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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Tatummoma on March 07, 2013, 07:09:56 PM
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My mother and I recently acquired 2 beautiful Tiffany style pendant lights. Inside the ceiling mounts they have the letters L&L WMC and the numbers 9089 slip 1 1/16 and 9088 slip 1/8. We have found out that L&L WMC (loevsky&loevsky white metal casting) was a company that was started in the 1930's and closed in the 1970's. We have found many L&L WMC table lamps on EBAY and such but have yet to find any information pertaining to the 2 fixtures we have. The dome shaped light has a 36 inch chain and mount and is approximately 60 and 1/4 inches around the outer bottom edge. The other light with the raised top has a 35 inch chain and mount and is approximately 69 and 3/4 inches around the outer bottom edge with the raised scoop on top being 5 inches. If anyone could help us get more information and possibly an appraisal on these two pieces it would be very much appreciated.
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Not that I know much about these lamp shades..but i can tell from the wiring that they are relatively old as this wiring looks to be obsolete...as it is 3 separate wires....and not twin and earth...single cable..
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Thank you bigwull any and all information is appreciated.
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They are plastic arent they ?? Not glass ??
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@ Mart No they are both glass here are a couple closer pictures.
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They are plastic arent they ?? Not glass ??
said with conviction...Get yourself another pair...the ones you,ve got on ain,t working...why would they have old style wiring and plastic shades.... ;D
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Even in the 30`s we used single phase, two wire circuits with a hot and a ground wire !! Where is a three wire cord ?? I couldn`t see it in the pics !! There are some things it is used for but not residential lighting in the USA that I know of !!
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Would it help any if I added a picture of the wires?
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I can see the wires the pics expand right out.for me...but then...i,m on broadband.....unlik e Mart.
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Really not necessary,, you can look at the underside of the medallion and see if there are two or three connecting wires !! I checked with several different sites and L&L WMC specialized in reproductions of earlier lighting styles !! Values on most were around $50. to $75. !! The connecting chain between the light and the ceiling medallion is not relevant for value because just like today they could add parts to extend the length and that was usually not included at purchase !! Almost all came with a certain length chain but you could add parts to make it longer for additional money !!
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http://www.artifactcollectors.com/have-you-heard-of-l-l-wmc-480844.html
Scroll down a bit. They are reproductions of the 20's.
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Thank you greenacres for the info. And mart We do know that current value is more than $50-75. We are definitely not antique experts but during our research we have learned that most collectors and what not do feel that having all original parts can increase an antiques value (IE ceiling mount and chain).
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These look to be the kind of reproductions of early Tiffany that could commonly be found over pool or kitchen tables in the 1970s. Nice that they're made of glass, but I don't think Mart was that far off in value: maybe $75-$100 apiece if you're lucky.
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To me they appear to be shades made in the 1980s and married to older wiring. The shades have leading that looks hand done in the US as opposed to the imports of the time which generally had thicker and cruder leading. Older shades were usually foiled and traces of gold can be seen. The colors are typical of the 80's. I have a small table lamp right in front of me that was made in the same colors. When I was in the lighting industry a friend of mine named Stanley from Glo Light used to bring shades on his truck and I would pick out the ones I wanted for the store. We had to wire them ourselves with clusters or we bought table lamp bases form him separately depending on the size. Table lamp shades were in the 16 to 18 inch range. He never wired them because of he had no UL registration. During the 80s mauve was very popular color. You would be hard pressed to find it used in older pieces. Stanley was an artist that could create anything from contemporary designs Tiffany Wisteria and Dragonfly repro's that were to die for. He was one of many talented glass artisans of the day but a cut above all the others. He eventually gave in to the Dale Tiffany Company's imports that were half the cost.
When items you sold as new wind up in the antique stores it means you are also vintage. Thank God the term comes from fine wine and not obsolescence.
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Even in the 30`s we used single phase, two wire circuits with a hot and a ground wire !! Where is a three wire cord ?? I couldn`t see it in the pics !! There are some things it is used for but not residential lighting in the USA that I know of !!
It does appear to have 3 wires, a double (gnd & hot) and a small ground wire.
And "yes", Mart, lots of residental lighting now uses 3-wire and/or 3-wire w/gnd. It is used for multi-bulb fixtures and mandatory for 3 or 4 way switches.
A ceiling fan with a light would have a 3-wire connection to 2 different switches.
But a single bulb fixture, ..... 2 wires is all ya need. But new Code says ya gotta have 3 to pass Inspection. 2-wire cable w/gnd ..... like the lamp above, whenever wired directly to the "main".
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In could not see the wiring in the pic !! Yes I know that three wires are used for ceiling fans ect !! Did not know that code had changed but should have expected it since nothing is simply off and on anymore !! Thats why I drive my old model Jeep instead of these darn Lincolns sitting in the driveway !! Too many bells and whistles to suit me !!
Anyway the values I gave were from other Antique sites that deal with lighting and lamps specifically !! If the person can get more than what is current value by all means do it !! I just know what they would sell for here in my area and $50. would likely be tops !! If that !!
Was looking more and another site said that L&L only made the metal parts for other companies !! Since WMC is is stamped on it that is very likely !! Glass part could have been made by any lighting company but bought metal parts from L&L !!
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In could not see the wiring in the pic !! Yes I know that three wires are used for ceiling fans ect !! Did not know that code had changed but should have expected it since nothing is simply off and on anymore !! Thats why I drive my old model Jeep instead of these darn Lincolns sitting in the driveway !! Too many bells and whistles to suit me !!
Anyway the values I gave were from other Antique sites that deal with lighting and lamps specifically !! If the person can get more than what is current value by all means do it !! I just know what they would sell for here in my area and $50. would likely be tops !! If that !!
Was looking more and another site said that L&L only made the metal parts for other companies !! Since WMC is is stamped on it that is very likely !! Glass part could have been made by any lighting company but bought metal parts from L&L !!
..Too many bells and whistles.....ha,....sounds more like Old Dog ..new tricks syndrome.... ;D
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It does look like there is a copper ground wire in there. I still say the the chain and canopy were married to a newer shade. I would like to see the socket. Is their a UL sticker on the canopy.
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Nailed it Mart (even with her SLOW INTERNET Wullie!) :) :)
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Nailed it Mart (even with her SLOW INTERNET Wullie!) :) :)
I Bow to my Elders.....Well done Mart.....LOL!
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if the company only made the metal parts then why can I only find information pertaining to lighting (IE lamps, chandeliers, wall scones etc.) on every site I visited researching them. Not trying to sound like a smarty-pants I honestly don't understand.
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It does look like there is a copper ground wire in there. I still say the the chain and canopy were married to a newer shade. I would like to see the socket. Is their a UL sticker on the canopy.
nope no stickers
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Prices for these in the UK are marginally higher,than in the US,...average prices are £75 GBP...= $125...from what i can see here,its a case of..you think they are more valuable, than what we,ve found...Its a common thing on here,...we would all like to think that what we have is the genuine article, thats worth oodles of $$, but 9 times out of 10..it is,nt...and that,s it in a nutshell,...we can only say what we have found...and sometimes people think....Ha,what do they know...well, we are only as good as the information that is out there..and with these lamps..its telling us...low $50 high $125...if you can find a buyer...ebay is choc full of these...and some are more elaborate than yours...but they are not selling....Why!!...cause China has made far too many of them....
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if the company only made the metal parts then why can I only find information pertaining to lighting (IE lamps, chandeliers, wall scones etc.) on every site I visited researching them. Not trying to sound like a smarty-pants I honestly don't understand.
Tatu, if I correctly understand your question .......
Probably 90+% of the items that you purchase are produced or manufactured with parts, pieces, etc. that were purchased from a "vendor" or supplier that specializes in supplying said item(s) to other manufacturers of retail products.
Vendors will oftentimes put their logo, initials, name, etc., on an item if it does not affect the appearance of the finished product. Eg: the metal lamp parts.
And usually, those metal lamp parts, and the lightbulb socket itself, will be the only 2 parts of the lamp that will be "marked" and said "marks" only have significance during the assembly of the lamp itself and/or if the customer needs to order a new or replacement part.
Anyway, the producer/supplier of the lamp will never mention said vendor "marks", but the person who is researching, looking for, selling, etc., said lamp will usually make mention of said "marks" and thus the reason for your "search" results.
Tatu, iffen you want to find out about the company that made those metal parts, that is if it is still in business, then here is "the place to go", to wit:
The Thomas Register
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Register (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Register)
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And lighting companies still do the same !! If you go to buy a chandelier,, unless it is a high end piece,,the glass part is not marked,, but the metal parts are stamped when made with usually company and reorder number !! If you will notice all that you find are marked on the metal base ect and thats why your searches are finding them !! Many assume that is the maker but if that were the case the company would be something to that effect instead of WMC,, white metal casting !! White metal is an inexpensive alloy that has been used for many years to make reproductions of everything from fake bronzes to lighting parts like yours !!