Antique-shop.com

Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 05:01:50 PM

Title: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 05:01:50 PM
I have this desk that has been in my family for quite a while. I know little about it. I do know that my family made frequent trips to Germany and might have picked this up while over there. It is a VERY heavy desk and has a safe in the desk. Its not just your run of the mill safe. It is a heavy built in old safe. I just want to know if anyone has seen anything like this or knows anything about this. I have looked everywhere for this type of desk and found nothing close to it. The name on the inside of the safe is friedrich wiese. Any help would greatly be appreciated.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 05:08:21 PM
Could you please post the pics on here, as not everyone on here will be able to open this link..
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 05:22:26 PM
Friedrich Wiese...was an Austrian safe manufacturer...circ a 1890.s..see link..then scroll down...9 pics to see similar...by all accounts worth a lot of $$$$

http://www.artsafes.de/EN/antike_tresore.html
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 05:37:13 PM
thank you so much for the reply so is the safe made by a separate person then the desk? When you say $$$$ is that 1000.00? or 5,000.00? I would pay an appraiser to come see it but I feel like they might not know enough to tell me. So do you think this desk is from the late 1800's?
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 05:39:57 PM
Whilst it was Wiese who made the safe, I doubt if it was them that made the desk...you might like to check,to see if there are any makers name..hidden somewhere,or on my link there is a contact address, you could send them pics and info, and see what they come up with,..personally i think,you are looking at easily four figures here...or more....when i mean 4 figures its in the upper end ..but i would seriously think about sending  pics to the people in my link
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
okay I did just that hopefully that gets me somewhere. Thanks again!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 05:59:13 PM
okay I did just that hopefully that gets me somewhere. Thanks again!

please let us know..if anything comes of it...
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 29, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
Can you tell us your location and possibly stand back and get a full pic of the desk ??
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 06:18:37 PM
I am in fort worth, Texas about 30 min west of there. Tomorrow I will post a full picture of it as it is at my office. The only reason I didn't take a full picture is due to the computer, printer, etc on top of the desk. I do have this picture of the corner as well as the key that goes to the safe.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: ghopper1924 on May 29, 2013, 06:21:11 PM
Beautiful desk! 1890 looks to be about right.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 29, 2013, 06:42:29 PM
Excellent !!  I am in NE Texas !! Couple of hours east of Dallas !! 
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 07:05:35 PM
okay regarding the inside label of the safe I was searching it and came across this post on this site telling someone what it stands for. This is what he wrote.

The "K.u.K. Hoflieferant" (German/Austrian). Were Purveyors to the Imperial and Royal Court, and were allowed to display the double-headed eagle.  Royal warrants of appointment have been issued for centuries to those who supply goods or services to a royal court or certain royal personages. The warrant enables the supplier to advertise the fact that they supply to the royal family, so lending prestige to the supplier.

The inside label to the safe does say K.u.K. Hoflieferant. I have no clue if this matters or helps anyone but thought I would add in.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 07:10:41 PM
It adds to the value of what you,ve got, its as simple as that...
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 29, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
I would argue that point Wullie !! Don`t really think anyone here is going to care that they could use the Royal Court in their advertisement !!  It only added value to the safe makers future products at that time !!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 07:21:47 PM
So do any of you know someone on here or close to fort worth tx that would know more information on this. I just am curious to know as if I really do have something of great value, or less value because the safe and desk are probably by two different people. Plus I just want to know information like where this exactly came from and such.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 29, 2013, 07:38:20 PM
I think your best bet is to hope that the proprietor of Artsafes gets back in touch,..as for the value being less because of the safe and desk being made by different people..I would say no...from what i,ve seen here,they were made for each other,...i come to this conclusion, because the safe is covered by the outer desk door..which tells me that they when this desk was being made the safe was most likely,built in....at the same time,...if it was,nt then that would mean,whoever owned the desk, would have had to get Wiese to make a safe to the exact measurements of the cupboard it was going into, ..which to me..did,nt happen..these two came together at the birth of this desk..of that i,m sure...if you are desperate to get more info..from an alternative source..then may i suggest you send pics and details to these people in Scotland....they offer a free service...

http://www.greatwesternauctions.com/
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 29, 2013, 07:55:05 PM
Unless its marked on the desk somewhere that is darn near impossible !!  You are looking at this as one piece and its not !! It is two separate pieces,, a desk, and a safe !!  Even though the safe is from Germany/Austria the desk could have as easily been made here !!  When you take additional pics tomorrow,,take one of the back, the drawer dovetails and close ups of hardware, hinges ect !! Perhaps we can narrow down the timeline for the desk !!  Look for a name on drawer backs, bottoms, everywhere !!  Don`t think there is one but,,maybe !!  Is there any of your family you might ask ??  They would be the one to know its history !!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 29, 2013, 08:24:24 PM
I have looked everywhere for anymore info but cant seem to have any luck. I will take more up close in depth pictures tomorrow. This was my grand fathers desk that I know he purchased soley for craftsman of the safe but when he was still living I was around 12 and didn't care to much about a desk unfortunately. I just know they traveled frequently to Germany. I have a king bedset that matches this desk that I would like info on to. ( will post later ) My grandmother did tell me the bedset was handmade. Now that im older I would love to know the history of all of it.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: ghopper1924 on May 30, 2013, 05:34:52 AM
A king betset that matches the desk? That changes things, as there were no king beds in the 1890s. It MUST have been handmade. Can't wait to see photos.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 30, 2013, 07:58:10 AM
Yes,, that would change the timeline entirely !!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 30, 2013, 09:06:21 AM
Not if the bedset was made at a later date, the safe, is 1890 ish..but that does,nt make the desk 1890 ish,i still hold that the desk was made with the safe at hand...and not made then the safe added much later,
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: ghopper1924 on May 30, 2013, 11:15:06 AM
Depends on the nature of the match. The traditional understanding of the word is that the furniture was made at the same time,probably by the same craftsman, and of the same materials in order to match stylistically. The implication being, of course, that the king bedset will look like the desk. The problem, as Mart and I noted, is that king sized beds were virtually unknown in the 19th century, when this desk was obviously made.

Perhaps more pictures will clarify things.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 30, 2013, 11:42:47 AM
Need to see other pics !!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 30, 2013, 11:56:11 AM
The Desk.as i,ve said may not have been made in the 1890,s...but whenever it was made...the safe had to be at hand...as i can,t see the safe being made to fit the desk..more like the   other way round...
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: ghopper1924 on May 30, 2013, 12:01:48 PM
The Desk.as i,ve said may not have been made in the 1890,s...but whenever it was made...the safe had to be at hand...as i can,t see the safe being made to fit the desk..more like the   other way round...
[/quote

I don't disagree.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 30, 2013, 12:49:59 PM
Kingset pictures will be in about 3 weeks due to its sitting in storage. But by chance I could have mis looked it and it not be an exact match. Sorry for making yall wait. I will be moving and have my hands on that item in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 30, 2013, 01:03:55 PM
Ah well,....we wait with anticipation...but in the meantime...can you tell us how the safe is secured to the desk,...and some pics of the drawers construction,the hinges of the doors,..is the top leather inlaid...
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: mart on May 30, 2013, 01:04:18 PM
My personal opinion is that the safe was possibly brought from Germany/Austria around that time,, but set was made here much later !!

No problem,, just post pics of desk details now since that is the one in question !!
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 30, 2013, 02:18:17 PM
okay desk details I will post tomorrow when im at the office. It is actually red felt for the top of the desk. The safe is made into the desk like it for no reason looks as if it was made to fit after purchasing the safe or before purchasing the safe.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: Micole1028 on May 30, 2013, 02:20:33 PM
Where the hinges connect. The right side of the hinges closest to safe that piece of wood is connect to the safe as in its like built on to the safe its not a separate piece of wood. If that makes any sense at all.
Title: Re: German Large desk with built in safe
Post by: bigwull on May 30, 2013, 02:34:56 PM
it just backs up what i,ve been saying,this desk was made and the safe was fitted at the time of making...not fitted afterwards...how else would carpenter know how big to make the hole for the safe to sit in,.if there was no safe....furthermore, it won,t just be sitting there, it would serve no purpose, if the safe was,nt fixed in...and as the outer door of the desk is attached to the safe door...then that tells us..they were made for each other..