then my wife came out looking for me,...then she used the spare key to open the door,..the fault was in the onboard computer...or ECU as we call it,
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WOW! That would be scary! I guess we should all carry a window bashing brick in the car, or know how to spring the trunk from the inside. I understand modern cars are supposed to be equipped so that you can get out of the trunk if someone were to attempt to lock you in it, but I have never tried it.
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Found my black light, nothing on it glows. Then again, I used it on several new painted items and none of them glowed either. :/
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Did you use it at night in a dark room?
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ECU = European Commun Union = messed up onboard computer? ???
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Kinda of a take-off of a previous comment....and related to this.
Hope Chests are still carried down through families (we still have ours), etc.
Unfortunately, many a child has climbed into them, gotten locked in and suffocated. As a result, companies still in business offer replacement locks for them...for FREE. Here is the link (with explanation and form to apply for the free lock) for Lane and Virginia Maid. We got our years ago. ( However, if you can even get a leg into ours it would be a miracle they are so full of stuff!!!!!)
http://www.lanefurniture.com/CustomerService/Lock-Replacement.aspx (http://www.lanefurniture.com/CustomerService/Lock-Replacement.aspx)
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I did use it in a dark room but maybe I need someone else to do it and stand back and look rather than being up close. :) Would be nice if I could right now but last night my husband accidentally broke my only black light bulb. :/
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Well, i would say your chest looks to be original paint, the black light would show more recent in painting of whatever decoration is there.