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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: walker on January 30, 2013, 06:43:27 PM
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Hi all. Ive recently inherited a music box that belonged to my grandmother. Unfortunately I was unable to discuss its origin before she passed away and now I have little to no info on the piece.
First off a link to an imgur album: http://imgur.com/a/EBvoS#0
The box is about 19in x 12in and about 9in tall
The pictures of the mechanics are not the best and I can take more if it will help but Ive been lead to believe that the important bit (for id purposes) is the song sheet. It has three bells that have bumblebee strikers, a small snare drum, and a six song cylinder. Both the drum and the bells can be disengaged by levers under the glass.
Ive been able to track down 2 of the "airs" and they are both from the 1880s.
It still plays and with the exception of a cracked drum head seems to be in fine working order.
Any information at all in either the form of info on the box or help in locating an expert would be most appreciated.
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Is their a manufacturer name on it anywhere?
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Is their a manufacturer name on it anywhere?
No unfortunately not. From what I've been able to find online it's not at all uncommon for music boxes of that vintage to not have any makers marks or manufacturers names. This allowed retailers to sell them as their own.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Swiss-Cylinder-Roll-Music-Box-8-Airs-Songs-Drums-Bells-Rosewwod-Runs-/200884677036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec5a8e9ac
This seems to be the same mechanism inside. Of course your box is beautiful.
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http://www.rauantiques.com/item/Swiss-Cylinder-Music-Box.29-4825.html?sort=score+desc%2CPrice+desc&facet.query=Price%3A%5B0+TO+5000%5D&start=0&q=*%3A*&fq=PRI_CAT%3AWEB.ANTIQUES.MUSIC_BOXES&activeNav=antiques&rows=99999&follownutch=no
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Couldn`t read the insert with yours !! Could only see one pic and couldn`t enlarge it !! Those sites don`t work for some of us !! Can you post your pics here ??
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Couldn`t read the insert with yours !! Could only see one pic and couldn`t enlarge it !! Those sites don`t work for some of us !! Can you post your pics here ??
Sure.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img713/3884/img0166ez.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img849/2474/img0173mi.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img94/507/img0167em.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img29/9931/img1187t.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img507/2294/img1186s.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/8308/img1185vi.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img705/1179/img0174gh.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img825/8842/img0172ow.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img194/3066/img0171mw.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img541/631/img0170xc.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img805/9573/img0168vq.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img805/6411/img0169ss.jpg)
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Make sure you make them smaller or the pictures won't upload. mart, it's quiet w/o bigwull, lol ;D
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1880s sounds right, thanks to your research. The music box was probably made in Switzerland, where most of these were made. The case looks like rosewood with satinwood inlay and some ebonized (NOT ebony, but ebonized wood) trim. I don't know what kind of impact that broken drum head will have on value, but if it can be fixed, do it. If that were repaired in a historically sensitive manner, this would probably be worth $500-$1K, depending on how the finish on the case cleans up and how good it sounds overall.
Nice piece! If you do a little restoration it could remain as a beautiful and functional family heirloom for another 125 years!
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Hi all. Ive recently inherited a music box that belonged to my grandmother. Unfortunately I was unable to discuss its origin before she passed away and now I have little to no info on the piece.
First off a link to an imgur album: http://imgur.com/a/EBvoS#0
The box is about 19in x 12in and about 9in tall
The pictures of the mechanics are not the best and I can take more if it will help but Ive been lead to believe that the important bit (for id purposes) is the song sheet. It has three bells that have bumblebee strikers, a small snare drum, and a six song cylinder. Both the drum and the bells can be disengaged by levers under the glass.
Ive been able to track down 2 of the "airs" and they are both from the 1880s.
It still plays and with the exception of a cracked drum head seems to be in fine working order.
Any information at all in either the form of info on the box or help in locating an expert would be most appreciated.
Looks like a drum and bells music box.
Have the teeth on the comb been damaged ? Any chance of an image of the mechanism with the glass up / out the way ?
You may not immediately see a name but it could be on the mechanism - looking down on it, check the corners and brass surfaces. There may be a serial number.
Once found one of these supposedly unnamed and it was a Nicole Freres, one of the most sought after makers.
Could be anything from £300 to four figures.
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Thanks for the info so far. You folks rock!
The teeth on the drum seem to be in good to great condition. I dont see where its missing any teeth or where any are bent or damaged to the point that they dont strike the comb.
Ill get some more pictures with the glass out of the way this evening when I get home from work. Anything in particular you want to see or just general images?
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I think Ipcress and I more or less covered it. Looks like we agree on value. It's true that a Freres music box has a higher value, but a buyer would want a label of some sort before they'll pay the big bucks.
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Thanks for the info so far. You folks rock!
The teeth on the drum seem to be in good to great condition. I dont see where its missing any teeth or where any are bent or damaged to the point that they dont strike the comb.
Ill get some more pictures with the glass out of the way this evening when I get home from work. Anything in particular you want to see or just general images?
Just a nice one of the whole mechanism from a slight angle from above.
I agree with GHopper and this only having three bells etc would suggest low to mid hundreds ( pounds sterling ) but there may be a mark somewhere, near the cylinder or next to the comb
You may also want to contact the MBSI here info2010@mbsi.org as someone may recognise it and they can even recognise the tune cards - yours is colourful and in excellent condition. They are often torn.
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There were quite a few of these made !! Saw several with the insert & similar case !! Those with 6 or 8 songs usually run between $300. and $500. in my area !!
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There were tens of thousands of these made and the vast majority have that style case.
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Make sure you make them smaller or the pictures won't upload. mart, it's quiet w/o bigwull, lol ;D
Where is he ?? Wasn`t he supposed to be moving to his new house ??
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Make sure you make them smaller or the pictures won't upload. mart, it's quiet w/o bigwull, lol ;D
Where is he ?? Wasn`t he supposed to be moving to his new house ??
I knew he had a plan. Moving must be easier when all you have to do is empty your stove of ashes, rather than hauling furniture. :D ;)
In regard to the music box; I think prices are about the same today as they were back in the mid 80's. As far as repairs to the drum; do a search for David Beck (in Georgia I believe).
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/200884677036?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
I was shocked at the ending price.
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Yeah, at least £100 more than i think he'd have received in a normal auction room, but the seller has taken lots of clear, close up images etc. Tune card appears to have a copyright / printers name bottom right and might help identify it, maybe as an early model for this manufacturer.
And finally, it is Ebay. I've seen £350 paid for £250 worth of gold.
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These cylinder music boxes continue to bring good prices, I don't care how many of them might have been made.
The only thing that's shocking about thd one in the link is the poor condition of the case. That's about the price I would have expected if it were all in good shape. But who knows, maybe that model is particuarly rare or something. There's a whole world of collectors in this genre.
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You folks were such great help that I wanted to update you on what the wonderful people over at mbsi (http://www.mbsi.org/) were able to tell me:
You have already done some good detective work in tracking down two of
the six tunes on your box. And you are right that tune sheet design
can often identify the maker of a box.
We can tell you that your box was made by L'Epée. The tune sheet
design is shown in Supplement 1 to H.A.V. Bulleid's "Musical Box Tune
Sheets," where it is listed as #223, with the note, "This is the least
common [L'Epée] design, with its 6 cherubs and banners for 10
composers above country and castle pictures."
The serial number on your tune sheet, 28184, shows, using Bulleid's
dating charts, that your box was made in 1890, give or take a year.
The number 28184 was used twice, once around 1867 and again around
1890, because when L'Epée's numbering reached 50,000 in 1880, it
started renumbering from 1, reaching 80,000+ by the end of its
business.
Here is what we were able to find about the six tunes:
1. Carmen (Quant au douanier) -- Bizet 1875
2. Little Sailors -- A.G. Crowe 1880
3. Pretty Lips -- nothing (too little information)
4. The Light House By The Sea -- nothing (too little information), nor
with spelling "lighthouse."
5. In The Morning By The Bright Light -- James A. Bland 1884
6. Manon, Waltz -- Massenet 1884
It would seem, from the tune titles, that your box was made for the
Anglo-American market
They were also able to put me in touch with a restorer in my area that can help me with the finish and the drum head.
Again thank you all so much for letting me tap your collective knowledge. You have been more help than you'll ever know.
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Good to know ! I've used MBSI before myself so knew they'd be able to help. The tune card is something that is often neglected in identifying music boxes - most people think they are just generic and printed separately
By the way
" Light House By The Sea " is probably Gussie Lord Davis, 1886.
" Pretty Lips " Arthur Lloyd 1882
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Great! Thanks for getting back to us, Walker. That happens far too seldom.
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http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10196099
There are many of these music boxes on image google if your intersted in looking for prices and similar boxes.
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That box isn't really similar.
This is more akin to it
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-musical-box-by-lepee-for-thibouville-lamy-4365962-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=4365962&sid=0d27d512-9232-4546-be37-4f86a328730b (http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-musical-box-by-lepee-for-thibouville-lamy-4365962-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=4365962&sid=0d27d512-9232-4546-be37-4f86a328730b)
(http://www.christies.com/lotfinderimages/d43659/d4365962x.jpg)
but i prefer the chromolitho tune card of Walker's box
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Funny item to have. ;D
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They're wonderful, actually. Mine dates from ca. 1850 or so and is wound with a huge metal key. 6 songs, though unfortunately I don't have the original tune card. Anyway, the sound is charming, it still works after 150 years, and it doesn't need electricity!
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I know a guy who restores them and sells them on and he says most of the time problems are caused by build up of grease and dirt.
I love old world stuff.
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I lived next door to a professional restorer once !! He worked on everything from small music boxes to pipe organs !! I liked to sit outside when he tried them out after he completed them !! You could hear some of them all over the neighborhood !!