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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: TIMNRYAN on March 12, 2013, 08:34:21 AM
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I found this while cleaning out my new homes backyard. I cannot find any markings, or dates on it but it appears to be made out of bronze, in the picture it looks rusty but it isn't. Does anyone have a clue to what this may be. The angel looks like he is holding a sword that is bent into his head, and on the left wing the is a face in the wing... kind of creepy. Hope someone can help. Thank you for reading.
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Now that is a goodern, .... looks like it hung from the ceiling.
I have never seen one like it, a picture or otherwise.
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Unique to say the least!
What are the dimensions, and where on the planet are you located?
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Rauville, I am located in Apopka Florida. It is roughly 2 feet in length, and about 1 foot in width. From what I am hearing on the message board its a one of a kind!! ;D
Hopefully someone can guide me in the right direction.
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In Florida, huh?
You might have to check Spanish historical documents ....... and take it to someone that is smart enough to tell you what the metal is. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Here's a somewhat similar one that they identify as Gabriel. I would perhaps suggest that yours protrays the Archangel Michael, after slaying the devil. ???
http://www.rubylane.com/item/760314-1393/Scarce-Religious-Ceremonial-Archangel-Gabriel (http://www.rubylane.com/item/760314-1393/Scarce-Religious-Ceremonial-Archangel-Gabriel)
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The man with the Book that knows everything...has done it again....well done Rauville....hope you like these...
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Good one! Nice price, too.
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That is so cool!!!! that is almost identical! Tank you so much for the help. I only started the account to find that out, but looks like I will start treasure hunting and see what else I can dig up !!! lol Big thanks to Rauville for finding this!!!!
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I uploaded TIMNRY's photo and enlarged a section of it to show the details of the craftsmanship.
Thus, I still believe it to be an "original" hand-made, one-of-a-kind .... that is much, much older than the "repo" one that Rauville found listed on Ruby Lane.
PS: or you can "click" on TIMNRY's posted photo and then "click it" again to enlarge it.
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but if the repo one was buried in a backyard...for a few years..then it too would look like this one of a kind...don,t you think....
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...don,t you think....
No I don't, the composition of the metals in the "repo" one would produce a different patina.
It is the "hand-tooled" design on the flat surfaces that defines it as an "old n' rare" one.
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Thank you guys so much for all of your help!! Does anyone know of a reputable antique dealer that would be able to give me any kind of estimate, or maybe get a little more history about the piece locally in Florida? I may just hold on to it as it is very unique! but would like to know more about its origins. Thanks to all who have taken the time to help me out!! ;D ;D ;D
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Sometimes when I look at these things I get a "feeling" if you want to call it that of where its from !! For some reason Portugal hits on this one !! Is there a history of Portugese settling in your area ??
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No that I am aware of. I spoke to the company yesterday that had the "repro" up for auction, but they cared more about selling me the one that they had than to offer any insight to its origins. To be honest the lady that answered the phone was quite rude! I have always steered clear of the antiques places just because most that I have dealt with where the same way. But from this message board I can see that there is bad/good apples in all walks of life lol. You guys have been so helpful it is much appreciated!! The hardest part is to find out any information on the piece because there is very little on the web that lends any help. Or maybe I just don't have a clue as to how to search the web for the right keywords. I have also emailed Anthony Slayter-Ralph from antiques roadshow to hopefully find some information, although holding my breath for a response is probably not a great idea!
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you could try here
http://www.portuguesefoundation.org/
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Thank you, I emailed them as well! Although the only contact us option was at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, Hopefully they will have some answers if is indeed Portuguese. Thank you ;D
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Don`t misunderstand,, I said just a feeling,, I have absolutely no basis or knowledge of anything Portuguese !! So take it with a grain of sand !! Could be and most likely am way off base with this one !!
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I completely understand, I am just trying to find out what it is that I have and where it might have came from. Trust me I have no knowledge what so ever in antiques, but I do know that there are no screws holding anything in place, and it looks as though it was hand made by someone who knew what they were doing!! so it would have to be old !! ;D ;D ;D
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Don`t misunderstand,, I said just a feeling,, I have absolutely no basis or knowledge of anything Portuguese !! So take it with a grain of sand !! Could be and most likely am way off base with this one !!
try pinch of salt....you had a feeling it was Portuguese...now you think you,re way off base...just like a woman...can never make their mind up.....no wonder i,ve not got any hair left.... ;D
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So after scouring the internet and checking at the local museums, I was told the best thing to do is to send an e-mail to the Smithsonian Institute and see if they can identify the piece. Lets hope that we can figure this out because it is killing me not knowing what this is or the history, or origins!!!! Thanks again for everyone's help!!, if anyone can think of any other place that I can send pictures to get more information, please let me know. Thank you
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I was just in Apopka, Mt. Dora, Sanford and Eustis!!! Lotsa' family live all around that area!
I found some of my most prized antiques and vintage items there!!!! Welcome!
For background folks, this area was full of settlers from all over. You will find some of the most varied/diverse items!
I agree this is an old piece!!!!!
This might help...
My family/relatives were BIG citrus growers in this neck-of-the-woods (sold the groves and most are housing developments these days). My grandfather purchased lots of land around the areas and there were several large settlements of peoples that might bear some significance on this piece.
There was a large Swedish Community in this area of FL. In face, one of the larger ones was on my grandfather's property on Upsala Road in Sanford and the cemetary is still there AND the original church is still there! Just got pics of it again last week! http://swedishcluboforlando.blogspot.com/2009/11/uppsal-cemetary-sanford-florida-near.html (http://swedishcluboforlando.blogspot.com/2009/11/uppsal-cemetary-sanford-florida-near.html)
There was also a large Dutch settlement in that area that most folks don't know about. (In fact the Dutch Mill Nursery owners/good friends ion Upsala Road across from the Swedish cemetery, are descendents of these settlers and are the most successful bulb growers - their biggest client is Disney!) Good friends of my family!! Just helped them celebrate 50 years in business last year!
Could be wrong...but your piece does bear resemblance to items I have seen from the Swedish community over the years!
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There is another avenue to look at !! I haven`t found anything from anywhere on it or another like it but its hard to search when you really don`t know what it is or what it is for !!!
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when you really don`t know what it is or what it is for !!!
We know from looking at the picture the following design criteria:
1. The candelabra was intentionally made in four (4) distinct parts/pieces, with three (3) moveable links holding the pieces together.
2. The large hole in the top of the topmost part was made to hang the candelabra from the ceiling or overhead beam, either via a peg, a nail or a rope/cord …. or from the end of a pole.
3. The center link was specifically designed to only permit movement in one (1) horizontal plane.
4. Given the topmost hole and the three (3) moveable links, I have to assume that this candelabra was made to withstand pretty much constant motion or swinging action, and if so, would explain the design of the center link as being a “damper” to stabilize the swinging movement.
Given the above, the pictured candelabra would have worked just fine hanging in the Captain’s quarters of a sailing ship/vessel … or carried hanging from the end of pole during a ceremony or parade.
Another question is, what type, species or “icon” are those two bird figures supposed to represent? Knowing the answer to that question would probably determine its origin.
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I'm thinking religious but not for Christmas. In vintage and older German items you will see delicate items made of wood and in Sweden you will see them made of brass for Christmas time.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28772513@N07/7814135018/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/28772513@N07/7814135018/)
Another one...but different in symbolism
http://www.etsy.com/listing/111435589/rare-vintage-wall-hangingcandle-holder (http://www.etsy.com/listing/111435589/rare-vintage-wall-hangingcandle-holder)
The birds remind me of ones you see all the time in Pennsylvania Dutch fabrics and art work!!! AND the hex signs are very common of Pennsylvania Dutch - to ward off evil spirits. This became popular during the witch hunts in the northeast! So, leaning toward the Dutch settlements here....
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I noticed that too KC but the hex signs are different from those I have seen that are PD !!
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Mart, there were/are so many hex signs it's amazing. Did some research on them awhile back..and there were traditional ones and then there were the personalized ones.
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I'm still inclined to think that Saint Michael is depicted here, and the piece was possibly used for the yearly Feast of Saint Michael. ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaelmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaelmas)
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Thanks to everyone on all the help and information!! I have yet to find anything out that definitively tells me where this came from. I did however email a radio show host in Austin Texas " The antique Man" Hopefully he can help out! Thai is getting to be cray that we can find things that are soooooo similar, but not the same!! I will continue to keep everyone updated if I find anything out. Thanks again to all that have contributed !!! ;D :D ;D
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Rauville, I agree about Michael, but know that the Dutch would use items like this all year long as well.
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I agree KC, I searched Dutch antique candelabra and found the same one that was posted on here. I does appear to be Dutch, The age of the piece is what I would love to find out. of the two that I have seen that were close, were not nearly as detailed as the one that I have.....
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Please do let us know !! I am curious !!
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If anyone has plans to watch Les Miserables, keep a watch out in the early part of the movie when Jean Valjean is in the church where the priest gives him refuge. In the scene where he paces frantically back and forth through what looks like a long 'hallway' or gallery (towards an alter of sorts and back), watch the ceiling area. I'm near positive I saw something very similar hanging over his head in two of the shots............hu bby refused to rewind and pause for me :P
I've tried googling pictures from the actual church used (St. Mary the Virgin, Ewelme, Oxfordshire), but no luck in spotting them. Possibly this particular scene was shot in a staged setting.
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If anyone has plans to watch Les Miserables, keep a watch out in the early part of the movie when Jean Valjean is in the church where the priest gives him refuge. In the scene where he paces frantically back and forth through what looks like a long 'hallway' or gallery (towards an alter of sorts and back), watch the ceiling area. I'm near positive I saw something very similar hanging over his head in two of the shots............hu bby refused to rewind and pause for me :P
I've tried googling pictures from the actual church used (St. Mary the Virgin, Ewelme, Oxfordshire), but no luck in spotting them. Possibly this particular scene was shot in a staged setting.
When you go to work next....be sure to take hubby,s stock of ciggies,..hide car keys, leave him with no money...then when you come home,just say, "hiya sweetie did ya have a nice day"....but under yer breath it might be...miserable old **** ;D
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Don't mean the top of this, do you ?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg)
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Don't mean the top of this, do you ?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg)
Nope! Saw that and got really excited till I noticed what all was was attached. The one I noticed was very similar to the poster's and definitely didn't have a mountain of metal hanging from it ;)
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If anyone has plans to watch Les Miserables, keep a watch out in the early part of the movie when Jean Valjean is in the church where the priest gives him refuge. In the scene where he paces frantically back and forth through what looks like a long 'hallway' or gallery (towards an alter of sorts and back), watch the ceiling area. I'm near positive I saw something very similar hanging over his head in two of the shots............hu bby refused to rewind and pause for me :P
I've tried googling pictures from the actual church used (St. Mary the Virgin, Ewelme, Oxfordshire), but no luck in spotting them. Possibly this particular scene was shot in a staged setting.
When you go to work next....be sure to take hubby,s stock of ciggies,..hide car keys, leave him with no money...then when you come home,just say, "hiya sweetie did ya have a nice day"....but under yer breath it might be...miserable old **** (git ?) ;D
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Don't mean the top of this, do you ?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-B1JdNIIGhjA/UI1XyP06G9I/AAAAAAAALZk/bmVkSwk0v54/s1600/IMG_6767.jpg)
you,d be better getting in touch with Mart...she gets good milk bottle bottoms for a couple of $$...thats nowt like what,s on here.... ;D
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The hanging bit could be similar from a distance.
I've seen the film but have no idea what she's talking about.
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She,s talking about the thing...that this topic is about....
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In the film !
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Are you being obtuse...or does it just come naturally...where else do you think she was talking about....
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In the film !
Ipcress, if you remember the part in the film where JVJ paces back and forth from some sort of alter then along a corridor type area wondering how he can turn his life around (he then exits the church to the outside)........as he travels the length and back there are a couple of brief shots where what appears to be a similar type 'candle holder' is hanging over his head. I'm trying to remember if this is before or after he steals the silver from the church, thinking it's after.
Just wondering about country of origin. We've already mentioned Dutch, if this is in the church used for the scenes it's in the UK, if a staged scene it may be a prop for/from a French church. Here are two more similar style holders.......but with nothing concrete in origin either (both located in Indiana, US)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VTG-Brass-ST-GEORGE-Crucifix-icon-Hanging-Candle-Holder-Russian-Dou-Headed-EAGLE-/150858809407#ht_1663wt_896
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VTG-Brass-ST-GEORGE-Crucifix-icon-Hanging-Candle-Holder-ENAMELED-/151009552803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2328dee9a3#ht_2070wt_896
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Found another.........but still no concrete info. >:( This one is located in NY state.
http://www.etsy.com/listing/111714746/gothic-hanging-candle-holder?ref=v1_other_1
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They all seem to combine like/similar symbols.......with the exception being that TIMNRYAN's human figure has wings.
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I still don't think they are "wall-hangers" ....... because as you can see by those 2 pictures of those in Indiana ...... they pose a fire hazard.