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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: billh on March 18, 2013, 12:19:35 PM

Title: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 18, 2013, 12:19:35 PM
not sure if this the correct location to post this, I have a broach given to me by my great aunt, has anyone seen this one before. or know anything about it?
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 18, 2013, 01:00:51 PM
You are in the correct forum for questions !!  Welcome to the group !!
Can you correct the pic so it isn`t sideways and take another of the back too !!  Thanks !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 18, 2013, 01:14:22 PM
how's this?
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 18, 2013, 04:18:29 PM
 Are you here in the U.S. ??
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 18, 2013, 05:39:06 PM
Yes, just east of Cleveland Ohio.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 18, 2013, 06:56:56 PM
When looking at the back I see grain lines but these pics will not enlarge in that format !!  Is the color the same as it looks in the pics ??  Looks kind of yellow or a cream color that has darkened over the years !!  Thought it might be ivory but cant see the back well enough to tell !!  Did your Great Aunt tell you anything about it ??
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 18, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
Yes I believe it to be Ivory, I did a hot needle test, no indent. The bottom is not curved, I believe that rules out shell, but I don't know the era, or whom it is ? Or the value. Have you ever seen this woman on a broach before? And there is no discernible mfg. stamp.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 18, 2013, 08:07:47 PM
Could also be bone which was commonly used !! Need to see the grain better on the back !! Can you change the pic to a jpeg format ??  I have not seen this person but many times whatever the royality of the nation where it was made was used !!  What ancestry was your great aunt ??  A mark was usually on the metal mount if it was marked at all !!
Is the grain on the back just a straight grain or is there some crosshatching ???
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 18, 2013, 08:59:23 PM
Please post the dimensions of the piece as well.

It could also be stone.  Is it cold to the touch?
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 18, 2013, 10:18:33 PM
Yes I will take better pics format to jpeg, and no not cold, little cooler than room temp. She never told me anything about it, will re post in morning.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Ipcress on March 19, 2013, 05:54:38 AM
If that's ivory i'll....

what's the forum standard for such sentences ?  ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 19, 2013, 07:24:24 AM
That's just it, I don't know ... ( sorta why I'm on here)!

My wife said it could be stone or bone to.
It's about an inch by half inch. I will measure and repost better pics.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 19, 2013, 07:34:52 AM
If that's ivory i'll....

what's the forum standard for such sentences ?  ;D


"If that's ivory I'll eat my shorts."
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 09:31:47 AM
The color is what is confusing !!  Have you tried to clean it ??  It looks too yellow and dark !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 19, 2013, 09:37:44 AM
I have never cleaned it! Was afraid of ruining it!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 10:00:07 AM
Just some dish soap and water on a Q-tip and rub the back to see if its dirt, smoke, ect !!  Drop of dish soap to tablespoon of water !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 19, 2013, 10:18:09 AM
here are 2 more pics. .in a jpeg format.
I don't have a scale but it is really light.

Mart / KC- I don't know her ancestry, and yes it looks just as dark yellow as the pics. I laid it next to a ruler. hope this helps.

IPcress /Ghopper- neither of you have to "eat your shorts". but I will take that as you don't believe it to be Ivory, got it.
 but do you have any useful information? ie. Era? whom is on it? who made it?
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 19, 2013, 10:57:39 AM
Actually I don't know what the material is, I was just completing Ipcress' thought.

The cameo looks like a Greco-Roman goddess figure like Hera/Juno or perhaps It's an allegorical figure like "Liberty" or "Wisdom." Without more to go on my wild guess is that it's from ca. 1900, though it could also be from the early 19th century neoclassical period.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: gg27 on March 19, 2013, 11:59:36 AM
Looks to me like it could be a 1930's celluloid cameo. GG
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 02:35:53 PM
Don`t think its celluloid with that graining !! It looks to me like hand carved bone with that lengthwise graining and it has a few scratches from the carving process, but the mounting does not appear to be gold !! So this to me says that it was an inexpensive cameo when it was purchased !!  Probably around 1900 or slightly after !! I am guessing that the cameo part was possibly dyed to make it stand out in the setting better !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Ipcress on March 19, 2013, 02:44:30 PM
Looks like a resin to me.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 04:59:29 PM
He has already checked for resin !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 19, 2013, 05:17:48 PM
He has already checked for resin !!
Maybe you should lend him a pair of your cheaters.... ;D....
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Ipcress on March 19, 2013, 06:24:53 PM
He has already checked for resin !!

More than one type - are you talking about the needle test ? It doesn't always work
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 07:34:58 PM
Did you enlarge it and look at it ??  Resin doesn`t have grain like that  !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 19, 2013, 08:06:13 PM
The setting resembles more of that you would see in late 1800's to early 1900's.  Need a better closeup of the cameo face please.

When I first saw this I thought it might have been a lava cameo...but the graining has to be stone or bone - most likely the later.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 19, 2013, 08:11:59 PM
Well, At least KC agrees with me !!   Those last pics will enlarge KC,, if that helps !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Rauville on March 19, 2013, 09:55:09 PM
If those are grapes on her head, could be one of the Bacchante girls. ;)
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 02:39:45 AM
Did you enlarge it and look at it ??  Resin doesn`t have grain like that  !!
If thats resin...he won,t have to eat is shorts...i,ll eat them for him.... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: cogar on March 20, 2013, 03:29:02 AM
Quote
This particularly lovely antique shell cameo captures a classical Mediterranean enchantress with a grape vine wreath adorning her flowing locks. A beautiful carving with a rope motif frame of rose gold.  Price: $1,150.00

http://www.langantiques.com/products/item/50-1-2668

http://www.langantiques.com/products/type/cameos/publish_date/desc/all




Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 04:18:06 AM
If those are grapes on her head, could be one of the Bacchante girls. ;)

I saw at least a few grapes and leaves on enlargement !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 04:36:38 AM
If those are grapes on her head, could be one of the Bacchante girls. ;)

I saw at least a few grapes and leaves on enlargement !!
and their the seedless variety.... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 05:54:31 AM
Wouldn`t look good spitting seeds would she ??? :D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Rauville on March 20, 2013, 07:05:07 AM
In looking closer at the cameo in question...that "graining" on the back looks more like tool marks to me.  ???

Check the following page about 1/2+ way down (below the ring).
There is a left-facing "Gold mounted Victorian Bacchante Wine
Goddess Mount Vesuvius volcanic lava antique cameo brooch"
.

http://www.victoriana.com/Jewelry/cameojewelry.htm (http://www.victoriana.com/Jewelry/cameojewelry.htm)

(Question: Were left-facing cameos done by left-handed carvers?)
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 07:10:44 AM
Look behind the tool marks Rauville !!  The tool marks go in different directions the grain is only lengthwise !!  What do you think ??
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 07:18:14 AM
Look behind the tool marks Rauville !!  The tool marks go in different directions the grain is only lengthwise !!  What do you think ??
maybe he should try these,..good for looking behind things...all the rage in 1950,s  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 07:25:02 AM
...And a band name in the late 70s.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 07:39:09 AM
Also, I'm not saying it can't be lava, but lava is typically clay or brown colored,  not yellow.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 07:50:53 AM
...And a band name in the late 70s.
Not my cup of Tea...... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 07:58:46 AM
You mean to say that you weren't a "germ free adolescent? "

"Oh bondage up yours!"  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 07:59:31 AM
 ;D  Never heard of it !!!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 08:00:05 AM
You mean to say that you weren't a "germ free adolescent? "

"Oh bondage up yours!"  ;D ;D ;D
oops,forgot to add...I was more of a Transylvanian Transvestite,...than a germ free adolescant....mind you having said that...did have the screaming ab dabs..a couple of times..with awakening in strange beds.....but nothing that the nurse at the clinic could,nt get rid of ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 08:02:11 AM
Yeeeeesssss??? ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 08:08:06 AM
Yeeeeesssss??? ;D
Neu!!....brilliant...... .
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 08:12:05 AM
;D  Never heard of it !!!
that,s where you sheltered upbringing lets you down.... ;D...nowt like a good bit of weed..and some Amon Duul!!....Focus!,...Tangerine Dream....and the Scorpions.... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 20, 2013, 08:13:33 AM
you guys are too funny,;

I tried getting better pics for you,
I think it is the Greek god of wine Bacchus.
I think it is carved from Lava.( don't know why its yellowish )that's why I took pics over yellow paper for comparison.
I did try cleaning it up like you said with soup and a qtip.
with the plain setting ( not lavish design ) I think it to be older.
 what are your thoughts?
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 08:16:24 AM
I,m partial to Soup,....Puy Lentil & Chorizo....yummy
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 20, 2013, 08:22:21 AM
soap.. haha. sorry we'll blame spell check for my literacy issues.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 08:24:59 AM
Well,  Speedy's Coming,  and I see you've met my......handyman. Just be careful with that axe,  Eugene, while you're messing with that Tea Set,  because you don 't have enough Hocus pocus to fix it. At least that's what the Archangel's Thunderbird told me over at Wolf City!!! ;D :D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 08:31:26 AM
And you can hear the barking of the Dog Fox.gone to ground.....and the several species of small furry animals gathered together in a cave grooving with a Pict.....oops off topic...back on..thats quite a large relief..i can see where that Englander.got the idea about resin....me i preferred the other kind....High Hopes.... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 08:32:45 AM
Well,  Bacchus was a male,  so this can't be Bacchus. I'd stick with the idea that this is a bacchante, I.e. a reveler at one of his wine bashes. It is possible that this may be a bit older than 1900,  so saying "late 19th century" would probably cover it.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
;D  Never heard of it !!!
that,s where you sheltered upbringing lets you down.... ;D...nowt like a good bit of weed..and some Amon Duul!!....Focus!,...Tangerine Dream....and the Scorpions.... ;D

Yes and I would have been booted (literally) out of the Rodeo !!  So I passed !!!  Just a good beer was all for me !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 09:41:08 AM
did,nt know they did good beer in Texas....any American beers i,ve had..were always like pishy watter.... ;D..pardon my French...
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 09:45:45 AM
did,nt know they did good beer in Texas....any American beers i,ve had..were always like pishy watter.... ;D..pardon my French...
[/quote

In decades past I'd agree with you.

However,  with the advent of microbreweries and larger regionals like Boulevard and Fat Tire,  American beer is much improved these days.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 20, 2013, 10:13:03 AM
port, microbrew, lager. I thought it was wine??
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: ghopper1924 on March 20, 2013, 10:18:33 AM
It was. We just got off on a beer tangent!!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 20, 2013, 10:25:54 AM
port, microbrew, lager. I thought it was wine??
Plonk...did someone mention Plonk....take half a pint of cheap red Plonk,..add half a pint of fat Pepsi...after 2 pints....just don,t expect to get anywhere in a hurry....much cheapness...very much drunkeness...Mart.. take note....do not think about getting on a Nag!! ;D.now we,re on a wine tangent...or as the Germans call it...Korea...cause it gives you.....dose of the Do run,runs..... ;D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 20, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Much to most people's surprise...lava cameos come in black, brick red, white and beige!!!!  The most popular were made in Italy in 1800's!

And depending on how it cooled...can have striations similar to bone...would need a hands on to differentiate!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 20, 2013, 08:50:13 PM
port, microbrew, lager. I thought it was wine??
Plonk...did someone mention Plonk....take half a pint of cheap red Plonk,..add half a pint of fat Pepsi...after 2 pints....just don,t expect to get anywhere in a hurry....much cheapness...very much drunkeness...Mart.. take note....do not think about getting on a Nag!! ;D.now we,re on a wine tangent...or as the Germans call it...Korea...cause it gives you.....dose of the Do run,runs..... ;D

Getting on a "nag" while a little,,, tipsy is all in my past !!  And I learned better !!!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: Ipcress on March 21, 2013, 01:59:00 PM
Did you enlarge it and look at it ??  Resin doesn`t have grain like that  !!

No, but it doesn't look like grain. Just scraped.

Anyway, i don't rate it.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 23, 2013, 09:48:35 AM
Let us kow what you find out!

I'm leaning towards lava....
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 23, 2013, 10:32:22 AM
I am still going with bone !!!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: billh on March 23, 2013, 11:17:45 AM
thank you for all your in put, I will be sure to keep you posted as soon as I have it appraised.
looks like I will have to go that route to get an actual dollar amount.
thank you all for your insight.
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 23, 2013, 01:25:20 PM
You may have to spend more than its worth for an appraisal !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 23, 2013, 02:10:06 PM
Nothing if she goes to Great Western Auctions..in Glasgow Scotland...send pics..then they,ll give you a free appraisal...
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 23, 2013, 02:24:44 PM
Was looking on ebay for something similar and found another possibility,,,coral !! Has that same yellow color !! I am saying yellow but thats because it looks that way on my computer !!  I think its more like coffee with cream !! More cream lighter color !! Coral comes in a variety of colors !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 23, 2013, 03:56:14 PM
where will it all end...we,ve had resin,ivory,bone lava, now coral...and maybe stone.... :D
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 23, 2013, 05:34:23 PM
Well not much else going on !! Might as well debate the cameo !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 23, 2013, 05:37:02 PM
Oops...Mart you are right....still leaning towards lava and/or bone!!!!

I enlarged the pic as well.  Doesn't "look" like resin!!!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: bigwull on March 23, 2013, 07:04:58 PM
Well not much else going on !! Might as well debate the cameo !!
well there is the weather, or the horse meat debacle thats raging in the UK...or the fact that i,ve nearly finished the front sitting room...and there,s only pictures to hang and curtains to buy...then i,ll post some more pics....and i,m busy making wood slab tables....that will never see the inside of my woodburner....
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 23, 2013, 08:42:59 PM
Ahhh,, so you have been busy ???  Hurry with those pics !!
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: KC on March 24, 2013, 04:01:01 PM
Love your humor Mart!!!  LOLOL
Title: Re: cameo, question
Post by: mart on March 24, 2013, 07:08:06 PM
I am looking forward to seeing his house !!  Will be better than HGTV reruns !!
( And I know he has been, and still is, working hard on it !! )