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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: capn on May 02, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
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Hey guys.
I just bought this on a whim. I think I overpaid but it just fascinated me. It's solid cast iron and super heavy.
Talked to about 5 local dealers, etc and noone could find what it is. The general consensus is possible the center for an old wagon wheel or fortified coach weel (with the spokes coming out of the grooves) or possibly an old gear. I am guessing maybe a piece from an early railroad wheel.
I cannot find any information on the company after hours of searching or any information on what the piece itself could be used for.
The middle is hollow all the way through and the grooves go all the way around. Stamped "A.R.M. Co. 1886" on one side.
Measures 11"x9" weighs a little less than 40 pounds
Thanks for your help!
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo3_zps4467355c.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo3_zps4467355c.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo2_zpsb4453a23.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo2_zpsb4453a23.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo1_zps5cf6d000.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo1_zps5cf6d000.jpg.html)
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And here was me thinking...I was impulsive....but this takes the biscuit...it ll make a nice door stop...if nothing else... ;D.
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And here was me thinking...I was impulsive....but this takes the biscuit...it ll make a nice door stop...if nothing else... ;D.
It's super industrial and stamped with a huge date...I dunno...thought it was cool :)
But I won't tell you what I paid if you think it was impulsive in general haha
Oh well
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Where are you ? Not ' down under ' by any chance ?
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A.R.M. Co. stands for American Rolling Mill Co !! Ohio, I think !! In business shortly before the turn of the century they developed a steel in 1909 that was 99.97% pure and after that was the standard for purity to be marked Armco steel !! Your item is not cast iron !! Cast iron is brittle and could not be used for railroads,, wrought iron or steel could have been though !! Your item could have also come from many types of industrial machinery !! That is not the date it was made but likely the date of incorporation for the company !!
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A.R.M. Co. stands for American Rolling Mill Co !! Ohio, I think !! In business shortly before the turn of the century they developed a steel in 1909 that was 99.97% pure and after that was the standard for purity to be marked Armco steel !! Your item is not cast iron !! Cast iron is brittle and could not be used for railroads,, wrought iron or steel could have been though !! Your item could have also come from many types of industrial machinery !! That is not the date it was made but likely the date of incorporation for the company !!
The date on the piece is 1886. American Rolling Mill company was created in 1899. So whether the date on the piece is the date it was made or the incorporation date, it is 15 years earlier than American Rolling Mill co. (that was my first guess too)
Another ARM co that could be it is the American Road Machine Company. Still looking into it though
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Where are you ? Not ' down under ' by any chance ?
Nope. NY ;)
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Would not be the date made !! They could not have marked each piece manufactured with the date made,, would have been too costly !! Not very many with that name !! Will look more tomorrow !!
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It has to be a HD wheel hub.
Who knows, maybe it was on a wagon hauling ore out of a Colorado mine in the 1880's?
(If this outfit was able to raise $5M selling stock, they probably could afford to have their hubs marked. :D)
http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861 (http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861)
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It has to be a HD wheel hub.
Who knows, maybe it was on a wagon hauling ore out of a Colorado mine in the 1880's?
(If this outfit was able to raise $5M selling stock, they probably could afford to have their hubs marked. :D)
http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861 (http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861)
Another very possible direction! Thanks for that
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Would not be the date made !! They could not have marked each piece manufactured with the date made,, would have been too costly !! Not very many with that name !! Will look more tomorrow !!
Definitely some misunderstanding here haha. Sorry.
The company you are talking about didn't become a company until 1899.
I understand the date on this piece might not be the date it was made, but if anything it would be the date the company was founded...and 1886 is 13 years before that company was even founded. That's all I was saying
And unfortunately there were quite a few companies with the initials ARM (including farming equipment companies, steel companies, and mining companies which all could have used something similar) so it makes things pretty tricky.
Fun to research though when it's a hard one!
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It has to be a HD wheel hub.
Who knows, maybe it was on a wagon hauling ore out of a Colorado mine in the 1880's?
(If this outfit was able to raise $5M selling stock, they probably could afford to have their hubs marked. :D)
http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861 (http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861)
PS. HD as in harley davidson? ???
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It has to be a HD wheel hub.
Who knows, maybe it was on a wagon hauling ore out of a Colorado mine in the 1880's?
(If this outfit was able to raise $5M selling stock, they probably could afford to have their hubs marked. :D)
http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861 (http://cigarboxlabels.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=13861)
PS. HD as in harley davidson? ???
It might as well be...they,re just a smaller version of a MF.... ;D
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This is as close as I can find...looks like it could be it, if not then this one is yours half brother... ;D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-rare-Antique-Wagon-Cannon-wagon-Wheel-Hub-cast-iron-steampunk-rustic-/350702110532?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item51a7798744
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It looks like cast iron to me ..... but I don't think it is a hub for a "spoked" wagon wheel because those "hub" extensions would serve no purpose.
Now it might be a "hub" for a grist mill ..... or an idler "hub" for an old "belt driven" power supply for a factory or work shop. To wit:
(http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833017ee8935903970d-500wi)
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It looks like cast iron to me ..... but I don't think it is a hub for a "spoked" wagon wheel because those "hub" extensions would serve no purpose.
Now it might be a "hub" for a grist mill ..... or an idler "hub" for an old "belt driven" power supply for a factory or work shop. To wit:
(http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833017ee8935903970d-500wi)
to wit to woo....then that link to the ebay listing i posted might be from a grist mill?....ba humbug...
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to wit to woo....then that link to the ebay listing i posted might be from a grist mill?....ba humbug...
GIMME A BREAK, .... Bigwull, ...... even the seller of that E-Bay listing doesn't know what the hell he/she is selling, to wit:
Antique Wagon Cannon / wagon Wheel Hub
Tis no wonder the British lost to the colonists, ..... wasting all that good cast iron on wagon/cannon wheel hubs that serves no purpose whatsoever in supporting the weight of the wagon/cannon.
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to wit to woo....then that link to the ebay listing i posted might be from a grist mill?....ba humbug...
GIMME A BREAK, .... Bigwull, ...... even the seller of that E-Bay listing doesn't know what the hell he/she is selling, to wit:
Antique Wagon Cannon / wagon Wheel Hub
Tis no wonder the British lost to the colonists, ..... wasting all that good cast iron on wagon/cannon wheel hubs that serves no purpose whatsoever in supporting the weight of the wagon/cannon.
Too Woo...No Grist mill Hub mentioned.... ::)
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It looks like cast iron to me ..... but I don't think it is a hub for a "spoked" wagon wheel because those "hub" extensions would serve no purpose.
Now it might be a "hub" for a grist mill ..... or an idler "hub" for an old "belt driven" power supply for a factory or work shop. To wit:
(http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833017ee8935903970d-500wi)
I've look at quite a few pictures of pieces like this, but the "Spokes" on wheels for machinery like this are iron and made into the actual piece.
The thing that is confusing is that the piece I have has those slots...which would only really make sense for wood because why would you slide metal spokes into a metal hub? I could be completely wrong though
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Guess I was thinking towards the direction of a water wheel configuration...
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Could have been the central hub into which the alternate teeth fit into !! Like fingers into the slots !! I didn`t see a way to attach and keep fast a wooden spoke !! Wood would shrink and swell alternately !! Would not have been a great idea to me !!
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Can,t be for Cogar,s grist mill,that,s for sure...those pulley wheels only have 6 spokes, this hub has at least 8..
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This thing is such a mystery!
Haha
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When you consider some of the huge mills that were operating,, its probably more common than we know !!
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no mystery...we make it a mystery with all our conjecture...if it was a mill wheel hub, it would have had a bearing...as these wheels have to run relatively true,...whereas an early wagon wheel/cannon wheel, is less likely to have had one...and i don,t see any recess on that hub where a bearing would sit....therefore,i say its a hub from a wagon/limber
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no mystery...we make it it a mystery with all our conjecture...if it was a mill wheel hub, it would have had a bearing...as these wheels have to run relatively true,...whereas an early wagon wheel/cannon wheel, is less likely to have had one...and i don,t see any recess on that hub where a bearing would sit....therefore,i say its a hub from a wagon/limber
I agree with all of that and I am still 75% sure it is wagon hub of some sort.
Just wish I could find out who the manufacturer was to see what kind of wagon it was
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...if it was a mill wheel hub, it would have had a bearing...
The 2nd photo shows it having a bearing race ..... at least on 1 end of the shaft hole.
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...if it was a mill wheel hub, it would have had a bearing...
The 2nd photo shows it having a bearing race ..... at least on 1 end of the shaft hole.
A but your mill wheels have only got 6 spookes....this ones got at least 8 ..maybe 10
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That recess is,nt deep enough for a ball race ,my guess is thats where the flange would sit when the axle shaft protruded through and a cotter pin..or vine eye..would be stuck throught hloe to hold it onto the axle, and if you count the sockets on pic 2 you,ll count 5 therefore i,m sure this will have 10 spookes
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this one is similar..same basic design,except that yours has the sockets recessed,,and these are exposed..yours has 10 sockets same as this,..if this one of yours is anything other than a wheel hub ...then Ghopper had better get his shorts off... ;D
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I'm waaaaaaiiiiiiiiiitt ttttttttttiiiiiiiin nnnnnnggggggggggg.. .......... ;D ;D ;D
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It has 12 slots/spokes ;)
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It has 12 slots/spokes ;)
even better...that puts paid to cogars...grist mill pulley wheel.... ;D..now look at these...i,m determined not to be eating ghopper,s kacks.. ;D
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your American Road Machine Co
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1892-ad-n-champion-crusher-rocks-american-road-machine-kennett-/350779127920?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ac10b870
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It has 12 slots/spokes ;)
even better...that puts paid to cogars...grist mill pulley wheel.... ;D..now look at these...i,m determined not to be eating ghopper,s kacks.. ;D
Gettin warm!
;)
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It has 12 slots/spokes ;)
even better...that puts paid to cogars...grist mill pulley wheel.... ;D..now look at these...i,m determined not to be eating ghopper,s kacks.. ;D
Gettin warm!
;)
What do you mean getting Warm....any hotter and the bloody thing,ll be melting... ;D
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It has 12 slots/spokes ;)
even better...that puts paid to cogars...grist mill pulley wheel.... ;D..now look at these...i,m determined not to be eating ghopper,s kacks.. ;D
Gettin warm!
;)
What do you mean getting Warm....any hotter and the bloody thing,ll be melting... ;D
haha. :D
We're hot when I figure out the company to find out what kind of wagon...firearms wagon? agriculture? travel? etc ;)
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I'll vote for the beer wagon , on this item ...
A 12-spoked repro of an original one , in the image below .
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...if it was a mill wheel hub, it would have had a bearing...
The 2nd photo shows it having a bearing race ..... at least on 1 end of the shaft hole.
A but your mill wheels have only got 6 spookes....this ones got at least 8 ..maybe 10
A Ford Model A had 12, and so did many wagon wheels .......
And this mill wheel has .......
(http://ak8.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/498889/preview/stock-footage-old-antique-water-wheel-turning-against-a-wood-building-steel-wheel-and-spokes-close-turning-from.jpg)
And this this cannon carriage wheel has .....
(http://amishshop.com/hazel-doc/imageamish2009/cannon511.jpg)
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even better...that puts paid to cogars...grist mill pulley wheel.... ..now look at these...i,m determined not to be eating ghopper,s kacks..
Now Wuffie, there were grist mill water wheels, and grist mill grinding wheels, ...... and all kinds of grist mill wheels and shafts in between those two.
Now we all know it is a wheel hub but the question is, for what purpose was it to be used for that prompted the foundry to make the sand mold and cast it in iron.
That is a big hunk of cast iron and thus apparently made for a big, heavy duty, piece of equipment.
Now the date on that hub was the era when fortunes were being made and there were literally thousands of these "thingys" being built for gas and oil wells and parts were needed to build them with, .... to wit:
(http://www.elsmerecanyon.com/picocanyon/picocamp2/pic2-6.jpg)
And I'm not stating a fact that the pictured hub was built for the drilling industry, but it might have been.
cheers
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you,ve been too wit.ing...too many times...time for you too woo one of these... ;D...and we both know that we,re never going to agree on what it is,nt
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What part of the country are you in?
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What part of the country are you in?
I'm in the Northeast (ny)
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What part of the country are you in?
I'm in the Northeast (ny)
Thats Aberdeen where i come from... ;D
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Where are you ? Not ' down under ' by any chance ?
Nope. NY ;)
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Someone want to tell me how spokes were secured in those slots ?? Just stick them in and hope they stay ??? My uneducated opinion is that the gear was used in an upright position with the rounded rim fitting into a sleeve with bearings !! Teeth on opposite side and used to propel or pull something forward !! I could see it in a lumber mill or similar !! Don`t ask me what the rest of it is !! Haven`t figured that out yet !! Drilling rig is possible !! Ferry ??
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Someone want to tell me how spokes were secured in those slots ?? Just stick them in and hope they stay ??? My uneducated opinion is that the gear was used in an upright position with the rounded rim fitting into a sleeve with bearings !! Teeth on opposite side and used to propel or pull something forward !! I could see it in a lumber mill or similar !! Don`t ask me what the rest of it is !! Haven`t figured that out yet !! Drilling rig is possible !! Ferry ??
The wheels had rims (wood, iron, etc) that wrapped the whole wheel and kept the spokes in the hub. I'm no expert but that's my guess. This just doesn't seem at all like a gear to me... (again, no expert)
(http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb300/20080816/Wooden-Wheel-857010.jpg)
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capn answered it wonderfully. That is why when the outside broke the whole thing would come apart!
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Here's another example of a metal wheel hub:
(http://www.wdm.ca/TrainingCourses/wheelwright3.jpg)
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We are in Texas KC,, you know that I know wagon wheels !! Hubs on wagon wheels are wood and that plus the compression makes sense !! I was reading a different post on page two or three that didn`t jive with my brain !! But I ate lunch so I will go back and re-read it !! Forgot to quote it !!
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We are in Texas KC,, you know that I know wagon wheels !! Hubs on wagon wheels are wood and that plus the compression makes sense !! I was reading a different post on page two or three that didn`t jive with my brain !! But I ate lunch so I will go back and re-read it !! Forgot to quote it !!
classic case of open mouth before brain was engaged... ;D ;D
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That's okay...we are having the craziest weather here...it rattles our brains, right Mart?
90 degrees one day, 39 degrees the next... up and down...up and down
They saying goes, if you don't like the weather in Texas...just wait a little and it will change!!!
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here in Scotland .like today,we had 11deg c, in the morning...then it was chucking it down in the afternoon..and it was a measly 7deg.c we can have the weather of the 4 seasons...all in one day,..if you,re ever thinking of going on holiday, and hope to top up your suntan....give Scotland a body swerve...
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LOL !! I go through three sets of clothes a day !! Getting tired of doing this much laundry !! Never know if its going to be winter or summer !! Spring is a has-been around here !! Cold has killed a number of my peppers, eggplant, squash, and slowed down my tomatoes !! Potatoes, onions, lettuce and other greens sure like it though !! But I do not !!
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A nice balmy 78 up here in the N.W. today , clear & sunny , with great mountain views !
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We are in Texas KC,, you know that I know wagon wheels !! Hubs on wagon wheels are wood and that plus the compression makes sense !! I was reading a different post on page two or three that didn`t jive with my brain !! But I ate lunch so I will go back and re-read it !! Forgot to quote it !!
classic case of open mouth before brain was engaged... ;D ;D
No !! Classic case of eating too late !! Had company over the weekend and had light breakfast earlier than normal,, then busy in the garden,, should have eaten earlier !! Zaps my insulin schedule every time !!
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Don`t rub it in Fancypants !! :D Normally we are the ones that get to brag about the weather while you guys are freezing !!
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Spring is a has-been around here !!
But, .... but, ...... useta be ......
"A cold wet May will fill the barn full of hay".
;D ;D
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Around here it's "April Showers Bring May Showers."
Worst. Spring. Ever.
People in Missouri constantly quote that tired old saw about "not liking the weather so wait a minute." The fact is that we've been in this colder and wetter than usual pattern since February, with at least one storm a week, and it's boring and depressing.
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Get a grip!!.......Now we,re discussing the bloody weather,...you,know our problem...we,ve got too much time on our hands,....LOL!!
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Get a grip!!.......Now we,re discussing the bloody weather,...you,know our problem...we,ve got too much time on our hands,....LOL!!
Well why not? It's the universal language! ;)
Got to go to work......
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Get a grip!!.......Now we,re discussing the bloody weather,...you,know our problem...we,ve got too much time on our hands,....LOL!!
Well why not? It's the universal language! ;)
Got to go to work......
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo..this is the Universal Language...Money!!
Where ever you go across this globe, the universal language which people understand is money. It is this language which decides the peoples' perception ;D
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.... And there's this ....
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what more can i expect,coming from someone who lives in the "Richest"country in the world,....what with its ultra low petrol costs,...red meat,thats at give away prices,....yeah, Americans..they,ve got it made....whilst the rest of the world suffers..they just get richer by the day,...i don,t think i,ve ever seen or heard a poor American.... all I,ve ever heard was, Y,all I,ve got this an I,ve got that, an my car it just eats gas,but its so damn cheap...i buy it by the tankerful.... ;D
"
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on top of what you just said makes no sense, pull it back to the forum.
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Well this thread is completely off topic...
Still don't know who made this thing and what wheel it belonged to :)
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Hey all ... sorry about any offense !
None intended , what with where the thread had 'gone' ...
I'm with you , capn , no sure ID of your cool little iron hub yet !!!
;D
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Well this thread is completely off topic...
Still don't know who made this thing and what wheel it belonged to :)
happens all the time...don,t worry about it... we always get back eventually...and what do you mean...you don,t know what this thing belonged to.....we know its a hub from a wheel,that had wooden spokes,now this wheel may have been a wagon wheel, or a gun limber,or a cannon,..or a Grist mill,.wheel,.but one thing is for sure it was,nt on one of these...from the Ukraine, ;D..no offense taken,FP.,cos after all variety is the spice of life...and anyway..whats a little humour & banter between friends,..Oops,2 pics for the price of one,
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Counting back..there,s around 48 on topic replies out of 67...not too bad i would say....many people don,t get a fraction of that.....
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Counting back..there,s around 48 on topic replies out of 67...not too bad i would say....many people don,t get a fraction of that.....
;)
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Off topic is what happens when we can`t solve a problem !! I even posted this on Smoke Stack and no help !! They have a forum for farm and industrial stuff !! Still can`t track down ARM Co. !! Looked more this morning !!
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Off topic is what happens when we can`t solve a problem !! I even posted this on Smoke Stack and no help !! They have a forum for farm and industrial stuff !! Still can`t track down ARM Co. !! Looked more this morning !!
Thanks Mart!
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The way i see it,...this might just be the last A.R.M..thingy ma bob..on the planet,...and no amount of searching is going to find, it,...we are 99% sure that it is part of a spoked wheel,...I think we can agree on that,....as for that elusive 1%..well, that,s for the original poster,,to chew on....but from where i,m sitting,its been found,...its a wooden spoked wheel hub ....of unknown origin.but if the original poster can,t accept that......then...wh at was the point of us finding..all those similar looking HUBS.... :-X
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Off topic is what happens when we can`t solve a problem !! I even posted this on Smoke Stack and no help !! They have a forum for farm and industrial stuff !! Still can`t track down ARM Co. !! Looked more this morning !!
Well, Mart, my post earlier,might be it...even the wheel on the contraption has 12 spookes...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1892-ad-n-champion-crusher-rocks-american-road-machine-kennett-/350779127920?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51ac10b870
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The way i see it,...this might just be the last A.R.M..thingy ma bob..on the planet,...and no amount of searching is going to find, it,...we are 99% sure that it is part of a spoked wheel,...I think we can agree on that,....as for that elusive 1%..well, that,s for the original poster,,to chew on....but from where i,m sitting,its been found,...its a wooden spoked wheel hub ....of unknown origin.but if the original poster can,t accept that......then...wh at was the point of us finding..all those similar looking HUBS.... :-X
Wasn't diminishing the help you guys have given. I really appreciate it!
Going into this, in my first post I was almost certain that it was from a wooden spoked wheel, I was just more interested if anyone knew what kind of machine/vehicle this was on (as it could be a plethora of different things).
But I guess this is just one of those mysterious pieces!
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The way i see it,...this might just be the last A.R.M..thingy ma bob..on the planet,...and no amount of searching is going to find, it,...we are 99% sure that it is part of a spoked wheel,...I think we can agree on that,....as for that elusive 1%..well, that,s for the original poster,,to chew on....but from where i,m sitting,its been found,...its a wooden spoked wheel hub ....of unknown origin.but if the original poster can,t accept that......then...wh at was the point of us finding..all those similar looking HUBS.... :-X
Wasn't diminishing the help you guys have given. I really appreciate it!
Going into this, in my first post I was almost certain that it was from a wooden spoked wheel, I was just more interested if anyone knew what kind of machine/vehicle this was on (as it could be a plethora of different things).
But I guess this is just one of those mysterious pieces!
Well in that case i,ll remove yer name from my dartboard... ;D
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The way i see it,...this might just be the last A.R.M..thingy ma bob..on the planet,...and no amount of searching is going to find, it,...we are 99% sure that it is part of a spoked wheel,...I think we can agree on that,....as for that elusive 1%..well, that,s for the original poster,,to chew on....but from where i,m sitting,its been found,...its a wooden spoked wheel hub ....of unknown origin.but if the original poster can,t accept that......then...wh at was the point of us finding..all those similar looking HUBS.... :-X
Wasn't diminishing the help you guys have given. I really appreciate it!
Going into this, in my first post I was almost certain that it was from a wooden spoked wheel, I was just more interested if anyone knew what kind of machine/vehicle this was on (as it could be a plethora of different things).
But I guess this is just one of those mysterious pieces!
Well in that case i,ll remove yer name from my dartboard... ;D
;)
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...Wasn't diminishing the help you guys have given. I really appreciate it!
Going into this, in my first post I was almost certain that it was from a wooden spoked wheel, I was just more interested if anyone knew what kind of machine/vehicle this was on (as it could be a plethora of different things).
But I guess this is just one of those mysterious pieces!
I remembered this topic after running across a page showing a piece of equipment with a similar style wheel hub. (At times, it seems we could utilize that "equipment" here. ;D ;D)
http://www.jacobhaishmfg.org/Great%20Western%20Manure%20Spreader.htm (http://www.jacobhaishmfg.org/Great%20Western%20Manure%20Spreader.htm)
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You have a point !! Occassionally we are all full of it !! ;D
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...Wasn't diminishing the help you guys have given. I really appreciate it!
Going into this, in my first post I was almost certain that it was from a wooden spoked wheel, I was just more interested if anyone knew what kind of machine/vehicle this was on (as it could be a plethora of different things).
But I guess this is just one of those mysterious pieces!
I remembered this topic after running across a page showing a piece of equipment with a similar style wheel hub. (At times, it seems we could utilize that "equipment" here. ;D ;D)
http://www.jacobhaishmfg.org/Great%20Western%20Manure%20Spreader.htm (http://www.jacobhaishmfg.org/Great%20Western%20Manure%20Spreader.htm)
That is very similar!
I ended up passing the piece onto a friend but I will show him that as well
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You have a point !! Occassionally we are all full of it !! ;D
do i detect a need for a roll of Andrex..... ;D
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Charmin over here !!