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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hemster922 on July 14, 2013, 01:17:07 AM
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Not having much luck finding information on some of the framed art I've acquired. I like this piece so much I hung it in my bedroom, but I'm still curious.
Any info would be greatly appreciated! It measures 17" x 14.5" [outside frame]
15" x 12" [inside frame] I bought it for $30. The pictures don't do it justice..not very clear, but I can do better ~ Thanks!
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P5010045_zps3ea20635.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P5010045_zps3ea20635.jpg.html)
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P5010044_zps4429a2b7.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P5010044_zps4429a2b7.jpg.html)
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as another member will say..need to see the back....is there glass on the front, if yes..then its most likely a print....
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Here are pics of the back Bigwull [I forgot to post them]. I took a peek under one of the tears in the paper and it looks like wood of some sort, rough in texture.
The woman I bought it from said it was by a famous photographer, but couldn't remember the name.
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P5010050_zps0de6965d.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P5010050_zps0de6965d.jpg.html)
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P5010048_zpsa6d38bdb.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P5010048_zpsa6d38bdb.jpg.html)
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Maybe email or give the company a call...their phone number is still the same.
http://isabelle.hubweb.net/html/business.html (http://isabelle.hubweb.net/html/business.html)
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The paper on the back is just a dust cover and from the phone number that was put on fairly recently !! I think the area code system was started in the 60`s !! It looks like a sepia print to me but no real way of knowing without taking the dust cover off and looking at the pic itself !! Its most likely a print done from a photo !!
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Edward Steichen is the name behind this piece apparently. I just looked it up and its identical to his "Heavy Roses" photo dated 1914.
Now I know I'm not lucky enough to be holding something so valuable :( the only question I have is whether it was worth what I paid for it..
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http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4478955
Don`t know how many of these were done but even if later print,,its sure worth checking out !! I would say yes it is worth what you paid and then some !! The one on the link was a gift from him to the Met. Museum !!
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Edward Steichen is the name behind this piece apparently. I just looked it up and its identical to his "Heavy Roses" photo dated 1914.
Now I know I'm not lucky enough to be holding something so valuable :( the only question I have is whether it was worth what I paid for it..
maybe lady luck has just tapped you on the shoulder......you just never know.....we,ve got our fingers and tootsies crossed.... ;D
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Yes we do !!
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oh boy I could sure use that lady luck..
So where do I go? What do I do? Sell it? ~ Ebay?
...here I go getting excited again, been there done that, but it's worth a try, no?
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Do you have a good Art gallery close to you ?? If so I would take it there first and let them take a look !! Where are you located ??
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Lucky, lucky you! ;D
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Mart I'm in Sussex county NJ. No reputable art galleries here but a hop & a skip from me is an Auction house in Sugar Loaf NY.
I had contacted them once before on some furniture.
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You are in NJ, the Met isn`t that far !! Try looking online and see if you can find an email address for them !! Since he was curator there they would be the most knowlegable about his work especially since they have some of it !! Send them a couple of good pics !! Or just give them a call tell them what you have,, they may know how many were done !! The fewer that were produced the better !! They may be able to help you confirm it !! Make sure what you have before thinking about selling it !!
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Mart, you're beautiful! You're ALL beautiful!
I won't get my hopes up, but a little excitement never hurts :)
I'll try my darndest, and keep you posted. Thanks so much for the advice!
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I will say a prayer that is a good one !! Yes,,keep us posted !!
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seems I can only contact the Met via phone, so I'll do that tomorrow and see where it takes me.
But in the meantime I put a call into an old customer of mine who is affiliated with the Guggenheim Museum in NY. [I forgot all about him]
And I'm trying to take better pics!
Thanks so much for the prayers Mart! I'm praying too! Would be nice to have a good thing happen :)
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We all hope it is a good one !! Fingers and toes crossed like Bigwull said !!
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Love these adventures.....
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Sometimes museums won't do appraisals though. At least you'll know what you have. In my case the curator gave me phone numbers and email addresses to contact.
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This may turn out to be an adventure afterall!
I made contact with the Senior Director of Photography at the Swann Gallery in NYC, and after many email exchanges and photos sent she asked if I could come in to see her so she could further evaluate the piece!
Said "Should we be able to offer the piece at auction there would certainly be a sale for it"
What it comes down to, is whether it is a "photogravure" or a "silver gelatin" print.
[fingers, toes, eyes, legs and NOSEhairs crossed that it be a silver gelatin!]
:)
...now...how to get to the city for a whole day... ???
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you forgot about yer chuckies...assumimg that you,ve got chuckies...that is, ;D..but nae worries eh,ve got mine crossed...jist in case you,ve no...... ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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LOL! Bigwull I'm pretty sure it's not chuckies I have, but rather Bazingas!
...and I'll cross them too! [while I'm at it] ;D
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;D ;D
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This is exciting for all of us !! I hope its that gelatin print too !! But even if it isn`t might be worth a few !!
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She mentioned a range of $1000 - $1500 if its a photogravure Mart! I'm VERY excited about that!
I've been researching the difference between the two processes all day, and studying the picture itself by using a magnifying glass and taking many close up pictures.
And what I notice is that there seems to be tiny flecks of light coming off of it. And maybe its just my eyes going ga-ga but the surface of the picture has a funny texture to it.
Am I driving myself crazy with this? - ABSOLUTELY! ....can't take the suspence
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I live in NJ and have dealt in antiquities for 30 years. Get in your car and take it to Christies in NYC. It is only an hour from Sussex or maybe 90 minutes. Then you will know. They are very nice there You can also email them.
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Me too frogpatch! Since 1982 Ive been getting my hands dirty and loving every minute of it!
I have contacted Christies as well this morning. Just haven't heard back as of yet.
:)
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Frogpatch that's where the museum sent me.
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Not being into photography or print making, I just have lightly touched on various types,, but if I remember,, the gelatin prints have a certain reflective quality !!
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These are a couple of the close up shots I took of the picture.
Can you see the flecks? Much better with a flashlight and a magnifying glass.
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P7150021_zps5c6c52cd.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P7150021_zps5c6c52cd.jpg.html)
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P7150024_zpse134fcd5.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P7150024_zpse134fcd5.jpg.html)
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I'd say it's just a print, not a gelatin. It's substantially larger than quality prints of the same work
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I'm glad you said that icpress!, because thats what I thought when this artist was first identified and I did some real research.
Problem I have, is why the Senior Specialist of Photographs at a reputable art gallery made no mention of that, given that was the first of the details passed along [?].
If the size is a determining factor, then it would be foolish of me to exhaust any more time planning a trip to the city over something easily realized.
Thats what I'm trying to prevent.
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Have you tried calling the framer and asking if this is a stock item they have on hand? Their website indicates they grow orchids...maybe flower prints are part of their inventory as well. ???
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I left a message & and email Rauville. Thank you for the advice
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Hi Everyone!
It's been 7 months since this original post and I must say I'm still at a complete standstill with this piece!
I've taken it it to experts. "Photogravure" has been ruled out [and documented]. But of the many evaluations I've been able to get over the months, not one of them are definitive or confirming as to print process.
In other words, I still do not know what it is that I have here and it's driving me crazy!
Silver Gelatin and Platinum are suspect, but due to confusion on the age of this piece and type of paper it was printed on so far no one can confirm for me what this is, and the mystery continues!
I was advised to remove it from the glass frame and have it professionally mounted [which I've done].
It's been viewed under microscopic contraptions, and the paper blacklighted to test for age, and still I'm advised to have it further investigated.
How can this be? I've pretty much exhausted my resources and am baffled as to what to do next.
I also contacted Aperture [who apparently controls Stiechen's work in some way] and the first thing I was asked was if this piece was acquired through them..[there would be a watermark]...when I said "No, it was purchased at an estate sale", the woman suggested I contact the original owner. I said "That would be impossible due to the fact that she's passed"...the woman then suggested I contact the next of kin.
[[[shaking head]]]
Another expert, a gallery owner, who has been in the business for over 30 years and a big fan of Steichen's work said "If I don't know what this is, that's a very good thing, it means you have something"
...ok...BUT WHAT?
Help ???
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Have you tried a museum curator ?? Have you contacted the Metropolitan Museum of Art ?? Remember the artist gifted one of his works to them !! (page1) The one that was sold by Christies !!
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I tried the Met by phone and could not get a person so I emailed with pics some time ago and response was that my email was accepted but it may take weeks for it to be reviewed and responded to by the appropriate person. Emailed again yesterday after visiting another gallery owner in NY who also advised me to do so.
I was in contact with Swann Galleries Vice President and Director of Photography as well some time ago, and after many emails back & forth she gave me an open invitation to visit her at the gallery when I could find a day to travel into the city. Recommended that the piece be removed from under glass, and when I did so and revealed that there were no markings or signature on the back she wrote me that the piece may not be appropriate for their auctions without a signature. [I wasn't looking for it to be auctioned off. Just properly identified]
...confused, so I never got to her.
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So now you've removed it from the frame, can i see an image of the reverse and of the edge at an angle, both in good ( preferably natural ) light
Difficult to tell but it looks like good quality paper that it's printed on, not cheap glossy stuff.
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And did you ever contact the owner of Orchid ? Surely he'd remember framing this.
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The one gallery owner wrote in his description that though the age of the paper is unknown it appears to be of high quality. Also that this is in no way a "low end print".
And 3 calls & emails were made to the framing co. no reply
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I'll post pics as soon as I can Ipcress any input is MUCH appreciated Thank you!
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http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110037_zpse91ab333.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110035_zps9dff2c2e.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110030_zpsbc2aec81.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110034_zps710f92cd.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110041_zps9857a523.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/PC110047_zps50af4669.jpg
These are pics taken when removed from frame.
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Well the quest continues!
Been in contact with the met, whos curators emailed me a short list of experts they recommend to view this piece.
..frustrating..I just wish I had a definitive answer as to what this is so that I can sell it with a proper description. I never expected this to be so hard
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OK !! But admit it,,its kind of exiting too !! Isn`t it ??
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Did you watch the "60 Minutes" episode regarding the art forger?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wolfgang-beltracchi-best-art-forger-in-history/ (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wolfgang-beltracchi-best-art-forger-in-history/)
I'm sure it's one of several reasons why the "experts" are becoming more hesitant to verify anything.
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I just watched Rauville ~ interesting, that guy is amazing! But aw, man..please don't let there be any crazy story behind my picture! I also just read that the couple who found 10 million dollars in gold coins have to give them up because they were found to of been stolen in the late 1800's! That has to hurt.
I just got another invite to have this viewed at a different gallery in NYC this Saturday...[and yes mart..it is exciting! :) ] so we'll see what happens, but this is it for me!
If I come up empty, back on the wall it goes!
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If we heard the same report on the coins they said stolen from the mint in 1901,, these coins were dated way before that and are in near mint condition so that should put a kink in that theory !!
Be sure and let us know what they say !!