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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: amiga on May 25, 2013, 08:31:38 PM
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Hi guys,
I have something that I think is a good find to ask your advice and valuation on. I am very excited about this piece and have put it in pride of place in my home. The girls are gorgeous. Hope you have a bronze expert laying around. It is signed a moreau. Ta
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Hi guys,
I have something that I think is a good find to ask your advice and valuation on. I am very excited about this piece and have put it in pride of place in my home. The girls are gorgeous. Hope you have a bronze expert laying around. It is signed a moreau. Ta
I hae a few more pics for you to see. I hope they help. I think these are spanish dancing ladies with folded fans does anyone else have a different idea.... Ta Amiga
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Auguste Moreau, not really the style that I would associate with him, which is usually Art Nouveau ladies. Do you know for a fact that it's bronze, not just cold painted spelter? As this would make a huge difference in value. Use a magnet to check this first. GG
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Looks modern. Might be a reissue but certainly not from his lifetime.
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Ok not feeling quite so excited now. Should magnet stick or not.... it is very heavy I cant lift it but the magnet does not stick..... omg should i cry now
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No, no tears,...at least we know, its not,ferrous metal,..i.e. magnetic....from the pictures i see ,my head tells me Spelter,...as opposed to bronze,...sometimes known as .Poor man,s bronze..on the base where those little mounds are, you could scrape away, a little metal, if it is bronze then it will show, as a dull copper/brass colour, but if as i suspect,that its spelter, then the metal will be silvery coloured...these mounds are where the legs have been attached to the base...furthermore. ..just because you get a negative regarding its origin...does,nt mean...its worthless,..I like it, but, if it cost you an arm & a leg, and you bought it as a bronze...then i can understand your reaction....but if it was a reasonable price....then ..just enjoy it.....its not always about...$$$$
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Looks modern. Might be a reissue but certainly not from his lifetime.
I appreciate your reply but I would love to know how you can tell it is not from his time... does that mean a copy? a fake? I am very new to this sort of art
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Perhaps if you,d read my post..you would begin to understand..first you have to ascertain...is it "bronze"..or is it Spelter...if its the latter...then its not a Moreau..........Spe lter..is as i,ve already said...a poor man,s bronze...see link to Spelter prices...had they all been bronze....then getting a statue for £10...would be out of the question....but having said that...not all Spelter ..is cheap...
Spelter is easily recognizable...its basically cast white metal,,then it is coloured to imitate bronze,
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I did read your post Bull as I always do with excitement but I was referring to the previous post about not being from moreau's age. I cannot do the test on the base because I can not move the dam thing lol. When hubby is at home I will get him to lift it for me .... stay tuned rofl
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"Bull." That's awesome!!
Moreau's name has been extensively used to "legitimize" copies and fakes through the 20th century. The subject matter, i.e. the two girls and the way they're dressed, looks more like a nostalgia piece from the second half of the 20th century rather than anything Moreau would have produced during his lifetime.
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Looks modern. Might be a reissue but certainly not from his lifetime.
I appreciate your reply but I would love to know how you can tell it is not from his time... does that mean a copy? a fake? I am very new to this sort of art
( and also relating to ghopper's post )
Experience. The base, the use of two-tone, the signature itself, the faces are incredibly smooth and " sharp " and the whole aesthetic tells me it's modern.
This does not necessarily mean a fake but what people in the art industry refer to as " after ". An homage, a new representation. However, some people would be blunt and say it's a copy.
there are four or five sculptures who's items turn up far more than others and one reason is they're easily copied without much recrimination. People pay £100 when an original might be £1,000+
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( and also relating to ghopper's post )
Experience. The base, the use of two-tone, the signature itself, the faces are incredibly smooth and " sharp " and the whole aesthetic tells me it's modern.
Yes, exactly.
If this is an "homage" it's a pretty sad one. I'd say someone is just cashing in on the name and that's pretty much the end of it.
However, some people would be blunt and say it's a copy.
I'd be blunt and say it's a ripoff.
there are four or five sculptures who's items turn up far more than others and one reason is they're easily copied without much recrimination. People pay £100 when an original might be £1,000+
Is this one of them? Or did you mean "sculptors?"
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Yeah, sorry ! Multi-tasking typo.
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Did you buy this in the U.S ?? Copyright law on art, unless its changed recently, is the artists life plus 70 years !! If his work is now in the public domain,, anyone can copy it and sell it !! But no matter,, if the price was reasonable and you like it,,you did well !!
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Auguste Moreau was French and died in 1919.
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Would have to go back and read again,, its been a while since I checked on this !! But doesn`t matter where Moreau was,, matters where this thing was made !! Of course any production agreements would also come into play along with other things !!
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Did some checking on this, would like to know the name of the bronze if you have it !! As of a few months ago the Moreau family was still producing these bronzes !! However he did not keep records on all he created so finding a particular one is a task !! He has some that are in Public domain so anyone can copy and sell them !! Not sure which his family retained and renewed !!
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I'd fully agree that this bronze is intended to be 'after' Mr. Moreaus' "Two Sisters" , as in the image of a current re-cast/repro (priced @ $1160.95 -retail) .
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I'd fully agree that this bronze is intended to be 'after' Mr. Moreaus' "Two Sisters" , as in the image of a current re-cast/repro (priced @ $1160.95 -retail) .
"After?" Like WAAAAAYYYYY after! Aside from the fact that the two sculptural groups portray two women/sisters, they might as well be by two very different sculptors. They're not even in the same league.
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Yup , hopper !
(as in afterthought)
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Still not bad if the purchase price was reasonable !! Might find a foundry mark somewhere on it !!
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I did see a couple of postings on bronze forums , from 2010 , that seemed to be about one just like yours , but with no pics , amiga .
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I did see a couple of postings on bronze forums , from 2010 , that seemed to be about one just like yours , but with no pics , amiga .
Can you remember where that forum was so I can look. I am unsure about this item now it came from an estate clearance of a very large estate full of very expensive antiques. I do not know the name of the piece but I paid $200 for it which I believed was a good price lol I scratched under the base and it is a golden colour.
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Later copy or ' after '
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7365409 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7365409)
Poorly defined hands and hair.
Now look at these two of the same subject
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10346735 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10346735)
Nice deep patina, authentic signature in the base, and look at the underneath of the base.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/sothebys/item/575131 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/sothebys/item/575131)
This time it's two tone ( although less contrast than in Amiga's ) but the cupid figure she's holding is made of ivory.
Now look at these two
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3883352 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3883352)
And this " original " which somehow managed to fetch $1,500 in the US.
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9282465 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9282465)
Your figure group isn't worthless, Amiga, just not an original
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Ipcress, thanks for giving the examples....helps others to understand.
amiga, I like your piece...whether repro or not. The question is, do you like it? Did you buy it for resale or for personal likes?
I do agree that it is a modern piece. For a modern piece....interestin g no foundry mark....
I would take it to someone to differentiate spelter or not.
Also....SIDE NOTE.....Love the BULL part! :)
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As far as 2009 the Moreau family along with others were still producing these !! And there were several variations of the Two Sisters piece !! Not all are identical !!
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But I would also hazard to guess that none go as far afield as the example in question....
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amiga , the two questions about (what I called 'one just like yours') were unanswered requests for info on the piece , both from 2010 , on the same bronze forum .... many unanswered requests for info on that forum (unlike here !!!) .
Pretty much dead-ends , info/research-wise .
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thanks everyone Im still looking for more info if you come across any. you are all wonderful to deal with especially Bull :-\ rofl
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Yeah, we get plenty of Bull around here... ;D ;D
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I think i,m becoming dyslexic...everytim e i see ghopper...i think of this.... ;D ;D
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Sounds much more serious than dyslexia. I'd call an ambulance ASAP... ;D ;D