Antique-shop.com
Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: robgil on March 22, 2013, 04:20:29 PM
-
Hi, I have a two over three chest of drawers. It looks like Walnut veneer on Oak however it could be Mahogany. The dovatails are hand cut and quite large. The chest is quite large, around chest height. It has dust guards below each drawer, the back is panelled with two panels and one support down the middle. It stands on four elongated bun feet. I dont think the side panels are veneered. It has quite badly split on the sides and top.
I can load up some detailed photos either later tonight or tomorrow.
Can anyone tell me what tell tale singes to look for while dating such a piece?
-
More pics are essential,over here on the older side of the pond...this is known as a 2 over 3 chest of drawers...circa mid to late Victorian,..pine versions over here in A.1 condition fetch around £200/300..this one will be a bit less, see pics of Victorian pine 2 over 3
-
Need a few more pics !! Back, dovetails on the large drawer,closeup of entire piece would be great and one of the top !!
Also need your location !!
-
Cheers fella, I'm down here in Suffolk so I think I'm on your side of the pond? I shall get some more photos later tonight or tomorrow. My first thoughts were early Victorian due to looking at photos on the net however early furniture afaik would have been solid and not veneered? What I really need to know is when they started to use veneer although I know this by itself wont provide enough evidence to date it accurately. The feet also look early but again I have not enough experience to make an accurate date on it. Also, I have seen most Victorian veneered furniture to have sounded edges and I have read that early veneered chests were straight?
I guess until I get the photos we are just shooting in the dark.
-
I'm just loading some detailed photos onto photobucket, should have them up in a few minutes.
-
This one of yours looks more like Mahogany,..i,d be surprised if its oak underneath...the drawers may be oak lined...this was used as it did,nt move the way pine did...i.e. shrinkage/expansion..= sticking drawers...the main body of the piece is almost certainly pine,..the back board will have the centre piece with channels cut into it..and the panels inserted this was for stability.....i,m going to stick with it being around 1860/80,
-
Thanks fella, I was thinking Victorian repro of something earlier but as I said I am too inexperienced to make any certain judgements.
Here are some closer pics, anything more specific will have to wait until tomorrow or I would only wake the kids, she'd kill me.
Dovetails to bottom drawer.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2328.jpg)
Inside bottom drawer
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2329.jpg)
Inside top drawer hole.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2330.jpg)
Top
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2331.jpg)
Inside bottom drawer
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2332.jpg)
Bottom drawer rear dovetails.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2333.jpg)
Inside bottom drawer compartment
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2334.jpg)
Back from inside
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2335.jpg)
Drawer front
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2336.jpg)
Foot
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2337.jpg)
back
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2338.jpg)
Side
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2341.jpg)
Small top drawer back
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2342.jpg)
Inside small top drawer.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2343.jpg)
Small top drawer face
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2344.jpg)
Small drawer front dovatails
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2345.jpg)
Small drawer rear dovetails
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2346.jpg)
Bottom front small top drawer
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2347.jpg)
Bottom small drawer
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2348.jpg)
Rear small drawer
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2349.jpg)
Rear small drawer face
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2350.jpg)
Sorry it took so long. Photobucket is even slower than me.
-
Forgot to add, the drawer pulls are held in place with large screws made from wood.
-
its as i thought, the carcase is pine, the drawers oak lined...the splits are horrendous....and as for photobucket being as slow as you....well, just be thankfull you are in Suffolk....and not in Texas....where its 3 steps forward and 2 back... ;D...like these
http://www.tuxfordfurniturehardware.co.uk/myshop/cat_117937-Drawer-Knobs-for-the-Craftsman-Restorer.html
-
Thanks Bigwull, for some reason I thought you were Scottish. ???
Yes , those are the screws, they threw me a bit , I wasnt expecting those. Is there any reason why the sides are not veneered? Or are they? They seem ruff to the touch. My first thoughts were it was close to or in a fire, one of the drawer pulls looks burnt and blistered and as you say the cracks are horrendous. I thought the side may have lost or had it veneer damaged by being sat beside a fire.
-
Are both sides the same ?? Looks like 1880 to 1900 !! Appears to be a mahogany case with pine as secondary wood although I saw a few supports that were mahogany too and what looks like a walnut back although thats a dark pic, could be wrong on that one !! Pretty typical construction for the UK !! Its difficult to remove veneer without some trace being left !! That top can be repaired without much difficulty !! If you are going to keep it I would have it done !! Don`t want to remove too much of the age factor !! Its not a particularly valuable chest but would be good storage !!
-
Do you mean are the carcase side,s veneered...if so yes,..as for being Scottish...well according to one particular,Genteel Lady ...i, am an ornery Scotsman...which i took to be a compliment....at any other time, i,m a Grumpy old git....who does,nt suffer fools gladly...now back to your 2 over 3...which BTW...would not find its way into my ever hungry woodburner....cos i like 2 over3,s...they hold a lot, and the bottom drawer is for blankets, and in the 18/19century, it doubled as a sleeping cot for wee Jimmy or Mary... :)
-
Great minds think alike....and either i,m getting more like a Genteel Texan or you might become an honorary Scots Lass...note Honorary....unlike ornery..which is bad tempered & combative. ;)
-
Nothing wrong with being a grumpy old git, its every mans right. ;D
So looking at the pics the side still has it's veneer? It looked like pine to me. Thats good news. Not sure on if to fix the finish or not, if I fix it it will mean rubbing it down slightly with wire wool and I am a big fan of preserving a patina, even fire damaged ones. I took one of the drawer pulls off and it left a small circle of the original finish, its a nice deep red shellac finish.For some reason its gone brown over the years, which is why I though it may have been walnut.
-
If it was mine, I,d be leaving it as it is, its functional, looks not too bad.....and if anyone commented otherwise...I,d ask them to shut the door as the leave....and as Sergie would say.....simples...w hich i have no doubt you,ll understand...but them on the new side of the pond...well,it,ll be lost on them... ;D
-
My thoughts exactly Bigwull, I'm glad you said people slept in these, after all the noise I have made tonight I reckon I'll be sleeping in it, Lucky I'm not eating it, she said.
-
My thoughts exactly Bigwull, I'm glad you said people slept in these, after all the noise I have made tonight I reckon I'll be sleeping in it, Lucky I'm not eating it, she said.
I see you are the same as me....when the boss is,nt in, you,ll be the Boss...but when she,is in you,ll do as your told...i,ve got one just like her,sitting opposite as i type....now i,m off to bed .. ;D....
-
All I would do is have the top repaired so it doesn`t split farther !! All you need is at least three pipe clamps, good quality wood glue and patience !! I would not touch the finish !! Don`t think its turned brown but may have been refinished at some time in the past !! I thought it looked like it may have been !! Saw some gunk that should not have been there !!
Thought you would have a grin at that "ornery Scotsman" remark !!
-
I think its done all the splitting its going to do...I don,t see it getting any bigger...
-
All I would do is have the top repaired so it doesn`t split farther !! All you need is at least three pipe clamps, good quality wood glue and patience !!
Mart, I don't think the top will split any further.
And I wouldn't even think about gluing and clamping that top board back together because things are going to start .... poppin, snappin and crackin .... the minute you start tightening up on those pipe-clamps.
Look at the picture titled “Inside Top Drawer Hole” and the bottom of the picture titled “Top” and you will see what I'm talking about.
Now it might be possible to put the pipe-clamps on the top, with a scrap board ;D ;D strip between the clamp face and the edge of the top, and then snug the clamps tight but don't force them. Then once every week or two .... tweak those clamps tighter a wee bit.
Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like.
And ps, 4 or 5 pipe-clamps would be better if the above is attempted.
-
There you go again Cogar....more Gobbledygook,....you and Mart are talking about pipe clamps,...as if we all know what they are....but we don,t....when you are discussing remedies...maybe you should first look to see where the item is,..before saying t should be done this way or that....Over here in the UK...where said chest of drawers is....these "pipe"clamps,..are unknown to us, but if you had said ...use a Sash Clamp....then we,d know what you were talking about..... :D
-
"Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like"
Maybe if it was built proper in the first place...there would be no need for .."jacking it up"...Don,t you guys put in stone/concrete foundations....this house that we,re in has stone foundations..to a depth of 7ft...then the outside walls 20in thick stone....and apart from settlement cracks when it was first built, in 1890..it has,nt moved ......the walls are still plumb..and the floors/ceilings are still level....
-
"Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like"
Maybe if it was built proper in the first place...there would be no need for .."jacking it up"...Don,t you guys put in stone/concrete foundations....this house that we,re in has stone foundations..to a depth of 7ft...then the outside walls 20in thick stone....and apart from settlement cracks when it was first built, in 1890..it has,nt moved ......the walls are still plumb..and the floors/ceilings are still level....
Do you have no experience with clayey soils laddie??
Our house has 18 inch thick lower story walls, made of concrete, with 12 inches on the second story. Solid! And yet we get cracking. Why? Because the soils underneath are "clayey," which means they expand, heave, and contract according to temperature and moisture. Given enough time and years they'd bring a castle down, through no fault of the builders.
-
Thankfully we don,t have this problem very much in Scotland...Here in Brechin...we have one of the oldest houses in Scotland...it dates back to the 15th century,..It was renovated last year,...but the foundations were solid...it was the upper storey and the roof that needed the work see link....
http://www.myplaceawards.org.uk/galleries/2013-gallery-of-entrants/the-merchants-house,-brechin.aspx.
-
Well done!!
-
Cogar,, thats why I said "patience" is needed !! And a bit of know how !! Yes something has to go between the clamp and the top !! I used a couple of thick old magazines at each point when I had to do something like that and each clamp should be tightened by the same amount over a period of time !! Then when close enough put the wood glue in and finish tightening once each hour or so till you get a good fit wiping any excess glue off with damp cloth between each turning !! Leave the clamps on 24 hrs before removing !!
I just think it would look better if done !!
-
If this was going to be repaired...a gap filling glue is what should be used...otherwise... you,d have what Cogar has said, snappin crackin & poppin....all that would be needed would be 3 x sash clamps...and a small bottle of Gorilla Glue,..tension the clamps against the top edge, damp the joint then apply the glue, there would be no need to tighten the clamps,...as all they are there for is to stop the glue pushing the wood apart,....once the glue has set, remove the excess, then all he,d need would be a small tin of Brummer,...then a small bottle of French Polish,....the crack will always be visible, but it won,t go anywhere,
-
Concrete foundations? Thats sacrilege! You dont use concrete on a period house. My house was built in 1520 and the sole plates were put straight down on the clay, thankfully someone came along in the mid 18thC and put brick plinths under the sole plates but they used lime, not cement.
Anyhow, back the the chest, I'd love to french polish it but again refinishing it would leave it refinished and I dont think whats left of the old finish is bad enough to warrant it.
What I have found in the past (especially working on old buildings) is if you try to repair historic movement it could cause more damage than you end up repairing and in this case I think its best left alone. I'ts done a real good job of staying together this long all by itself. Apart from the cracks all the joints seem sound and it feels very sturdy.
I have had another brief look at the sides and they really dont seem to be veneered, I cant see any traces of veneer on them at all. They seem to be stained red. I wonder if the sides were replaced at some point? One side without veneer might indicate an accident or repair but both sides?
The only thing I can think off is it was never veneered in the first place or the veneer was removed to repair something else.
-
Ive just brought the thing down stairs into the light to give it the once over. The drawer runners are badly worn and the stops are cutting into the drawer bottoms. One thing I have noticed is a mixture of press cut nails and square head nails, there are also signs of circular saw and rip saw marks on the drawer sides and bottoms. I can feel the marks of hand planing in the wood on the interior of the chest where the timber was planed by hand so its a complete mixture however I guess that as times and tools changed over the years cabinet makers might not have adopted these changes until much later on.
-
1520....= Listed building...which in turn means you may have bought it but in reality you are only the custodian...and any materials used must be in keeping with the original construction...if not..then you,d no doubt have planning and building control breathing down your neck...not forgetting..the Heritage people,A friend of mine up here in Scotland fell foul of Heritage Scotland...a few years back...she,d bought a Grade 11 listed house...she got all the relevant planning permission..from..t he council,..then started to renovate..during the brenovation..they came across a boarded up fireplace..that was not on the original plans...well, ..you know whats coming next.....They took the fireplace and surround out...as they deemed it Pot Ugly,..and they sold it...for £3000 They eventually finished the house,got their completion certificate...and that was that??....or so they thought....fast forward 8 years,..They decided to sell the house..as it was at the height of the property boom..and cash in and buy bigger...they put it on the market..within 2 weeks they,d had umpteen viewings.and An offer they could,nt refuse,....then this Pot Ugly fireplace came back to haunt them...the prospective buyers had done a very thorough search..of all the previous owners,works that had been done...and lo and behold...they found a picture that had been taken within the house in the 1920,s...and there in the forefront was this "ugly" fireplace....which as luck would have it, had been designed by the Master himself Robert Adam,...
to cut a very long story short...my friend had to buy back that same fireplace...and reinstate it into that house..and she and her husband had no change from £48,000....Listed Buildings....you can keep them...more trouble than they are worth....They might look pretty with their rustic timbers and thatched roofs, or clay tiles, and flagstoned floors, and inglenook fireplaces...but when it comes to doing work on them...you are at the mercy of the council....they say jump...you say how High...
..
They finished the house..to the satisfaction of the planners...never mentioning the fireplace...
-
"Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like"
Maybe if it was built proper in the first place...there would be no need for .."jacking it up"...Don,t you guys put in stone/concrete foundations....this house that we,re in has stone foundations..to a depth of 7ft...then the outside walls 20in thick stone....and apart from settlement cracks when it was first built, in 1890..it has,nt moved ......the walls are still plumb..and the floors/ceilings are still level....
Do you have no experience with clayey soils laddie??
Our house has 18 inch thick lower story walls, made of concrete, with 12 inches on the second story. Solid! And yet we get cracking. Why? Because the soils underneath are "clayey," which means they expand, heave, and contract according to temperature and moisture. Given enough time and years they'd bring a castle down, through no fault of the builders.
We are on pier and beam sitting on top of sugar sand first two feet and red clay and coal under that !! Not perfect but not bad either !! Built in the 50`s !!
-
Luck would have it our cottage isnt listed. Its built on an Oak timber frame with wattle and daub infills and mud and stud on some walls. One half of it has a Georgian fireplace, the other an inglenook built out of Tudor bricks, it's thatched. Its basically a two bay cottage with a cross entrance. One half had burned down in 1760 and was rebuilt in Elm although the corner studs are original. It has a clay lump lean-to on the back.
I know what you mean by us being the custodians and this means it is our duty to preserve rather than renovate or restore, so many people seem to think restoration means renewal. I have seen too many old houses ''restored'' and basically destroyed as a result. Its usually down to a mixture of building regs and conservation, I always lean towards conservation and will always side with the conservation officer. What BC dont know wont hurt them.
There is nothing wrong with buying a listed building so long as you are aware of what listing means and why buildings are listed in the first place, too many people buy them then think they can do what they want with them.
Our cottage is undergoing a lot of work but I am doing it myself and although not listed I am treating it as so. Even the daub panels, if bad are being repaired properly with the least amount of disturbance possible. Sometimes it is necessary to remove the daub to repair the frame but this gets re-mixed and reapplied when the repairs are complete. Everything gets documented and photographed before and after repair.
I really dont like old houses that state they are old but when you look in through the front door you are met with comparatively modern materials, paints and construction techniques. Lavenham is a good example of a medieval village that has had a Victorian make over, very few houses and buildings in Lavenham can boast originality dating before the 1800's.
What is really grinding my gears at the moment is the use of kitchen and bathroom paint on daub panels and modern dark stain on timbers, because this is a nightmare to remove without doing any damage and sometimes its best to leave it be.
-
Well if you are ever needing any wood slabs let me know...we,ve recently moved into an oldish house...1890, and when it came to doing the kitchen..it was on to ebay...where we picked up a bargain..oak doored kitchen and stoves range for £266 and then up to my local sawmill, for the worktops,...2 x 3.9m x 62cm x 6cm slabs of American Cedar...all cut and delivered..for under £250...then just last week, we were in a cafe/gallery and they had a wood slab small coffee table for sale ..@£299...it measured 70cm x 75cm sitting on two slab legs,..it was made of spalted beech...i,m busy making 2 x small side tables from Sycamore 1 x 65cm x 40cm x 6cm on slab legs, and the other is 75cm x 83cm x 6cm again on slab legs...total cost for the wood.£50....this sawmill has tones of wood slabs, average price for 1.5m x 60cm x 5cm £40 with no vat....
-
Thats a good price, my kitchen we have decided will be of brick supports with Oak shelves and ledge and brace doors, or maybee just ledge doors depending on how busy I am. ;D I was watching a nice slab of Elm on the bay a while back that would have been lovely as a work top but unfortunately it came at the wrong time as we wont be doing the kitchen for a long while yet. Slabs wont be too hard to find, dried and seasoned slabs might be a different story.
-
Anyhow, back to my chest. ;D
The drawer runners are pretty screwed, normally I would live with them however the drawer stops are cutting into the drawer bottoms.
Replacing the runners looks like a horrendous job. Are there any tricks to do this without too much disturbance?
I was thinking of cutting them in half in situ where the groove for the dust panel has been cut then replacing the top half with soft pine.
Any thoughts?
Here are some more pics.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2362.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2363.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2361.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2365.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2366.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2367.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2364.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2360.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2358.jpg)
-
"Concrete foundations? Thats sacrilege!"
Not sacrilege if your house was built in the 1940s, as mine was. Solid as a rock, with lots of oak woodwork inside... ;D
-
Indeed, although I would still not rule out the use of lime in 1940, however cement does seem more likely. The only problem with 'solid as a rock' is 'easily cracked' when it does move, especially render on an old shrinking timber frame. Why people put cement render around timber framed buildings is beyond me.
-
I see some space below the runner !! Have you checked it for square ?? Could be the crack in the top is the cause of the drawers not hitting the runners properly !! If so they will wear unevenly and be difficult !!
-
Indeed, although I would still not rule out the use of lime in 1940, however cement does seem more likely. The only problem with 'solid as a rock' is 'easily cracked' when it does move, especially render on an old shrinking timber frame. Why people put cement render around timber framed buildings is beyond me.
Cement & concrete....if it was good enough for the Romans...its good enough for me....and as for conservationists... Ha, let them put their money where their mouth is and you would,nt hear a peep out of them.... ;D
-
They could put their money where my wallet is if they like. ;D
The runners could have moved, but a good 90 percent in places above the dust panel has gone.
Here are some better photos.
This one shows the wear on the runner right down to the dust panel and the wear on the drawer stop as it rubs on the bottom of the drawer, preventing this will mean preventing any further damage to the drawer bottom.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2368.jpg)
Its difficult to see the wear as the batteries on my camera have had it and it is taking pants photos.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2369.jpg)
The runner has worn so thin in places it is like paper.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2370.jpg)
You can see here how the side of the drawer has polished (with the help of some wax I suspect) the side of the runner as it wore down through it, you can see the level the drawer should be at above the polished part.
Just looked again , in the photo it doesnt look polished at all, best get some batteries in that camera.
-
They could put their money where my wallet is if they like. ;D
The runners could have moved, but a good 90 percent in places above the dust panel has gone.
Here are some better photos.
This one shows the wear on the runner right down to the dust panel and the wear on the drawer stop as it rubs on the bottom of the drawer, preventing this will mean preventing any further damage to the drawer bottom.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2368.jpg)Batteries failing.....Ha....i ts a poor man that blames his tools.... ;D
Its difficult to see the wear as the batteries on my camera have had it and it is taking pants photos.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2369.jpg)
The runner has worn so thin in places it is like paper.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2370.jpg)
You can see here how the side of the drawer has polished (with the help of some wax I suspect) the side of the runner as it wore down through it, you can see the level the drawer should be at above the polished part.
Just looked again , in the photo it doesnt look polished at all, best get some batteries in that camera.
-
From what i,ve heard Suffolk.is a wealthy county,.and its ..folk have got deep pockets and short arms... ;D.
-
Its a handsome looking chest from the front...those sides look to be solid mahogany...the back is pine,as for getting the drawers to run free...if their anything like the drawers in our chest...part of the problem is over loading and the other is knowing how to pull..i know it sounds stupid but you,d be amazed at how many times my wife has a problem opening the drawers...."there stuck again"comes the cry...then i go up and pull and they run free....
-
Suffolk may be wealthy, but I'm not from suffolk. ;D Irish , so I have both empty pockets and short arms. ;D
The drawers do run freely although my other half wont ever close them properly. My main concern is stopping them from wearing any further and causing more damage.
The runner seems to be all one piece, a groove cut out to accommodate the dust panel and it notches on two corners to fit inside the outer uprights in the cabinet frame, in other words I wont be trying to replace the runners.
Is it plausible to chisel the runner flat where the drawer has worn it then glue in some new wood? It wouldnt take much, probably 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch.
-
You would have better luck adding a shim along the low place and sanding down to the original !! Or could add it along the entire runner if its really worn !! A thin piece of pine can be sanded easily where needed !! Glue and small brads to attach it !! Just takes a lot of putting the drawers in and out till you see if they move as they should and the front is in line with the case !! Then a few coats of parafin along the runner and drawer bottom to keep them moving smoothly !!
-
Thanks Mart, might have a crack at one tomorrow.
-
Just to add, on further inspection the top is not veneered, it is around 1/4 inch thick. I can see through parts of broken veneer on the skirt and it is clearly visible on the back. The skirt all around it (front and sides) is veneered. So I am assuming it is mahogany allso? On one of the drawer runners I was able to remove a loose nail, it was a cut nail with a blacksmiths made squarish head, is that an indication to date? or were they fairly common even when pressed nails were being used?
-
Just be prepared for a lot of hand sanding to get it right !! But dont glue it down till you get a pretty good fit with the drawer,, just put a small brad front and back till you are sure !! Can remove brads if needed with a screwdriver as a wedge !!
-
Sounds good, the drawer rails are worn on a few and might need attention, or should I tailor the runners to take up the difference? It would be much easier if I could.
-
Yes, you will have to tailor them to get them right !! One end may be quite a bit thicker so get it as close as you can when cutting the shim then hand sand the rest !! That should get it close to what it was originally !! If the drawer front fits square with the case and it slides in and out smoothly,, thats a good fit !!
-
Is it plausible to chisel the runner flat where the drawer has worn it then glue in some new wood? It wouldnt take much, probably 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch.
Robgil, now that is probably the way Bigwull would do it but I’m advising you not to because that would be a back-breaking long-time-doing task.
I suggest that you:
Step #1 – Make a “rail” (drawer runner) marking gauge (see picture below) out of a ¾” thick board with the length and height as shown on the photo. Now the purpose of the “rail” gauge is for “marking” the “cut” line for the height and horizontal angle of the new piece of wood to be glued or nailed on top of the worn-down part of the rail/runner.
Step #2 – cut 2 boards that are ¾” thick, …. the same length as the “rail” gauge ….. and a width that is less than the height of the drawer opening …… so that its edge can set lengthwise on top of rail.
Step #3 – place a #2 board on top of a rail, ….. with the “rail” gauge on the “dust” board and tight against the rail and the #2 board …… and then mark a “cut” line on the #2 board.
Step #4 – “mark it” on its bottom edge for the rail that it was cut for …. and then use a bandsaw to cut the “new” rail piece off the #2 board.
Step #4 – repeat the process for the other rail for the same drawer. Then lay the 2 pieces on their matching rails and “check” them for “fit”, first with a straight-edge or a framing square ….. and then the drawer itself. If they “fit” ….. a couple small nails will hold them in place. (and be sure to put paste wax on them when done)
-
Is it plausible to chisel the runner flat where the drawer has worn it then glue in some new wood? It wouldnt take much, probably 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch.
Robgil, now that is probably the way Bigwull would do it but I’m advising you not to because that would be a back-breaking long-time-doing task.
I suggest that you:
Step #1 – Make a “rail” (drawer runner) marking gauge (see picture below) out of a ¾” thick board with the length and height as shown on the photo. Now the purpose of the “rail” gauge is for “marking” the “cut” line for the height and horizontal angle of the new piece of wood to be glued or nailed on top of the worn-down part of the rail/runner.
Step #2 – cut 2 boards that are ¾” thick, …. the same length as the “rail” gauge ….. and a width that is less than the height of the drawer opening …… so that its edge can set lengthwise on top of rail.
Step #3 – place a #2 board on top of a rail, ….. with the “rail” gauge on the “dust” board and tight against the rail and the #2 board …… and then mark a “cut” line on the #2 board.
Step #4 – “mark it” on its bottom edge for the rail that it was cut for …. and then use a bandsaw to cut the “new” rail piece off the #2 board.
Step #4 – repeat the process for the other rail for the same drawer. Then lay the 2 pieces on their matching rails and “check” them for “fit”, first with a straight-edge or a framing square ….. and then the drawer itself. If they “fit” ….. a couple small nails will hold them in place. (and be sure to put paste wax on them when done)
Here,You,..just you leave me out of this....I never said how to do the rails...you obviously did,nt read my posts....and here you are hitting this Poor Irishman...who has deep empty pooches wi...then use a Bandsaw...Did you never stop to think...."does he have a bandsaw"....from what I see here the simplest solution would be for you to do the job by proxy....he can give you all the fine measurements...in metric then you can convert them to inches so that you don,t get confused with our metric system.....ya know mm, cm m.
then you can make all the bits and then post them to him...bearing in mind you will have to convert all your measurement details into metric so that he can understand......"now if all this sounds like Gobbledygook....wel l, think what you,re doing to us... ;D ;D
-
You know,, I am a simple person,, but if they don`t have woodworking tools, I would just take the measurements to the home improvement center and see if they have shims by the bundle in the length you need or longer !! I know they have them here and many stores will cut to your specifications if you buy the material there with just a small fee !! In a pinch, a wooden yardstick would likely work !!
-
I'm a lucky boy, The runners under the drawer are removable so , I can remove and replace with new however they are mahogany so I will have to wait until I get some.
I'm afraid I dont have a band saw but its never stopped me before. ;D
-
Then don`t bother with shims, just replace the runner and be done with it !! If you cant get mahogany, use oak !!
-
I think the runners in the cabinet were sacrificial as they seem to be soft wood, the runners on the bottom of the drawer (the easy ones to replace) were hard wood, seems a bit backwards to me.
You can just make the mahogany runner out here attached to the drawer side below the bottom panel.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/chest/DSCF2349.jpg)
The ones inside the cabinet are still screwed and need doing. Got tied up today so nothing done. Well, its snowing outside and the fire was lit, and it's Sunday, so roasted toes today.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/robertgilmore/DSCF2146.jpg)
I will get around to doing my runners, when the fire goes out and the snow stops. ;D
-
And you,re not tied to using oak..almost any hardwood will do...beech,ash,sycamore...or even a bit of Ramin....yeah toasty tootsies and a pint or two of Caffreys....much better than that English Pish...that masquerades as beer...yeah the English might be good at making Yorkshire puds but they sure as hell can,t make a decent beer.... ;D
-
Yeah !! Pine most likely if soft wood !! Just enjoy the fire today !!
-
Pine!!!!...don,t be silly woman....he wants to mend it...not rookie it..... ;D
-
I could use Oak, I have plenty of it here. I would rather replace with like for like to preserve originality , why the made the sacrificial runner the one that is part of the cabinets internals is beyond me, or perhaps it is mahogany also, I need to check to be sure.
-
And you,re not tied to using oak..almost any hardwood will do...beech,ash,sycamore...or even a bit of Ramin....yeah toasty tootsies and a pint or two of Caffreys....much better than that English Pish...that masquerades as beer...yeah the English might be good at making Yorkshire puds but they sure as hell can,t make a decent beer.... ;D
More of a Guinness man myself, or a wee shot of Jamesons (or a wee jot of the white whiskey for special occasions, like after a Guinness).
-
I'm a lucky boy, The runners under the drawer are removable so , I can remove and replace with new however they are mahogany so I will have to wait until I get some.
I'm afraid I dont have a band saw but its never stopped me before. ;D
Replacing the drawer "runners" won't solve your problem.
That would be akin to adding a piece on the two (2) back chair legs to make all 4 the same length ... in an attempt to make it set level on an uneven or slanting floor.
A bandsaw is handy and the easiest to use for cutting small pieces, but having one is not a prerequisite. You can easily cut along that "scribe" line with a bandsaw.
A radial arm or table saw will work fine also ..... but cutting the "taper" defined by the scribe line is tricky. HA, if you have a newer radial arm with the "lazer" for adjusting the "swing" angle then no problem.
But those shims won't be any more than 5" or 8" long so bout any hand saw will work, .... even a hacksaw.
-
Is it plausible to chisel the runner flat where the drawer has worn it then glue in some new wood? It wouldnt take much, probably 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch.
"....from what I see here the simplest solution would be for you to do the job by proxy....he can give you all the fine measurements...in metric then you can convert them to inches so that you don,t get confused with our metric system.....ya know mm, cm m.
then you can make all the bits and then post them to him...bearing in mind you will have to convert all your measurement details into metric so that he can understand......"now if all this sounds like Gobbledygook....wel l, think what you,re doing to us... ;D ;D
Now Wullie, note above, he gave dimensions in inches, ..... I replied inkind.
And metric is no problem, justa little rusty maybe. ... I was Science degreed ya know.
-
Is it plausible to chisel the runner flat where the drawer has worn it then glue in some new wood? It wouldnt take much, probably 1/4 inch x 1/2 inch.
"....from what I see here the simplest solution would be for you to do the job by proxy....he can give you all the fine measurements...in metric then you can convert them to inches so that you don,t get confused with our metric system.....ya know mm, cm m.
then you can make all the bits and then post them to him...bearing in mind you will have to convert all your measurement details into metric so that he can understand......"now if all this sounds like Gobbledygook....wel l, think what you,re doing to us... ;D ;D
Now Wullie, note above, he gave dimensions in inches, ..... I replied inkind.
And metric is no problem, justa little rusty maybe. ... I was Science degreed ya know.
Well, seeing as how you,re Science degreed....you,should know that there ain,t no Z in Laser.. ;D.
-
(http://www.amazing-animations.com/animations/laughter20.gif)
You two at it again....laZer is in Wikipedia! LOLOL
FYI Robgil, I had a treasured chest that the top split. Didn't want to redo finish either. So I simply cut a new piece of wood to perfectly fit on top of the top and finished it off. Looks great. Unfortunately it is in storage for now and can't get in to get a pic.
-
(http://www.amazing-animations.com/animations/laughter20.gif)
You two at it again....laZer is in Wikipedia! LOLOL
FYI Robgil, I had a treasured chest that the top split. Didn't want to redo finish either. So I simply cut a new piece of wood to perfectly fit on top of the top and finished it off. Looks great. Unfortunately it is in storage for now and can't get in to get a pic.
There might be a Z in Lazer.from Wiki...but there ain,t no Z in the Laser on a Radial arm saw....
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Lazer may refer to:
Laser, a device which generates a beam of light
Lazer, Hautes-Alpes, France
Panther Lazer, a car
Lazer 103, a Wisconsin radio station
Lazer 99.3, a Massachusetts radio station
you were saying.... ::)
-
Le Gasp
(http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32700000/LE-GASP-penguins-of-madagascar-32750623-588-473.jpg)
-
Well, seeing as how you,re Science degreed....you,should know that there ain,t no Z in Laser.. ;D.
And der tain't no ain't in laser either.
-
He picked up our Texas slang, Cogar !! Bigwull is turning Texan !!! ;)
-
He picked up our Texas slang, Cogar !! Bigwull is turning Texan !!! ;)
you should be so lucky...more like you learning Scots... ;D
-
Ha !!! Getting pretty good at deciphering yours !!
-
Mart, I love that he used a comma in ain,t ! That ain't right Wullie!!!
(Mart, maybe his ole' computer doesn't have an apostrophe!) :)
-
All I'd care to add might be .... since the aforementioned 'rails' are not so much of a pain to remove ... a suggestion to take them out of your cabinet , check them with a magnet for metal , lay it on a tablesaw & simply cut off & square-up the piece to receive a fresh piece (as in a squared-up 'shim') glued & clamped , after proper hair-pulling & triple-checking for proper operation & fit of the drawer(s) .
If you're lacking a tablesaw , substitue a wood chisel !
You'll save some of the original & not have a full-replacement issue ... it does seem to me , after viewing so many of the posted pics (thanks for that , robgil) , that this piece has had a series of repairs in the past !
-
One more suggestion from this ole cabinetmaker n’ fixer-upper is that you don’t worry about the drawer “slides” until after you get the rails inside the cabinet repaired because doing that will probably solve all your problems.
Now I say that because most all of the “wear” on the drawer “slides” will be on the back end and very little to none on the front end, therefore, even though the “wear” on the back end will cause the back end of the drawer to “drop” down some, but due to the length of the drawer, it really shouldn’t be noticeable when looking at the front of the cabinet.
Now you can check those drawer “slides” ahead of time to see how much “fixin” they need ….. by placing the drawers on a flat tabletop so that they are resting on the “slides”, …. then placing a “square” on the table and against the drawer front …… and the “gap” between the square and the top of the drawer front not only tells you how much the back end of the “slide” has been worn down ….. but how much the top of the drawer is going to be “off vertical” or leaning back in from the top edge of the drawer opening.
Now I don’t mean to offend anyone by offering a different opinion, but if I have, I apologize. And so that you will know where I am “coming from” I will post pictures, … in a “new” post, …. of a couple cabinets that I made for the wifey. But first I’ll have to “upload” the pictures to Photobucket.
Cheers
-
Mart, I love that he used a comma in ain,t ! That ain't right Wullie!!!
(Mart, maybe his ole' computer doesn't have an apostrophe!) :)
If it does have an apostrophe..tab,.this old brain can,t find it....so a comma is the next best thing...cause after all, its only an upside down apostrophe..... ;D
-
I assumed that the inside was what he was talking about since they are the ones worn out !! But I guess not !!