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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: brockles on October 07, 2012, 10:42:35 AM

Title: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 07, 2012, 10:42:35 AM
My grandmother gave me an item today which was her fathers, i know for a fact its atleast 40 years old and he was headteacher and he used it for conducting but from what iv seen of other batons on the internet its too long? She says its gold but im not too sure because it looks as if its plated but there are no hallmarks. At a guess i think its leather but not too sure. Does anyone have any idea's as to age, materials and what it was designed for? It is 25 in or 64cm long.
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 07, 2012, 10:43:45 AM
another
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 07, 2012, 10:44:38 AM
another
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 07, 2012, 10:47:36 AM
Rather than uploading 8 seperate pics on 8 seperate posts because the pics are too large to upload more than one in a post
http://www.flickr.com/photos/66671422@N06/sets/72157631713179074/
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: mart on October 07, 2012, 11:01:28 AM
The top has a seam like it would open,,does it ??  Gold should be marked somewhere !!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 07, 2012, 11:08:33 AM
just because you can,t see a hallmark...does,nt mean...its not gold...if it is what i think it is then the hallmark may have worn off...this looks like a swagger stick,and the gold may be of a higher ct...and with being handled that much the mark has simply worn off...or it may be of Indian origin....Not North American...the other Indian...who did,nt always stamp their gold
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: jondar on October 08, 2012, 07:16:37 AM
If I had to make a guess (and that's all it would be) I would be inclined to think it's a baton.  The little gold ring attached to the head is either to hang it on something or hang something from it.  I have watched on TV shows the conductor entering the stage and going to the podium and can't remember he/she carrying a baton so it must be somewhere on the podium.  The grain of the wood mystifies me, I can't remember seeing wood with that grain.  If its a baton then the "gold" is probably real.
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 08, 2012, 07:31:35 AM
Im pretty certain that its leather. My grandmother told me its a bull's tail but its far too thin i reckon. It also doesnt appear to be joined so seems as though it could be a tail but of something much smaller possibly?
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: Rauville on October 08, 2012, 08:11:30 AM
I would call it a fancy "Riding Crop", with that little ring designed to have a wrist loop attached to it.
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 08, 2012, 08:16:40 AM

i don,t think this is made from the bulls tail, i,ve got a feeling that it could be made from a bulls penis....after all they do make walking sticks/canes, and also whips from the penis..over here they are called pizzle sticks

http://www.fashionablecanes.com/Bull_Organ_Penis_Walking_Cane.html
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 08, 2012, 08:19:22 AM
I would call it a fancy "Riding Crop", with that little ring designed to have a wrist loop attached to it.
any riding crop that i,ve seen has a little paddle or flap on the end...
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: sapphire on October 08, 2012, 09:32:45 PM
brockles, does it appear that there is a piece missing from the 'business' end?  Is it flexible from handle to tip?

At first glance I took it to be a driving whip. While the ones I used did not have the long flexible whip like end, this one would be the shape of a more common driving whip used in standardbred racing,though much fancier than that used in training/racing and not as long. Mind you, that was 40 years ago.  ;)

Here is a picture of antique driving/dealer whip with the rope like end I mentioned (with a 64 cm shaft, from 1909) .....


Followed by a picture of a modern standardbred driving whip










Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: sapphire on October 08, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
Here is a close up of the plaited linen shaft and leather handle of the 1909 whip......

Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 09, 2012, 06:32:01 AM
Yea it does looks as if something could be missing at the end
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: mart on October 09, 2012, 09:51:48 AM
That last pic looks like braided pr plaited leather like Sapphire has shown !!  Seems a bit short for driving even with an addition !! I would guess personal riding crop with a six inch flexible braid at the tip !!  More like one used in showing not just an everyday crop !! Should have a wrist strap !!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 09, 2012, 10:07:50 AM
Is it worth anything?
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 10:49:50 AM
It is, if that is gold, and as i said previously, it does,nt need a hallmark to be gold...it certainly has the colour of gold...you can do a test...by using a testing kit..save,s taking it to a jeweller who may charge

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOLD-SILVER-TESTING-KIT-TESTER-SOLUTION-COLOUR-CHART-INSTRUCTIONS-/140861885763?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_JewelleryBoxes_Supplies_CA&hash=item20cc05cd43
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 09, 2012, 11:25:53 AM
Is it worth more than scrap value of the gold? Like is it something a collector would want?
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: mart on October 09, 2012, 01:48:17 PM
There are collectors for riding items such as bits and spurs for western riding,, I imagine there are as well for english riding !!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: Kimmienemo on October 09, 2012, 03:27:09 PM
My father attended a military academy while he lived in Texas.  He told me of one of his instructors who carried a "swagger stick"  Do you know if your great-grandfather was ever in the military?  Could there be a military insignia on it? I read that "standard" swagger sticks are around 22".
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 03:30:58 PM
if  a collector of whatever you have got...and the jury,s still out as to what it might be...if it was complete.a collector would probably be interested..but as it is..you,d have to advertise it as incomplete...which greatly reduces its value....
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 03:34:37 PM
My father attended a military academy while he lived in Texas.  He told me of one of his instructors who carried a "swagger stick"  Do you know if your great-grandfather was ever in the military?  Could there be a military insignia on it? I read that "standard" swagger sticks are around 22".
you,ve missed the boat Kim..see.my first post..... ;)
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: Kimmienemo on October 09, 2012, 03:59:19 PM
Oops! ::)  That will teach me to skim the posts!  Sorry!  I guess I lose the few coconuts I earned  :'(
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 04:05:12 PM
Oops! ::)  That will teach me to skim the posts!  Sorry!  I guess I lose the few coconuts I earned  :'(
Coconuts are old hat...i,m on Guava,s now....
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: mart on October 09, 2012, 04:36:31 PM
Swagger sticks are usually made differently and not nearly as tapered at the end !! They are more cane like !!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 04:51:40 PM
I doubt if we will ever really know what it is...simply because..if it were a riding crop..it would have a paddle on the end, if it was a whip..its too short...maybe its a magic wand for all we know....like this swagger/wand....


Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: greenacres on October 09, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
Was anyone a professor? Maybe it's a fancy pointer as to pointing at things on a blackboard. Just another idea. :-\
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 09, 2012, 11:59:57 PM
Not a bad idea...it could be many things...but with possibly having a piece missing?..we just can,t say for definite,....what we have,nt asked...i don,t think is.....is it flexible...how much give, is there when its held at either end....then bent slightly...?
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 10, 2012, 02:29:48 AM
He was a headteacher....
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 10, 2012, 03:20:24 AM
we all missed that, as its in your first post...but i still think it would not have been made as a pointer...it has been something else prior to possibly being used as a pointer...could you take a pic of the end...to give an end on view....
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: Kimmienemo on October 10, 2012, 05:57:08 AM
It's amazing how reading other's posts can bring back memories and smiles!  When BigWullie posted "been something else prior to possibly being used as a pointer" it reminded me of a professor I had that had an old car antenna - the non-retractable kind, shoved into a home-made wooden handle.  That was his pointer!  He was such a character. . . good Irishman ;) - Dr. Weinheimer!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 10, 2012, 10:53:32 AM
So by the looks of it the majority of it is quite sturdy and its just the very end that is flimsy.
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 10, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
Another
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: brockles on October 10, 2012, 11:01:06 AM
Someone asked for an end on view but it was quite difficult but i gave it a go but its not really focused
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: jondar on October 10, 2012, 11:19:45 AM
I think Sapphire had it pegged, doubled and redoubled in spades, with her two pics of a driving whip.  I'm guessing it was the old type that somewhere along the way had some of the forward end amputated.
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 10, 2012, 04:15:09 PM
yes it pays to keep asking questions.....
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: greenacres on October 10, 2012, 08:10:43 PM
That has to sting with all that flexibility! :o
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: sapphire on October 10, 2012, 08:54:35 PM
That has to sting with all that flexibility! :o

You get one of those cracked across the back of your legs, guaranteed you're going to move........usually vertically. (I learned very quickly to detect the sound of an incoming whip ....... when I still had good reflexes  :P)
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: KC on October 10, 2012, 11:58:50 PM
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/STUNING-Antique-Gold-Plate-Holy-driving-whip-/200795900696 (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/STUNING-Antique-Gold-Plate-Holy-driving-whip-/200795900696)
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: bigwull on October 11, 2012, 03:34:46 AM
That has to sting with all that flexibility! :o

You get one of those cracked across the back of your legs, guaranteed you're going to move........usually vertically. (I learned very quickly to detect the sound of an incoming whip ....... when I still had good reflexes  :P)
over here it was your a**e they aimed for....i stood in class quite often......i hope this has not been lost in translation ;D
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: KC on October 11, 2012, 12:31:38 PM
I imagine you can contact any of these that have "driver's accessories" available for a replacement on the whip end.

If you search drivers whips you find lotsa info.  Still VERY popular!!!
Title: Re: Conductors Baton or Whip?
Post by: greenacres on October 11, 2012, 06:41:28 PM
Wullie, why am I not suprised!  ;D ;D ;D