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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 11:53:14 AM

Title: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 11:53:14 AM
I wonder if anyone can help me with this picture? It's an unframed oil on canvas. There is a label on the back which reads Scobodzinski boulogne s/seine place dauphine.

There is a real charm about this painting that doesn't come across in the photos too well.

I have tried searching for the artist but with no luck so possibly a hobby painter?

I hope someone can point me in the right direction so I can find out more about it.

Thanks for looking  :)
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 11:57:24 AM
Paper label on back
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 11:59:10 AM
Signature
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 12:00:33 PM
Back
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 12:16:42 PM
Need all writing on the label please!!
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 12:53:00 PM
Ok thanks Mart. I know the other name on there is J. Jaures, with an accent above the e. I don't have the picture in front of me at the moment as it is at my Mothers house in France. But I will ask her what the numbers say tomorrow. I thought the picture is of a Boulogne sur Seine scene, Dauphine Place. And that maybe Monsieur Jaures had framed the painting at sometime? Does this sound right to you?


In 1924, Boulogne-sur-Seine was officially renamed Boulogne-Billancourt. That is as much as I know so far.


(After enlarging the photos it looks like 847blo bld but I will have to confirm.)




Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 01:16:56 PM
Usually the framer/gallery will have a nicer label than what I see !!  The one that is on this painting is just to know who the artist was and what scene it is and the place !! My opinion is that this artist had an agreement at some time with a gallery, the gallery took a few of his works to see if they would sell, (common practice with new artists) !!  The gallery would frame them,and if they sold, the gallery added the cost of the frame plus their commission and the artist got the remainder of whatever the agreed price was !!  But  after a time (can be 6 months or a year) and no sale the gallery removed the frame and put it back in stock and artist picked up his paintings !! So each of his consignment works would have had a tag like this to make sure sales people knew who,what, where it was ect !!  Pretty much standard practice today !!
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
Thanks Mart that is very interesting. Will be good to know if they had the same modus operandi in Paris approx 100 years ago. Certainly sounds like it! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, you do a great job on here.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 01:32:33 PM
Not really relevant but I found the place on google street view if anyone is interested in the difference.

http://maps.gstatic.com/m/streetview/?panoid=knNaYU0Gg5CiDQRFB-0mfQ&cbp=0,181.45021629082342,,0,0

Hope that works.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 02:10:33 PM
Why are you saying 100 years ago ??
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 02:18:22 PM
I say approx because the place on the label hasn't existed since 1924. So we know the picture is over 89 years old. Yes?
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 02:37:23 PM
You mean the street scene on the canvas ??
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 02:49:24 PM
The name of the place the street is in, is Boulogne sur Siene, according to the label on the back of the picture.


This was changed to Boulogne Billancourt in 1924.


It is 8.5km from the centre of Paris.


The Google maps link is the same street (Place Dauphine) today.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: greenacres on June 18, 2013, 02:59:54 PM
The clothing in the painting seems a little later. The women is wearing a short dress and coat, and the little boys clothing is not from the time period. That's from what I can see. It could be my eyes are bad.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 03:07:24 PM
Later than 1920? I did an image search for Paris 1920 and looked about right to me. I know I said approx 100 years, was probably being a little generous. So will rephrase it to approx 93 years ago.  ;D
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Ipcress on June 18, 2013, 03:20:23 PM
Ok thanks Mart. I know the other name on there is J. Jaures, with an accent above the e. I don't have the picture in front of me at the moment as it is at my Mothers house in France. But I will ask her what the numbers say tomorrow. I thought the picture is of a Boulogne sur Seine scene, Dauphine Place. And that maybe Monsieur Jaures had framed the painting at sometime? Does this sound right to you?


In 1924, Boulogne-sur-Seine was officially renamed Boulogne-Billancourt. That is as much as I know so far.


(After enlarging the photos it looks like 847blo bld but I will have to confirm.)






Melodie, the label is the artists label. His name, his address ( Boulevard Jean Jaures ) and the title of the painting " Place Dauphines " ( view of the same shops from further along the street, similar to your link http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/19/23/83/place-dauphine.jpg )



Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: KC on June 18, 2013, 03:24:43 PM
Just a bit of information....many people paint pictures of places that they have never seen/visited but have seen pictures of.  The market today is flooded with French decorative items that are selling right and left reinforcing this.

If you take an art class, they have you paint samples from different periods in time.  Doesn't make their items that old.

The back of yours doesn't look that old (100 years).

the style is reminiscent of those sold in 40's to 50's.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 03:42:24 PM
Good point KC. I do know where this picture has been and how it has been stored for 40 but before that is anyone's guess.

Thanks Ipcress you are a star  :)
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 03:44:33 PM
So KC do you think the label on the back is a fake? It is definitely 1924 that this town name was changed.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: bigwull on June 18, 2013, 03:49:10 PM
The clothing in the painting seems a little later. The women is wearing a short dress and coat, and the little boys clothing is not from the time period. That's from what I can see. It could be my eyes are bad.
your eyes are ok G,acre....that womans clothing looks more 1950,s....and the little girl looks to be wearing a cloak style coat.....i think this has been painted for the tourist market.....
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: greenacres on June 18, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
Thanks Wullie, I know I need an eye doctors appt.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Ipcress on June 18, 2013, 03:54:07 PM
So KC do you think the label on the back is a fake? It is definitely 1924 that this town name was changed.

The label is not fake. People still refer to it as Boulogne Sur Seine.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 18, 2013, 03:58:37 PM
Thank you. I think I will give up on the artist but I have certainly got plenty of info. Thanks again everyone.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Ipcress on June 18, 2013, 04:22:29 PM
Thank you. I think I will give up on the artist but I have certainly got plenty of info. Thanks again everyone.

Skobodzinski. Different spelling could be due to not knowing the English spelling of the surname.


Seen that happen before.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 06:05:56 PM
At least Ipcress knows the area !!
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: KC on June 18, 2013, 06:10:05 PM
Let's figure out what the label says...
Artist's Name
Location of Subject Painted
Title of Painting

Is that correct?

I don't believe the label is "fake".  Just feel it was a label for the store/artist who was selling it.
The last name on the painting is a common name...and the label looks as if the artist could be G. Skobodzinski?
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: mart on June 18, 2013, 06:18:07 PM
Let's figure out what the label says...
Artist's Name
Location of Subject Painted
Title of Painting

Is that correct?

I don't believe the label is "fake".  Just feel it was a label for the store/artist who was selling it.
The last name on the painting is a common name...and the label looks as if the artist could be G. Skobodzinski?

We had to label all of ours for Gallery shows !! Pretty much same info !!  I think this one is a mid century starving artist piece !!  Maybe 40`s or so !!
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Ipcress on June 18, 2013, 06:32:25 PM
Let's figure out what the label says...
Artist's Name
Location of Subject Painted
Title of Painting

Is that correct?


Artists Name
Artists address

Title of painting.


The location is in the centre of Paris. The artist lived a few miles away in a cheaper district
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: KC on June 18, 2013, 09:49:39 PM
Oooohhhh got it.  Artist's address was  
247 bis Boulevard Jean Jaurès  (It's still there!)
92100 Boulogne-Billancourt, France!

Artsy neighborhood/area!

Still sticking with 40's timeline.....  

Still don't see where 1924 is on the label or frame!  Guess it is in invisible ink?  LOL

 ‎
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 19, 2013, 01:17:44 AM
Invisible ink? how could anyone see that? am i missing something?



Can you see Boulogne sur seine on the label? This town changed its name in 1924!



 Make sense yet? - Ok it has now been established that the town may still have been known locally by its old name at a later date. So it isn't definitive proof that the painting is older. You may well be right with the dates you have given. 40's 50's 60's. I am giving up now as I have gratefully received a lot of useful information from you all.



I may hand the picture to a Parisian friend to get it appraised, will let you know the outcome if I do. Would have been so much easier if mum retired somewhere in uk. At least I can make myself understood here and we have some great auction houses but I'm useless at French and I know little about French art history.

Thanks once again to everyone who participated. Moving on to next item now. Gorgeous piece of R Lalique glass. I don't need help with that just got to work out where is best to sell it.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Ipcress on June 19, 2013, 01:57:03 AM
Would still be nice to see it !
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: Melodie on June 19, 2013, 02:07:55 AM
Ok Ipcress your wish is my command lol. I post it on a new thread.
Title: Re: Help with oil painting please.
Post by: bigwull on June 19, 2013, 04:57:39 AM
Invisible ink? how could anyone see that? am i missing something?



Can you see Boulogne sur seine on the label? This town changed its name in 1924!



 Make sense yet? - Ok it has now been established that the town may still have been known locally by its old name at a later date. So it isn't definitive proof that the painting is older. You may well be right with the dates you have given. 40's 50's 60's. I am giving up now as I have gratefully received a lot of useful information from you all.



I may hand the picture to a Parisian friend to get it appraised, will let you know the outcome if I do. Would have been so much easier if mum retired somewhere in uk. At least I can make myself understood here and we have some great auction houses but I'm useless at French and I know little about French art history.

Thanks once again to everyone who participated. Moving on to next item now. Gorgeous piece of R Lalique glass. I don't need help with that just got to work out where is best to sell it.

are you missing something.....No... its KC....she,was thinking 1924 was in black & white....and not in the cryptic clue......but i think the penny will have dropped by now.... ;D