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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: zramman on January 13, 2013, 09:11:52 AM
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Hello all,
Has anyone seen anyting like this before? It's a silver tray, with a insignia and an inscription with K J on it.
Attached is a photo.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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a pic of the underside and of any hallmarks...would help...
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It doesn't look British, and the coat of arms would have to be looked at by a herladic expert. Might be Spanish related. Maybe Lima in Peru. King Karolus and Queen Johanna
A variation of this
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2390/2122525829_7fa877d20e_m.jpg)
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This plate is European...Not Peruvian,..the Eagles are...facing out...not in....although many other countries have adopted these eagles..Peru is,nt one of them...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2+headed+eagle&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=6VHzUI_BBoqY0QXt_4GIDg&sqi=2&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=651
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Ahem
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spanish-Colonial-Silver-Tray-Lima-Coat-of-Arms-Queen-Johanna-King-Karolus-/110998679608?pt=Antiques_Silver&hash=item19d8097038 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spanish-Colonial-Silver-Tray-Lima-Coat-of-Arms-Queen-Johanna-King-Karolus-/110998679608?pt=Antiques_Silver&hash=item19d8097038)
And a close up of the centre, which is strikingly similar
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Spanish-Colonial-Silver-Tray-Lima-Coat-of-Arms-Queen-Johanna-King-Karolus-/00/s/MTQ2MVgxMDcz/$T2eC16ZHJHgE9n0yG+fMBQYk+,HVfg~~60_35.JPG (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Spanish-Colonial-Silver-Tray-Lima-Coat-of-Arms-Queen-Johanna-King-Karolus-/00/s/MTQ2MVgxMDcz/$T2eC16ZHJHgE9n0yG+fMBQYk+,HVfg~~60_35.JPG)
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Yes...your close....but...you don,t get any coconut...I suggest you look at both plates again...and then tell me Ahem!....or better still....Oops...mig ht be the word you,ll be looking for....and just in case you miss it....its in the K..J... ;D
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Yes...your close....but...you don,t get any coconut...I suggest you look at both plates again...and then tell me Ahem!....or better still....Oops...mig ht be the word you,ll be looking for....and just in case you miss it....its in the K..J... ;D
No, look at the image i gave a link for.
K J. Three crowns, a star, a flower / plant. Two coats of arms that have all those elements ?
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I think I would wait to see the marks /hallmarks !! And need to know the persons location !!
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(http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/p/pe-lima2.gif)
A two headed eagle ( heads facing out...) for Lima
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this is,nt a competition about...who found what..although..i can now see that you think you have something to prove...and that you may be seeking a coconut...well...i,ve run out of them....i do admit there are striking similarities...but. .also a vast difference...i.e. K on the left as you look at pic 1...and J on the right....but as Mart says...we should wait until the O.P...gives us a location...which... i think all should do from the start....as it would save a lot of conjecture....
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You said " This plate is European...Not Peruvian,..the Eagles are...facing out...not in....although many other countries have adopted these eagles..Peru is,nt one of them... "
This being my point - they have.
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Just what we need on here....another Rivetcounter....or as we used to say up here...."give that Nitpicker a bottle of Suleo....that,ll shut him up..... ;D
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LOL !! I have no clue !!
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Ok wow, didn't expect those many responses.
Thanks so much guys, any idea of what its possibly worth? I will try to get a pic of the back for any hallmarks or signitures.
Appreciate the help!
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first and foremost...can you give us a general location...for as it is..you could be anywhere...and say for instance..you were in a third world country...then the value might be as little as a pound of rice.....location does help...
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I'd be surprised to see hallmarks on it but i suppose it could be low grade silver.
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The double headed eagle is widely used symbol. My guess is that itīs Russian, they used this symbol really a lot.
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Another similar here, with the K and J positioned as in the silver tray from the original poster
(http://www.eliteauction.com/catalogues/021211/images/36_1.jpg)
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Found this on the web:
"Hoc signum vere regum est" means "This is the true signal of the kings"
The initials "K" and "J" are for Kraljevina Jugoslavija or the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
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The central shield is wrong for Yugoslavia
In my opinion, here it's for the Spanish Queen Johanna and King Carlos (Karolus)
This is Yugoslavia
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia.png)
Put the motto in quotes in Google, then the word silver. Loads of results similar to those posted by the OP
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Wullie, someone else on the forum as determined as you! LOL :)
Would love to see the hallmarks myself!
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The central shield is wrong for Yugoslavia
In my opinion, here it's for the Spanish Queen Johanna and King Carlos (Karolus)
This is Yugoslavia
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Lesser_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia.png)
Put the motto in quotes in Google, then the word silver. Loads of results similar to those posted by the OP
this is like the pot calling the kettle black....last night...you tried to pass of a Spanish double eagle as Peruvian...even although the K J..were the wrong way round...now you,re saying its Spanish again...and not Yugo....you want to make yer mind up and stick with it...instead of jumping aboot like a chicken wi its heid chapped aff..... ;D...
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You do know about Spain and Peru back in the day ?
" These arms were granted by the Spanish King in Valladolid on November 3, 1536. The blue field represents justice, beauty, sweetness, loyalty and perseverance. The red band stands for bravety, nobility, honour, generosity, joy and magnanimous spirit.
The three gold crowns represent the three magician kings of the bible and three Spanish catholic kings. The eight pointed star represents majesty, peace, greatness, prudence and fecundity. This is the Star of Bethelem that announced Christ's birth. The motto says in Latin "Hoc signum vere regum est" (This is the true signal of the kings). Lima was named by the Spanish conquerors as the King's City. The letters I and K stand for the Spanish Queen Johanna and King Carlos (Karolus). The two-headed eagle is the Spanish imperial eagle. "
I'm not jumping anywhere. I haven't said it couldn't be Peruvian when it could, for instance.
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You do know about Spain and Peru back in the day ?
" These arms were granted by the Spanish King in Valladolid on November 3, 1536. The blue field represents justice, beauty, sweetness, loyalty and perseverance. The red band stands for bravety, nobility, honour, generosity, joy and magnanimous spirit.
The three gold crowns represent the three magician kings of the bible and three Spanish catholic kings. The eight pointed star represents majesty, peace, greatness, prudence and fecundity. This is the Star of Bethelem that announced Christ's birth. The motto says in Latin "Hoc signum vere regum est" (This is the true signal of the kings). Lima was named by the Spanish conquerors as the King's City. The letters I and K stand for the Spanish Queen Johanna and King Carlos (Karolus). The two-headed eagle is the Spanish imperial eagle. "
I'm not jumping anywhere. I haven't said it couldn't be Peruvian when it could, for instance.
Is,nt Google a wondrous place.... ;D
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It is Wullie !! Thats why we all use it !!!
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It is Wullie !! Thats why we all use it !!!
Christ!!...is that right....and here was me thinking....that some of you guys were academics...with high I.Q,s...and degrees in Spanish History.....but nowt else... ::)
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Thanks for the last laugh/smile for the evening! Good night Wullie and Mart!
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It is Wullie !! Thats why we all use it !!!
Christ!!...is that right....and here was me thinking....that some of you guys were academics...with high I.Q,s...and degrees in Spanish History.....but nowt else... ::)
Never claimed to have a degree in Spanish history, although most people will know about Spain and South America
You've been hostile and rude ever since i pointed out you were wrong about the eagle heads.
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Ipcress,, thats not Wullie being rude !! Just normal !!
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So rude IS normal?? ;D
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Hostile!!....I,ll take that as a compliment then,....as for being wrong...Its not often that i,m right...but i,m never wrong....I said this plate was,nt Peruvian.....and you yourself proved me right..so how can i be wrong....
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So rude IS normal?? ;D
LOL !! On occassion it is !! I just look at it like a puff of smoke,, it will all blow over later !!
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We don't yet know it's not Peruvian. I've said the crest is for the Spanish king and queen.
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If it is Peruvian...then...i,ll not be eating my hat...as i don,t have one....but you will get a Persimmon....as i,m right out of coconuts, and mango,s..and the Mac Reds...are past their best....... :D.
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what would help this topic....no end...would be some input from the O.P...
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The original poster is probably scared away!!!!
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O.P...come back....Ipcress.... did,nt mean all what he/she said....they,re a newbie....and just did,nt take to my..."normal"....ness ;D ;D
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By what they posted later on the first page, i don't think they have the tray. " will try and get some images of the hallmarks " sounds like they had to ask for them
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This happens often,, someone posts a question and then its forgotten !! Really irritating when we get no help and usually what is posted and the pics are not what is needed !! If they would just say that they had to go somewhere to take pics and will post them later would be better !! I just hate wondering what happened when they don`t come back !!
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Agree Mart, especially when it is an item that has "stirred up" alot of finger fussing!!!
LOL
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Indeed KC !! I want to see who wins !!