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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: jim10e on February 06, 2013, 09:29:03 PM
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I have not been able to find anything like these in my research.
Does anyone know anything about these candelabra?
These items are 7' tall and weigh 250 lbs each.
There is a date of 1702 ad in Roman Numerals which is in cast which make them 311 years old.
These are signed by famous French sculptor Claudion.
There are many symbols including angels, gargoyles, and symbols from the Catholic Church.
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Can you please give us some background on the items? Where did they come from? Where are you located?
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290847772734&item=290847772734&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466
The date on the plate would not normally be the date these were cast since they are part of the sculpture !! That would more likely be the date that the church was established !! Date these were made would have been with the signature and inscribed by the sculptor !!
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Clodion was active later in the 18th century. He was born after 1702, so could not possibly have made them in that year.
If these are Clodion originals, then they'd be worth many thousands of $ American and should probably be in a museum.
Clodion was heavily copied in the 19th century. The copies would also have a facsimile of his signature, so just the appearance of the name does not mean he made them, or was even alive when they were made.
I know it seems unfair. The good news is that eve if they're 19th century reproductions they could STILL be worth good money, depending on the quality!
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He has them priced at $5 G !!
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"and weigh 250 lbs each" ........ ???????? ???
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Since when has MDCIIC been 1711 ? It's 1698 but this has been used on coins dated 1722. Maybe relates to something else, such as the date a monarch ascended to the throne ?
Claude Michel was born in 1738.
They belong in a church or catherdral
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My guess is that they're a later vintage
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I still think its the date the church was established !!
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My guess is that they're a later vintage
Oh aye, they're not that old and the casting / moulding isn't sufficient quality to be Clodion.
We're back in ' after ' territory here.
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Yep. Same old same old.
In addition to the 5k price and 250 lb. (!!) Weight, there are several figures missing that need to be recast.
Hmmm...
And isn't Clodion's name spelled incorrectly?
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Here's the ebay ended listing for them again. They have been stored in a "now defunct" monestary?! So are these legally acquired?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290847772734&item=290847772734&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290847772734&item=290847772734&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466)
AND the renowned sculptor that this is leaning towards is French Sculptor Claude Michel who is known as Clodion. This name is similar...but not the same.
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I can find nothing about a sculptor named "Claudion." I wonder at this misspelling?
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It's Clodion ( Claude Michel ) spelled incorrectly
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Even on the candelabra itself??
That's what's odd. It's as though someone wanted to invoke the name while protecting themselves from "plagiarism."
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That's exactly what seems to have happened. You can also find a few small bronze productions made with the same name spelling but no such sculpture to attribute it to...except Clodion (Claude Michel). If there is, I would like to know!
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Even on the candelabra itself??
That's what's odd. It's as though someone wanted to invoke the name while protecting themselves from "plagiarism."
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11992988_after-claude-michel-claudion-bronze
Amazingly sold for $400 and yet is no way connected to Clodion in any way. Someone has done a fairly cheap casting, knocked off a certain number and sold them.
It's the same with Preiss. Model a figure of an art deco dancer similar to one of his then cast, copy, sell.
Some are by reputable companies or done with the artists permission. Many aren't.
It's partly why ' after ' or ' school of ' or ' follower ' is used in auction catalogues.
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In other words, these are fakes. I feel sorry for the person that paid $400 for something by "Claudion."
I wonder where the initial poster went?
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So thats why I found nothing by this sculptor !! Haven`t looked further but was curious about that if the artist was "famous" !!
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In other words, these are fakes. I feel sorry for the person that paid $400 for something by "Claudion."
I wonder where the initial poster went?
Basically.
Artists did it more frequently. Couldn't sell their work so painted in the style of someone famous and signed it in their name. Hence " Follower of Thomas Gainsborough " and the like, as you probably know.
It's often why you will see big descrepancies in sale results. An auction house might have catalogued it as an original but the experts will have known better.
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Can you please give us some background on the items? Where did they come from? Where are you located?
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They came from a now defunct Orthodox Monastery. I am located near Wimberley, TX about 25 miles west of San Marcos, TX
I know nothing else about them.
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Since when has MDCIIC been 1711 ? It's 1698 but this has been used on coins dated 1722. Maybe relates to something else, such as the date a monarch ascended to the throne ?ssssss
Claude Michel was born in 1738.
They belong in a church or catherdral
Thanks for the help on the dated. I just put the numbers in a program that gave me that date for those Roman numerals. Thanks for your help.
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He has them priced at $5 G !!
They didn't sell for $25,000 or 12,500 and they wouldn't sell.
I figure if I can't get $5,000 I take them to the scrap yard.
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Here's the ebay ended listing for them again. They have been stored in a "now defunct" monestary?! So are these legally acquired?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290847772734&item=290847772734&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290847772734&item=290847772734&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466)
AND the renowned sculptor that this is leaning towards is French Sculptor Claude Michel who is known as Clodion. This name is similar...but not the same.
Do you any more about Claude Michel?
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They're not Ebay material though. Need to be in the right auction
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They're not Ebay material though. Need to be in the right auction
Any suggestions?
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If it were me,, and I wanted to sell them I think I would try Craigslist !! Its free and a lot of people watch the listings there !! Even though you are in Wimberley,, you could list them in any major city within driving distance !! But your ad needs to appeal to a certain type buyer so explain well and tell what you know about them !! With spring almost here I could see these in a garden setting !! Give ideas how someone could use them and price them individually !! You might have better luck selling that way. Many people might buy one but not a lot would buy two of them !! You might say X amount for one or a little less for both !! Makes people feel they get a good deal !! Just remember that they will try to get the price down so decide what your bottom dollar is and start above that !!