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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: FBODYWS6 on September 08, 2012, 07:03:11 PM

Title: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 08, 2012, 07:03:11 PM
I am trying to get some help identifying the maker/value of a coffee or tea set I purchased at an estate sale several years ago. It has initials on the bottom of each piece that look like HJ?  It also has impressions of the numbers "831/1" on most pieces and "831   0" on a few.  It looks like it may be Victorian or French.  It is brown and gold painted and it has service for 6.  The tea pot has two different scenes. One on the front and one on the back.  I have been researching this on the internet but have not found anything that looks like this.

I would like to know any or all of the following that someone may have info on:

Origin (eg: British, German, American made)
Age (time period)
Value
Maker
I would like to know if it is a coffee set or tea set as well

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/431317_3588631118751_625681060_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/320186_3588630878745_1510191664_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/527038_3588630558737_1708827001_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/527038_3588630558737_1708827001_n.jpg)
Thanks in advance.

FBodyWS6

Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 09, 2012, 03:01:36 PM
can you post the pics to this site,, cant see them there !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 09, 2012, 03:28:39 PM
Updated post to show pics without outside link. Thanks!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 09, 2012, 06:52:36 PM
odd mark !!  could be used for either,, but i would say coffee set because of the taller pot !! teapots tend to be short  and more rounded !!  not sure there ever was a rule on that though !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: greenacres on September 09, 2012, 07:13:58 PM
"I'm a little teapot short and stout". Remember that ryhme if that helps, lol
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 09, 2012, 07:28:44 PM
i think you are looking at it wrong,, turn it upside down  maybe FH ???
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: greenacres on September 09, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
I thought LH. Could it be Heike? or Handel?
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: bigwull on September 10, 2012, 05:12:11 AM
I thought LH. Could it be Heike? or Handel?
or Handel???....Nooooooooo,he was a Composer....think Handel,s Messiah!!

nice coffee set....
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: greenacres on September 10, 2012, 02:02:36 PM
Lol, I was looking at the porceline mark site to see matches. This company which I've never heard of had that name and similar marks.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 10, 2012, 02:12:13 PM
which one greenacres ??  only thing I can find on this leads me to think this is a japanese repro !!  Would like to see closer detail pic of the coffee pot !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 12, 2012, 10:35:52 PM
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/557529_3588631718766_1537773758_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/386275_3603983782558_555975153_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/270695_3603985902611_1753697885_n.jpg)

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486764_3603986462625_1747983030_n.jpg)

Does this help at all?  Also, can you tell me why the scenes are broken up looking?  Is it a transfer image?  If so, when did these start being used on Porcelain?

I am thinking from the fact that the china is translucent in the light that it must be porcelain.  Is that correct?

Thanks for your help!
FBodyWS6
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: wendy177 on September 13, 2012, 07:56:34 AM
Mart I also was thinking FH and for some reason I am being pulled to Limoges but can not find this mark in any of my old books they did use alot of messy hand marked pieces like this mark but no match.  The use of decalcomania (decals / transfer prints) was very popular during the Victorian and Edwardian periods. And almost every portrait featured on Nippon pieces are transfer prints. So by no means does a transfer print mean it holds little or no value.  Def a coffee set , chocolate pots are tall also and usually have a small spout near the top.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 13, 2012, 10:06:34 AM
Limoges was my first thought too but I have searched everywhere and have not found this mark !!  looked at the close ups and I can not find anything to indicate that this is a transfer print !!  May have missed something ,, but will look again !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 13, 2012, 09:28:39 PM
Hello,

I have been searching the internet for weeks and have finally found something that looks similar as far as the scene on my Coffee Set.

The people featured on this plate are the same as the ones featured on my coffee set.  Will this help anyone to determine what I have?

thanks a lot for all the help so far.  :)

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=%22LH%22+LIMOGES&view=detail&id=6B62D38F2C4C0A0042C09AFDCEC2B4D6CE1CEA68&first=109 (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=%22LH%22+LIMOGES&view=detail&id=6B62D38F2C4C0A0042C09AFDCEC2B4D6CE1CEA68&first=109)

Can anyone translate what this company is saying on their website?  It appears to be in Buenas Aires
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: meeple on September 13, 2012, 10:31:59 PM
That translates readily with google translate to:

Beautiful Plate/Porcelain Fountain
"LIMOGES"
 
  Perfect State
 
Is decorated by:
Lanscape with characters and flowers
  Excellent Color
Gold filigree
37 CM LONG
28.5 CM WIDE
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: KC on September 13, 2012, 10:42:47 PM
Something just isn't settling with me on this....

Limoge is one of the most copied styles because of high demand.

Maybe this will help some....

http://www.ehow.com/how_5437225_identify-french-limoges-porcelain-marks.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_5437225_identify-french-limoges-porcelain-marks.html)
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 13, 2012, 10:52:54 PM
Are you thinking that this may be a reproduction? If so, does that mean it isn't worth anything?  Would it be worth at least what the gold is worth?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: fancypants on September 13, 2012, 11:24:00 PM
It's pretty hard for me to figure too , esp w/o being able to have 'em in my mitts , but the craftsmanship of the medallions on the pieces sure have an asain touch to them , IMO , thru old & tired eyes tonight .

It would be nice to hear the 'ping' of each one .

I would have to say that these are perhaps 'fantasy' items , but do represent a a fancy style that has appeal with many folks .... saying that , items produced to appear as older more valued pieces are all over the markets , so getting fooled by items in which 'we' hope are the real thing is possible .

That's just my jaded guess / 2 cents .

I'd suggest going over a couple of your pieces from your cool little set with a loupe or 10x magnifyer & see what you can see .

Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: bigwull on September 14, 2012, 04:01:37 AM
Are you thinking that this may be a reproduction? If so, does that mean it isn't worth anything?  Would it be worth at least what the gold is worth?
Thanks.
Even if it is a Repo,...everything has value...of some sort...its a lovely coffee set....and as i always say in these circumstances...."if its not eating your Corn"....then keep it and enjoy it.....as for its gold,content...this is infinitesimal, its gold leaf...and has no tangible weight...
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 14, 2012, 04:21:25 AM
i know,,,,thing is that bugs me is i don`t see anything that says repro !!  usually its pretty obvious !!  of course we are only looking at pics,, !!  i have looked at every mark i could find and hit -0- !!
the gold value is not worth counting !!  the set is not going to make anyone rich but even repro sets should sell well !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: KC on September 14, 2012, 01:12:11 PM
It is a nice set.  Just not worth as much as it would be if it was authentic Limoge.  Still nice and I am sure that someone would like to buy it if you are going to sell it.

My goodness bigwull....my sides hurt on that one about If it's not eating your corn!  LOL

That's so true on this site.  If you like it...keep it.  If it gives you happiness then like it for what it is and enjoy it!  And in this case, it is a nice set!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 14, 2012, 03:22:36 PM
did Chris ever take a look at this??  if not,, wish he would !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 15, 2012, 04:11:24 PM
I would like to get a general consensus on whether or not I should pay for an appraisal.  I recently had twins, my house seems to be getting smaller by the day and we may be PCSing (military) soon so I would like to get rid of this rather than move it for a 6th time.  I just don't want to spend $50-150 on an appraisal if it's worth $100.  Any opinions?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: bigwull on September 15, 2012, 04:39:00 PM
You can get an online appraisal here from,the BBC..antiques roadshow team...which will cost approx $45, as a matter of interest.what did you pay for it...then weigh the cost against what you,d like for it...then wait for an ebay free listing day....stick it on with a reserve....and if it goes...then it becomes someone else,s worry....

link
http://www.justanswer.com/sip/antiques?r=ppc

Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 15, 2012, 04:48:03 PM
I think I paid ~$120.  It was 15 years ago so it's a little fuzzy.  Do you think it would make sense to be into the thing for $165?  Do you think there would be any money left in it?
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: bigwull on September 15, 2012, 04:58:48 PM
If this set does,nt at least get you your money back,then there is something seriously wrong with this world....and i want to get off it.....but in order to do so i,ll need 6 numbers...and the way we,ve been picking them of late.......i don,t hold out much hope.......

just bear in mind that this very delicate looking Coffee set...needs a lot of wrapping to protect it from a ham fisted removal man...and God forbid,one bit gets broken...because if it does...then its goodnight...$165+.....
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 15, 2012, 08:00:16 PM
look at the thread about the chinese scroll,, wendy posted a link for Christies Auction house appraisal service !! Its free and all you need is really good pics !!  thats who i would recommend !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: KC on September 15, 2012, 08:57:11 PM
Like mart's suggestion for the FREE....I wouldn't invest any more into it with all your impending challenges.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 15, 2012, 09:00:26 PM
look at the thread about the chinese scroll,, wendy posted a link for Christies Auction house appraisal service !! Its free and all you need is really good pics !!  thats who i would recommend !!

Thanks, Mart!  I will try this out!  :)
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on September 20, 2012, 03:45:52 PM
Does anyone have any other ideas?  I tried Christie's auction house and they were not able to (or would not) evaluate it.  They did not say why.  I guess I really just want to know who the maker is and the name of the pattern on the coffee set.

If anyone else has any other ideas, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.
FBodyWS6
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: wendy177 on September 20, 2012, 04:02:10 PM
Christie's auction house will not give an auction estimate on anything valued under I believe  $5,000.00 as they will not consign pieces that are of lower value. Try emailing replacements.com and ask for the pattern name & maker like you are looking to add pieces to your collection.  Also go to your local library and research any books on makers and china.
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on September 20, 2012, 06:56:53 PM
Does not say that on their site , Wendy !!  And I have looked at their auctions and there are many consignments under that price !!  Is this something new ??
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: wendy177 on September 21, 2012, 05:35:57 AM
No this is not new mart they have done this for as long as I can remember, they will make exceptions if they find a piece interesting or believe it will sell higher than estimated also some clients have very high dollar pieces and a few lower so they will take all to consign the higher pieces. Even smaller well known auction houses will decline to give an estimate if they feel the piece would fall below their minimum lot level of a set price. Skinner Auction house has a minimum lot level of $500.00. But as I said if they like the piece they will take it at a lower value or if the customer sells many many lots with them they will work to sell things at lower estimates. I think it is their way of weeding out what is of little value for that time. Skinner auction house would also not take any depression glass when I tried to consign with them in 2009. But when they looked at a depression glass black pinched bottle set with tray, glasses, candle holders and silver bottle tags they took it quick! 
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: bigwull on September 21, 2012, 05:37:05 AM
I sent pics to replacements.com... .and 3 other companies that specialize in china...and i have had 3 replies...all of which are almost the same..
.
quote...Sorry not a pattern or back stamp we have in stock this does look as if it is Chinese/Japanese and we do tend to stock English pattern 99% of the time.
Regards
Amanda
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on November 09, 2012, 11:02:22 PM
I sent pics to replacements.com... .and 3 other companies that specialize in china...and i have had 3 replies...all of which are almost the same..
.
quote...Sorry not a pattern or back stamp we have in stock this does look as if it is Chinese/Japanese and we do tend to stock English pattern 99% of the time.
Regards
Amanda

Thanks, BigWull and Wendy- I have pretty much given up on finding out any more information on this Coffee Set but thought I would check to see if there were any new replies and I see there are.  I really appreciate everyone for going above and beyond to help me out.  I figure for now, I will hold on to the set and if I should find any information on it in the future I can sell it then.  Thank you so much for your help and your time!  :)

Mandie (FBodyWS6)
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: KC on November 10, 2012, 10:56:01 AM
Mandie, the set is gorgeous!  Enjoy it!

I get disappointed when people lose their "zeal" for items just because they aren't from "renowned makers".  Kind of like brand name clothing these days!  These are items of beauty and took painstaking time to make no matter where they came from!  The artisans did a beautiful job...and resulted in a set of functional beauty!  Enjoy!!!!!!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: FBODYWS6 on November 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
Mandie, the set is gorgeous!  Enjoy it!

I get disappointed when people lose their "zeal" for items just because they aren't from "renowned makers".  Kind of like brand name clothing these days!  These are items of beauty and took painstaking time to make no matter where they came from!  The artisans did a beautiful job...and resulted in a set of functional beauty!  Enjoy!!!!!!

Thanks, KC.  Maybe when my 15 month old twins are a little older, I can enjoy it with them.  For now, they will stay safe wrapped up in a box and put on a shelf.   :)
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: mart on November 10, 2012, 12:02:54 PM
Look at them as antiques of the future !!  Even if repro`s they are very well done and beautiful !!
Title: Re: Need help identifying a coffee/tea set
Post by: KC on November 10, 2012, 12:11:48 PM
Enjoy those babies!!!  Twins run in my family (I was the one who really wanted them and didn't get them...my brother did!  Have twin uncles, lotsa' sets of cousins, grandparents, etc...)