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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: capn on July 07, 2013, 09:43:04 AM
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Hi guys.
I bought this at an auction yesterday just because I loved the imagery. I know absolutely nothing at all about it.
It was labeled as a rug (and was on the floor with everyone at the auction walking on it) but I'm thinking it could have possibly been a tapestry or even a blanket at some time. It has obviously been used as a rug for a long time though. Both sides are the same (one being very dirty from being the "down" side for a while)
My questions are if this was actually made by a tribe and if so, if it's possible to tell which one? I live in central/upstate NY.
Also, what is the approximate date this was made?
And finally, is there an easy way to tell exactly what this is made of? I think it is wool but I am not 100%
Please check out the photos.
The rug measures 7 feet by 3.5 feet.
PS. Is this worth spending the money to get professionally cleaned?
Thanks guys!
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo1_zps6231b961.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo1_zps6231b961.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo3_zpsf702df76.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo3_zpsf702df76.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo2_zpsd8a1ea59.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo2_zpsd8a1ea59.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo5_zps7ddbdc92.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo5_zps7ddbdc92.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo4_zps76cf849e.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo4_zps76cf849e.jpg.html)
(http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r711/mrelixer/photo3_zps72f9cb1d.jpg) (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/mrelixer/media/photo3_zps72f9cb1d.jpg.html)
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It isn`t native American at least not from the US !! The animal appears to be a lion !! Color not consistant with the American tribes !! I think this is an import from Africa !! It does look like wool so dry cleaning would be necessary, the narrow width makes me think tapestry !! Does not look like an older piece !!
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It isn`t native American at least not from the US !! The animal appears to be a lion !! Color not consistant with the American tribes !! I think this is an import from Africa !!
Huh, didn't even think of that.
The imagery had the same simplicity I have seen in other american indian pieces...and I could have sworn the white/black/red color scheme was used by several tribes but I am very new to all of this.
Still curious about my other questions.
Is this a rug, blanket, tapestry? What do you think it's made of based on the pics?
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It isn`t native American at least not from the US !! The animal appears to be a lion !! Color not consistant with the American tribes !! I think this is an import from Africa !! It does look like wool so dry cleaning would be necessary, the narrow width makes me think tapestry !! Does not look like an older piece !!
About how old?
And I can't just take this to a dry cleaner right? It has to go to an upholstery/rug cleaner I'm assuming
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It isn`t native American at least not from the US !! The animal appears to be a lion !! Color not consistant with the American tribes !! I think this is an import from Africa !!
Huh, didn't even think of that.
The imagery had the same simplicity I have seen in other american indian pieces...and I could have sworn the white/black/red color scheme was used by several tribes but I am very new to all of this.
Still curious about my other questions.
Is this a rug, blanket, tapestry? What do you think it's made of based on the pics?
The colors are fine but its the use of them that is not what you would associate with the American tribes !! Neither is the imagery correct for American !! At least I have never seen a lion in America !! I said above I thought it likely was a tapestry but there are always several uses for one thing !! It does look like wool !!
I see no reason a dry cleaner couldn`t clean it,, but ask him to check for colorfastness !! Colors could run if not !! Wool shrinks with water but they can clean a ladies wool skirt without harm,, why not a small tapestry ??
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I agree with Mart on all counts. Textiles aren't my strong suit when it comes to Native American but I know enough to know this isn't NA.
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If it's African do you have any idea of a tribe or region? I know absolutely nothing about that.
Also, would this have been hand-done?
What kind of value would something like this have?
I didn't pay a lot, just curious
thanks guys!
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Many are done with small home style looms !! Looks inconsistent enough to say that is a possibility !! Items like this are home industry for the people there and are how they make a living !! Some carve, some weave, ect !! No high tech jobs for most tribes so they develop their own little cottage industry with handwork !!
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Many are done with small home style looms !! Looks inconsistent enough to say that is a possibility !! Items like this are home industry for the people there and are how they make a living !! Some carve, some weave, ect !! No high tech jobs for most tribes so they develop their own little cottage industry with handwork !!
Cool.
Anyway to tie this to a particular tribe?
Are these worth much at all?
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there,s over 2000 different tribes in Africa.....where would you like to start.....
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there,s over 2000 different tribes in Africa.....where would you like to start.....
Region?
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I doubt it !! There is really nothing definitive about it !! Most of this type thing was intended for sale so they geared the design to what sells best as a souvenier from the area !! The lion is one thing that is normally associated with Africa !! Pictoral elephant would be another !!
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there,s over 2000 different tribes in Africa.....where would you like to start.....
Region?
how about here...
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Was just asking.
Didn't know if there was a way to tell. With most art you can narrow down regardless of how many tribes there are.
Does anyone know what kind of value this might have?
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PS. I know in general wool shouldn't get wet, but I have heard of people soaking them in the bathtub in cold water (some with just water, some with vinegar, etc).
Would this be possible? If so, what's the best way to dry them because I know that if they get wet the water can stay for a long time.
The local carpet cleaners charge $100 a rug and I really don't want to put that much into it
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A $100 to clean a 7 x 3 wall hanging....over here you could have it done for £10 or $15....my wife works in a laundry...and she washes woollen items all the time....and they come out clean...all the time....they are not dry cleaned ..they are machine washed...she sets the machine to wool...and pops them in...and 30 mins later out they come..all cleaned...
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Not even sure this is wool ,, just looks like it could be !! I wouldn`t do $100. either !! You can take it to a regular dry cleaners and ask their price,, it does not have to be a carpet cleaner !! They have large machines !! In a pinch some local Laundromats have a dry clean machine for about $10. then air dry. No machine dry !! Just spread it outside and let the sun do the work !!
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If there is a loose thread someplace, you could clip a 1/4" length and do a "flame test" to determine if the piece is wool or not.
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If there is a loose thread someplace, you could clip a 1/4" length and do a "flame test" to determine if the piece is wool or not.
There are a few threads. None that I can see that long but I might be able to get one out.
So should I not soak the rug?
I honestly don't mind the stains, I just want to get most of the dirt out...ideally on my own.
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In that case just get a couple of cans of aerosol spray carpet cleaner and a brush, few cleaning rags and get busy !!
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stick it in the washing machine,...no detergent...cool wash then hang it out to dry....
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stick it in the washing machine,...no detergent...cool wash then hang it out to dry....
Are you sure that won'y ruin it?
Thanks!
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Do the Aerosol carpet cleaner like I said above since you don`t know for sure !! You can use a little dish detergent, plain, no bleach added, on the tough stains !! When dry just vacuum well both sides !!
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Do the Aerosol carpet cleaner like I said above since you don`t know for sure !! You can use a little dish detergent, plain, no bleach added, on the tough stains !! When dry just vacuum well both sides !!
I'm hesitant to use aerosol cleaner because I once used car/carpet cleaner on the seats in my car and it destroyed them
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I agree with previous comments that it isn't NA.
Are you where you can buy woolite? Just a weak solution of that spot cleaning the stains could help.
How big is the piece and how heavy? That will determine if you ever put it in a machine!
Aerosols should be fine as long as you follow the directions and test a small area first always!!
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sometimes i think the world has gone nuts......do you have this carry on when you have a piece of clothing that...does,nt tell you how it should be washed....no you don,t...you use your common sense....well the same applies here...if you,re hesitant to machine wash it....then do as the natives did...hand wash it...its not rocket science.....
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sometimes i think the world has gone nuts......do you have this carry on when you have a piece of clothing that...does,nt tell you how it should be washed....no you don,t...you use your common sense....well the same applies here...if you,re hesitant to machine wash it....then do as the natives did...hand wash it...its not rocket science.....
Well it's not native, so if this was made to hang on the wall I don't know if it was made to be washed.
This is completely uncharted territory for me so it might as well be rocket science.
I don't know if wool can be hand washed...I have never had to do it...that's why I have so many questions.
I might just soak it in the tub and hope for the best because I seem to be finding mixed opinions on whether these rugs/tapestries can get wet
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If it was mine, before giving it a bath I'd try some cornstarch. Vacuum it first, then sprinkle cornstarch over it, and leave it for a day. Come back and go over it with a soft brush and then vacuum both sides again. If nothing improves...then you can try getting it wet. :o
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too many cooks....... ;D
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Tossing in 2 cents worth ... your item may be machine-made (esp since there appears to be black threads in the vicinity of the animal tail , in the body of the fabric) , since such errors would be corrected by a hand-weaver (IMO) right away & not be left as it is now .
I'd guess that it may be wool or cotton & may or may not have been hand-stitched on its' edges .
Got no guess , as to its' country/region of origin , though .
If it were in my mitts , I think I'd just use a cold water mild solution with some woolite (after it passed the test -the dark-colored areas- for colorfast properties) .
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We are kind of running out of options here !!
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mountains out of molehills if you ask me.....and to think you guys sent a man to the moon....but you can,t decide on how to wash a piece of material....the mind boggles.... ;D
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mountains out of molehills if you ask me.....and to think you guys sent a man to the moon....but you can,t decide on how to wash a piece of material....the mind boggles.... ;D
I didn't know if it had value (still don't) so I didn't just want to throw a large piece of wool in the water if it was worth something.
I basically just wanted to find out if it was possible to find out what group of people made it...wasn't trying to make the whole thing about cleaning the rug (wasn't even in my original question) ;)
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xafrican+rug+tapestry.TRS0&_nkw=african+rug+tapestry&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Do you see any bids here ??? An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay !! How many people were bidding on it at the auction you bought it at ??
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xafrican+rug+tapestry.TRS0&_nkw=african+rug+tapestry&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Do you see any bids here ??? An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay !! How many people were bidding on it at the auction you bought it at ??
None of those are similar.
But I get the point.
Was just asking here to see if anyone had any real information on it.
thanks guys
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Sorry !! Wish there were better news but value wise,, not much !! I have many items here that are not worth anything to speak of !! Point is that I like them regardless of monetary value !! Now isn`t that why you bought it ?? Because you liked it ?? It isn`t all about money you know !!
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Sorry !! Wish there were better news but value wise,, not much !! I have many items here that are not worth anything to speak of !! Point is that I like them regardless of monetary value !! Now isn`t that why you bought it ?? Because you liked it ?? It isn`t all about money you know !!
I agree.
And I don't care about the monetary value at all. I bought it because I like it.
The only reason I cared about the value was I didn't want to accidentally ruin it by cleaning it if it was worth a lot
Thanks Mart :)
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You know you can take it to your local dry cleaner and ask them what its made of ?? Its their business to know this stuff !! Once you know the material, you can make a better assessment of what to clean it with !! Doesn`t cost anything to ask ?? Just tell them the truth, that you haven`t made your mind up about cleaning it yet !!
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I've had items too big/heavy to wash...and not necessarily machine washable. I put them over my patio table and poured the Woolite through them at the stain...caught the liquid underneath and repeated a few times. Did with cold water first. If that didn't do the trick. Did next time with hot water. Have fun blasting it with the hose some! :)
(Note the table I use is like this one!)
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/40/40d6a1a2-a723-4d89-8ac5-bbfeae0ee546_300.jpg)
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I've had items too big/heavy to wash...and not necessarily machine washable. I put them over my patio table and poured the Woolite through them at the stain...caught the liquid underneath and repeated a few times. Did with cold water first. If that didn't do the trick. Did next time with hot water. Have fun blasting it with the hose some! :)
(Note the table I use is like this one!)
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/40/40d6a1a2-a723-4d89-8ac5-bbfeae0ee546_300.jpg)
don,t mention...blasting with hot water.....they,ll have kittens... ;D
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mountains out of molehills if you ask me.....and to think you guys sent a man to the moon....but you can,t decide on how to wash a piece of material....the mind boggles.... ;D
I didn't know if it had value (still don't) so I didn't just want to throw a large piece of wool in the water if it was worth something.
I basically just wanted to find out if it was possible to find out what group of people made it...wasn't trying to make the whole thing about cleaning the rug (wasn't even in my original question) ;)
was it not....well,did i just imagine seeing this in your first post......."PS. Is this worth spending the money to get professionally cleaned"...strikes me...this has become a farce....a bit like these guys....
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mountains out of molehills if you ask me.....and to think you guys sent a man to the moon....but you can,t decide on how to wash a piece of material....the mind boggles.... ;D
I didn't know if it had value (still don't) so I didn't just want to throw a large piece of wool in the water if it was worth something.
I basically just wanted to find out if it was possible to find out what group of people made it...wasn't trying to make the whole thing about cleaning the rug (wasn't even in my original question) ;)
was it not....well,did i just imagine seeing this in your first post......."PS. Is this worth spending the money to get professionally cleaned"...strikes me...this has become a farce....a bit like these guys....
That was the last thing in a long post and it wasn't me asking how to clean it at al...it was me asking if it was worth enough money to have it professionally cleaned...obviously not what I was intending to focus on in the main question
If this is a farce to you no one is forcing you to respond to the question...
I understand that it's nearly impossible to tell where this is from specifically which was my main intent of asking the question, so I guess this case is rested!
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not before time!!......btw....i must assume you were last in the queue....when humour was being dished out.....don,t take it too seriously.......i don,t..... ;)