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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Kimmienemo on September 27, 2012, 06:11:04 AM
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Good morning! I am hoping that you all can help me determine a value for this engine. I found it in the corner of Dad's garage, along with a letter he had received from the Briggs and Stratton Co. Apparently he had written to them and sent them pictures regarding the model of the engine. According to the letter, it is a model FB engine. I have seen on eBay, that some of the parts are relatively expensive - for parts. They had a fan housing - just the housing - and the bid was up to $150.
I have no idea what this thing is worth (or should I say what someone might be willing to pay for it). Any ideas/suggestions?
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you say you don,t have an idea what its worth??...a $150 fan housing is telling you that its worth a fair bit....whilst you may want to sell it as a complete engine...which might make a good price...its worth considering what its worth as seperate items...because after all that fan housing thats on ebay...came from one of these...okay it probably came from an engine that was,nt working...but if you could get this one to run...all the better.....keep an eye on that ebay auction..check out how many bidders there were...at the end...then ,its not rocket science...is it....
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True. . . not rocket science, but still way out of my comfort zone. Get it running - perhaps. I haven't sold items on eBay, so there is another learning curve. If selling on eBay - any recommendations on shipping? I don't have a clue on where to begin with something that heavy. The only "heavy" things I have shipped, were care packages to our son when he was in Afghanistan!
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Kimmie I totaly understand this being out of your comfort zone (Mine too) ;D I found this site it may be a good place to start for help. Also someone else here may pipe in and have all the answers you seek. But give these guys a shout, let us know how you make out. http://www.asecc.com/gallery/page4.html
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True. . . not rocket science, but still way out of my comfort zone. Get it running - perhaps. I haven't sold items on eBay, so there is another learning curve. If selling on eBay - any recommendations on shipping? I don't have a clue on where to begin with something that heavy. The only "heavy" things I have shipped, were care packages to our son when he was in Afghanistan!
First of all Kimmie...we need to ascertain...when this was made...judging by the external valve spring...its old..very old...now there will be a serial number somewhere..and possibly an HP value...is the engine able to turn over...i.e. piston up/down...i can see that it needs a rope coiled round the pulley...to start...any info at all will help....as for shipping... there,s UPS.. or FedEx...but i,ve no doubt there will be loads of small carriers operating in your area....i. know over here its very reasonable to ship heavy items...just last week i shipped an item that weighed 54kg..and it only cost £34....but our distances over here...are paled into insignificence..com pared to over there,.....I would call this a Vintage engine...but get some figures to us
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Great find Wendy....i,ve run out of Macs...but Sapphire,s store has tons..... ;D
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It's been awhile since I've seen one of those engines sell, but if I remember right the last complete one went at a local auction for around $500. They are quite rare, since only about 3000 of them were produced back in 1923-24.
Check the serial number, and you can find the exact month it was manufactured here: http://www.oldengine.org/members/murphy/F_Series.htm (http://www.oldengine.org/members/murphy/F_Series.htm)
(BTW: Mr. Briggs was a hometown boy from here.)
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Thanks to all of you. You have given me several great avenues to begin pursuing. I also found a gentleman on the internet that has a Briggs and Stratton collection. I sent him the pictures and he responded almost immediately asking for a serial number and to call him! Hmmm. . .
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I was following BigWull advise and went back onto eBay to look for the fan assembly. Come to find out, his part is a reproduction. He also has other reproduction parts available for B&S engines. (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Big-Guys-Stuff/Briggs-FB-Parts-/_i.html?_fsub=210940012) I hate to assume anything (you know how that goes. . . when you assume, you make an ass-u-me!), but is it safe to believe that the real McCoy is worth more than the reproduction parts? I apologize for asking this question. . . but I am so new to this that I want to make sure that my common sense is spot on!
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What common sense ..you don,t have any...asking a question like that LOL...of course the genuine article is always worth more than the repo....ass-u-me ha,ha,
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Here's one that sold on eBay last year. I think you will be pleased with the results.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350484183435 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350484183435)
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Awesome! I would never have guessed it could be so valuable.
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GHopper - it is just like your signature says. . . Is it heavy? Yes. Then it's expensive!" ;) Like you though. . . who would have thought. . .
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GHopper - it is just like your signature says. . . Is it heavy? Yes. Then it's expensive!" ;) Like you though. . . who would have thought. . .
i hate to be like a damp squib.....just don,t start counting them $$$ just yet.....what sold on ebay last year..was then....this is now.....but....get your finger out yours is far superior to that one...as i said earlier..check if it turns over...no need to get it fired up...weigh it, allow for the weight of a small strong wooden crate...then get it on ebay...that one had 16 bids from 9 bidders....so you, know that there are at least potential buyers ..just waiting for another one to pop up....good luck....you lucky sod..... :D
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Thanks, BigWull! I have also found a couple of B&S collector's clubs and small engine forums. Most of them have a "classified ads" bulletin board - so perhaps that might also be an option.
Thank you for the advise on the crate and weighing it.
Today, after work, I will go over and look for serial numbers and other identifying marks.
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Thanks, BigWull! I have also found a couple of B&S collector's clubs and small engine forums. Most of them have a "classified ads" bulletin board - so perhaps that might also be an option.
Thank you for the advise on the crate and weighing it.
Today, after work, I will go over and look for serial numbers and other identifying marks.
its always better to be prepared...we look forward to hearing how you get on, and wish you well....
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Please let us know about the results!!
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Advice again, please!
I found where the model number is stamped on the engine. It is a model FB, but I can't read the entire number. I tried to use the pencil rubbing trick, but the surface is so rough that it didn't work.
I am including a pict of the serial number. Any suggestions?
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The numbers/letters in the pic just posted appear to be from/of the casting of the engine 'block' , rather than a serial # to me , Kimmienemo .
Won't be my first time to be wrong , however !
Perhaps contacting those B&S collectors will give you a heads-up on the probable location of a serial # ?
Perhaps you could try pressing a piece of clay for a reverse impression of the stamping ?
I worked for Wisconsin Engine (long , long , long ago) , in the methods (engineering) department ... they would attach a metal plate with the serial/mod #'s on those engines .
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THe FB...is the block number not the serial number..it should have had a brass plate with the serial number on it plus the bore size the brass plate had a hole on each corner..check the engine...to see where it was located...i remember you saying you contacted a collector...he should know the approx year +-...
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Not a brass plate around - HOWEVER, I will double check again. I've been know to miss things! :o
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Not a brass plate around - HOWEVER, I will double check again. I've been know to miss things! :o
there,s plenty on ebay for this engine @$50 a piece........get back in touch with that collector....pick his brains...tell him you,ll buy him a coffee if you ever meet...
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Bigwull - great minds, same gutter ;)
Already emailed him. Inclued picts AND posed the same question to a B&S forum. However, they are not nearly as good as you all! They could learn a lot from Antique-Shop.com.
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Just heard from one of the collectors. His comment "call me. too much for emails" OK. . . so the cynical me is not happy! (I had a great childhood. . . I can't figure out why I generally don't trust people!) :-\
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Do not take a penny less than $800 for it. If it can be determined that it works, then $1,000 all day long. Chances are, the serial number plate is long gone. The block number should suffice to date the engine. It won't tell you the exact model, but at least the series it is.
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Thanks, R&RRods! I am going to make sure that I take my time, and not worry $o much about the fund$ that thi$ could bring a$ making $ure that I don't make a $tupid mi$take but jumping too quickly. I don't know if it runs, and since Dad is gone - and he was the mechanical maestro - I am not sure that I will be able to make that determination. I so wish he was here to give me advice - but I have found a wealth of advice from "friends" here at the forum. I'm so thankful.
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Wise decision. If I had a shop that dealt in classic cars or hot rods, and I found one of those, I would gladly pay the $800 for a non working (but still complete, and if similar condition to yours) one just to display it in the front room for customers to see. Especially for a known company like B&S. I think it's awesome, and I am not alone.
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Kimmie...its not that hard to determine if this engine works or not...after all its just a single cylinder internal combustion engine..to check if the engine turns over...first remove the spark plug...this will take pressure off the bore.then turn the pulley manually to see if the piston will move,if it won,t move then you will need to pour some release agent down the plug hole like WD40...refit the plug to hand tight, leave for a few day,s then remove the plug and try and turn the pulley again.....if on the other hand the piston does move at the first attempt,then you are half way there,..just think of it as a small car engine that needs a service.i.e. change the oil, clean out the fuel line as gas turns to gel..if left for a long time...flush out the gas tank...clean the air filter...get a 1/4in piece of rope to make a pull cord...you may need a new spark plug...but keep the original one..You can check to see if the magneto is working, by sticking the plug into the plug cap.then with a rubber gloved hand hold the plug cap and touch it against any piece of metal on the engine and pull the cord that you have wrapped around the pulley...then when you pull the cord this will spin the magneto.thus generating an electric current..which the comes as a spark from the plug, if you have a spark and a piston that goes up and down...then there is no reason why this engine will not run
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http://www.smokstak.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27
This forum group has helped me a lot !! Different sections, but I have found them very willing to assist !! I think they also have a sales venue but you can check on that !! I have been a member several years !! Mostly for the antique tractor forum but have used others and never been disappointed in them !! From simple info to actual values,, this group is great !! The above link is for small air cooled engines like your B&S !! Your engine reminds me of those used on go-karts in 50`s and 60`s !!
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Kimmie, do not attempt to see if it "runs". Do not attempt to turn the flywheel.
Looking at picture #4 it looks like the sparkplug is missing. Which means the piston could possibly be "frozen" up.
Spray a 1/4 can of WD-40 into the sparkplug hole and wait 2 or 3 days before you try to turn the flywheel.
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Damn, Bigwull, you beat me by 2 minutes that time.
Quit typing so fast, ya hear. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks, Cogar. Once that is done, should I put a plug (brass or spark) loosely into the opening to keep dust, debris and moisture from entering? (I live in a very dry climate with very little humidity so I am not as worried about moisture as I am dust.) If so, what would you recommend?
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Also, Cogar. . . I have some of the liquid WD-40 (in the pump bottle, not the aerosol can). Would that be better?
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Pump or spray can, they are both the same. You probably can't even buy a "pump bottle" now days.
If you have an old spark plug and the threads match the threads in the cylinder head, use it. If not, a rolled up tissue partly stuck in the sparkplug hole will suffice nicely. Just don't turn the flywheel with the tissues stuck in the hole.
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Damn, Bigwull, you beat me by 2 minutes that time.
Quit typing so fast, ya hear. ;D ;D ;D ;D
me type fast...you,ve got to be joking...remember i,m a pally juker with one useable finger.... ;D
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Thanks, Cogar! Will do!
Bigwull - I'm afraid to ask which finger is usable :D As a teacher, I would hope it is a "school-appropriate" digit!!! It's not nice to point with the wrong finger! ;D
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Thanks, Cogar! Will do!
Bigwull - I'm afraid to ask which finger is usable :D As a teacher, I would hope it is a "school-appropriate" digit!!! It's not nice to point with the wrong finger! ;D
methinks i,d be getting sent home every day.....then! ;D ;D
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I'd suggest using an ounce or so of automotive ATF , in the event that the engine is seized , rather than wd-40 .
Also suggest that you make sure there is fresh motor oil in the crankcase , prior to trying to manually 'turn-over' your cool little engine !
After giving it a day or so to penetrate , old mechanics are prone to use a wooden dowel inserted into the s.plug hole , semi-lightly 'tapped' with a small hammer , so as to free up the rings &/or piston from the cylinder walls .
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Listen to fancy pants. Truth is being spoken. Truth that could cause you to NOT kill the engine.
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Are those not 2-cycle engines? ??? ???
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No...there 4 stroke
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OOPS, shudda looked at the pictures again before posting.
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OOPS, shudda looked at the pictures again before posting.
that,s ok...i,ll let you off...after all you,ll still have sleep in your eyes...whereas i,ve been up fur hours..as its now 1.08pm here....oops feeding time....
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I told you all I would keep you posted, so here is a wee bit o info (How am I doing, BigWull?)
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had sent an email to a gentleman who was a vintage B&S collector and had his collection posted on the internet. I sent him pictures, and he was kind enough to tell me where to look for the serial number. I sent him the pictures of what I had found, and he has sent me three emails within a day and a half asking me to call him that there is "too much info for an email." I hope he is not thinking that he can smell a sucker! (Perhaps I am too cynical!) Tried to call, but not answer. Will try again later.
Most of you are pros at this, so if you have any pearls of wisdom, please do share! I haven't told this guy that I have some of the world's best antique sleuths in my corner! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Call him.
A call is not a committment of anything.
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I pm`d you !! Just don`t agree to anything !! Tell him that you are just curious !!
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You,re no daeing too bad...I,ve always adhered to a code,..treat people as you,d expect them to treat you....the people you would expect to treat you as a potential sucker...are the ones who will not give you their telling bone number...or address,s..or want you to send the goods, and they,ll pay by return....or appear on your doorstep,and promise you an arm & and a leg....you yourself will know how much you,d accept for this....so give this guy a call...
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I just got off the phone with the gentleman that I found on the internet. He told me that my engine was a (as I interpreted his statement) an Franken-engine. He told me that it was part FB and part FH? He gave me a bunch of technical mumbo-jumbo that I didn't totally understand. He told me that a running FB was worth in the market of around $1000 -$1200. What I did understand, was he told me if I was interested in selling it, to give him a call. I asked him what it might be worth as a Franken-engine and he told me around $200 plus shipping and handling. He said that if he did buy it, he already had all the parts and could restore it to a completely original FB engine.
I have a letter from B&S in response to a letter that my father had written to them in 1992. When he wrote the letter, he sent them three polaroid photos of the engine - they were in the envelope from B&S.
I am attaching them for you to look at and tell me what you think, before I offer my opinion.
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So you have the complete picture of what I am trying to get to the bottom of, I am also attaching a copy of the photocopy of the owner's manual that B&S sent Dad as well as the Carburetor - Governor schematic.
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I would get another opinion before you even start thinking about putting a price on it.
I see what the problem is: The FB had a 2 hole mounting system on the base...yours has 4 holes. ???
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You,ve got two options here Kimmie....one , you can take your time...give it a full service...from the looks of those pics..its a goer...all it needs is some TLC,...as i said in a previous post...give it a thoroughly good clean i.e. fuel lines, tank, air filter, change the oil,...make sure it can turn over...with the plug out the compression will be at its minimum...so you could probably turn the pulley by hand to see if the piston moves..if it does you,re more than half way there...if you can get it running then you know what its worth....option two...is...you advertise it as a Franken with a reserve....and see what happens....
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Thanks for the new images of your cool little tater-masher , Kimmienemo !
One thing for your consideration that I'd suggest would be : Advertise it as an "as-is & original as-found" item only .
I suggest this , since it is way more than dirt-common for older gasolene (or other fuels) engines to have seals & gaskets (esp in the carb & intake) that have shrunken/cracked and are extra-prone to leakage &/or more disintegration when fresh fuel & oil are added .
I wouldn't want to have a buyer calling me about how my pos engine caught on fire & burnt the joint down ..... just sayin ' ...
I'd think that the fellas' offer would be a bit on the 'light' side , provided that repairs/replacement parts might be minimal to get this little guy up & running .
Wish I had some B&S specific info/experience on your item , K , but it looks like there is sure a small committee-full of opinions on this one ... the one thing all seem to agree about is that it's a cooL one !
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Had to bump this one up !! Got tired of going 4 pages back to find it !!
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Well. . . this has certainly been an experience. I joined and posted questions to a couple forums. One in particular has resulted in numerous PMs and even a couple of phone calls. However, it is really strange. All of the inquisitions have come from one area of the country! Two of them know each other, and one would not give me any ideas of cost because a friend of him was "negotiating" a price with me - even though I was unaware of it. A third person in that same area told that he has found engine collectors to be "honest and fair to deal with" and that as a result of the poor economy, he wasn't sure how much it might sell for. He made a comment about the evils of eBay as they take a fair chunk of change from the sale. He also asked me what I planned on doing with the little engine and that if I was working with anybody or wanted to take offers from a group of people. He also asked if there was "someone you think would be a good home for it ,or do you want the most money you can?" Instead of possibly reading him wrong. . . I took the high road and thanked him for his insight.
My thoughts:
- These other forums are in no way as supportive and helpful as this one! You guys are all the best. Never once, have I felt like I was getting information that was self-serving on the part of the respondent
- What is so "evil" about eBay? My husband and I have purchased and sold a couple of vintage cars on the site and found it to be fairly good at helping seller of unique items meet potential buyers. Even if eBay takes it's share, it still might sell for more than some of these people are wanting to pay to "help me out."
Any thoughts?
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LOL Yes !! Do what you want !! Take the info you need and deal only with those that sound sincere !!~ You have to weed out a few in any group !!
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There are certainly those who , when fishing for info , wind up with the experience that they've been chumming for sharks , crabs & other forms of sea-life .
I'd guess that sometimes those who are in 'it' (whichever 'it' it is) for the dough 'only' could get upset about having to share a bite or two with others , perhaps to the point of considering taxes , income-reporting & pubilc o/l records as 'evil' .
It's a big ocean , so do keep an eye out for creatures with extra slime on 'em !
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He tried to get it for a steal. He failed. His loss.
Sell to someone willing to pay more, and for less hassle.
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He tried to get it for a steal. He failed. His loss.
Sell to someone willing to pay more, and for less hassle.
Does it always have to be about getting people to pay more....Not in my book it does,nt....
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Since the intiam offer of $200 was rejected and the seller in question indicated that they wanted more for it, then yes. In this case it does.
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I think you,ve missed my point here....
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When asked I would tell a person what I was willing to pay for the item they had ..... but soon figured out that most were running their own "private auction" ..... and from then on I would just tell then to "put a price on it" and if I liked it I would buy it.
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I've found that engine collectors are like most people, in that they want to use their knowledge to their advantage and gain. It's human nature to spend as little as possible. Competitive bidding seems to be the best way to discover the true market value of a semi-rare or unusual item.
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I've found that engine collectors are like most people, in that they want to use their knowledge to their advantage and gain. It's human nature to spend as little as possible. Competitive bidding seems to be the best way to discover the true market value of a semi-rare or unusual item.
I agree. I think deep, down inside, there is a little treasure hunter in all of us! I am thinking of an alternative that might set of them back a bit - there is also the possibility of dismantling the engine and selling off the parts. While I love it because it was my Dad's, he left me so many other personal items, that this one really doesn't have much sentimental attachment. I would rather have his old vintage lunchbox with all the Chiquita banana stickers on it that than this engine.
So much to think about.
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That may be trickier to do than you think. A lot of those parts fit various models and without knowing what they fit, it really limits your market.
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That may be trickier to do than you think. A lot of those parts fit various models and without knowing what they fit, it really limits your market.
R&RRods: even if I have a copy of the original owner's manual showing the parts, and the part numbers? (So glad you spoke up!) I'd hate to make a mess out of this!
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How can it limit her market..its market would only be limited if the parts only fitted one model...but as you are saying that this models composite parts fit many models...then it stands to reason that its parts could be wanted by more than one potential buyer....which in turn means bigger market....not smaller...
Kimmie, you don,t have to strip the engine..you can if you want, advertise it as a whole...or as composite parts...and if you get enquiries about any particular parts then, and only then do you strip it....but the danger here is...you may be able to sell what i would call the juicy bits and you may be left with bits you may not be able to sell.. but..then again..you may make enough on what you do sell, and not need to worry about being left with some of it...now to value...irrespectiv e of what you think its worth..or what others have said "they,d" give you...its only worth what someone,s prepared to pay....and..it is a buyers market....
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What i would do is ask $800. since there are parts that are needed I think to have a running engine !! Even if you do ebay you can use the "make offer" on your listing !! Ship Fed X or UPS and I think they will pick up at your house if arrangements are made prior !!
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Yes FedEx and UPS do a door to door service....
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Nine times out of ten, a classic engine is worth more complete as a near-running piece than to part it out. I've sold engines before. One of them was a 1966 Chevrolet 396 350HP factory engine. It had never been rebuilt. The client and I discussed and researched what it was worth all together (matching head and block numbers, original pistons, etc), and the overwhelming evidence showed that the engine was worth $1,000-$1,200 in my area complete. I sold it for $1,000. Had I parted it out, it would have netted $800. The matching numbers and all the fact that it was all original helped boost the price.
I have no doubt that a lot of the parts on this B&S fit other engines from the same time period. But if you don't know which models they fit, then how can you advertise as such? If you do know, then go for it. But there is something to be said for selling it all at once as opposed to waiting possibly months before it's gone from your garage.
And with the original owner's manual, I wouldn't even bother parting it out. Having it as complete as it is, with the literature, will help boost it's value to collectors and enthusiasts.
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I think ill start a language course in double Dutch!..or may Mandarin........ ::).
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Parting it out in pieces is sometimes costly.
One time at auction, four (4) matching vintage “spindle pressed-back” kitchen table chairs were put up by the auctioneer with a “buy one (1) chair …. and you can take all four (4)”.
After a flurry of bidding the 1st chair sold for like $35. The auctioneer asked “how many you want” …… and the hi-bidder says “one (1)”.
The auctioneer put the remaining 3 chairs up for bid and the same hi-bidder started the bidding at $5 …… and no one else made a bid.
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Now that is Chinese.... ;D
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Not Double Dutch. Classic car engines.
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I agree with R&RR,, don`t part it out !! Yes several different style parts were used on these engines by B&S !! So Just sell as is !!
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If memory serves correctly , I think Joshandlisa (members here) had posted about a delightful cast iron pedestal that this little engine would match perfectly !
Like others opined , all documentation & an 'intact' engine should bring in a higher return !
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I THINK I FOUND THE PISTON! YEAHHH ;D
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I THINK I FOUND THE PISTON! YEAHHH ;D
If its a spare....keep it...they polish up nice,and you can use it as a tater masher...from yer tater machine....and then at least if you do sell the engine,you,ll have this to remind you, :D :D