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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: frogpatch on July 22, 2013, 12:46:58 PM
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My wife spotted this and we brought it for 15.00. It was marked 1940s chest. The pulls are not original.I don't think it ever had pulls as It has a hand hole under the drawer to open it. The knobs are not original. The top is one single wide board and the door panels are chamfered into the frames as is the drawer bottom. They have a crotch mahogany veneer that is bookmatched. At first I thought it was a midcentury modern piece by the curved drawer without pulls. However one close look and it is way older. The bracket feet are broken and there is a weird finish covering it that makes it lighter than the wood beneath. That spot on the top is where the finish is missing.They even put it on back and sides but not the front. Note the square nails. This piece just makes no sense to me. I think it is a washstand because it is looks like one.
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More Pics
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great find for $15....would say its made of primarily,mahogany...the top has a burr on it which i like, the shelves are made of pine,...date wise, i,d say 1920,s...you won,t go wrong with this......and it would burn well..... :D
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The top looks 19th to me, and the whole has been varnished / aged so it matches up.
Curious thing.
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Nice little country washstand for that kind of money. Probably had a backsplash and towel bar(s) of some sort at one time. Looks like grain painting on the backside?
Here's a somewhat vaguely similar styled one that was at a show in Vermont. Priced at $295, and noted at being circa 1850. ???
(http://maineantiquedigest.com/antiques-archive/stories/vada1012-8.jpg)
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Does it show where the backsplash and towel racks would have attached ??? You didn`t show the dovetails,,, Would you please Frogpatch ??
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Mart, there are no dovetails. You can see that the drawer front is wider than the sides. The fact that there is a underside grip on the drawer has convinced me that there were no handles. There are two in the back which must have supported something but they are only near the top and very small.. The curious thing to me is the fact that the drawer was opened from below without hardware.
Rauville I see a similarity but the underside handgrip is what really confused me. It is not painted grain. I looked at it through a loop and the grain is continuous where the finish has been lost.
I would like to remove the pulls, fill the holes, and make it plain but my wife likes it the way it is.
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Then how are the drawer sides attached !! Would still like to see the construction of those drawers !! Would like to see one of those nails out !! This stand must have been stripped at some point,, I don`t see the age I would expect around those nails and oddly,, they look like horse shoe nails !! Bigger heads than I would expect on something this size !! But that may just be the pic !!
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Yup, washstands usually had a back-splash or a towel-bar bow.
The top board looks like black walnut.
The square nails look ok to me
What you might have there is the base for a 2-part bow-front hutch or cupboard.
And it was a silly person who put the pulls on the drawer ....... but if I were you I would leave them there unless you are really good at using those "wax" pencils.
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it never ceases to amaze me...the choice of words used in the US...to describe items of furniture....over here, a "hutch"..is for keeping rabbits in....see loink to palatial...bunny houses.....
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rabbit+hutch&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=5VfuUYTQC-mN7Abz8oCwBw&ved=0CG8QsAQ&biw=1198&bih=665
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Mart. There are pictures of the front and rear drawer joining. The rear is nailed and the sides fit in a groove on the front which is wider that the interior of the drawer.
We have rabbit hutches over here too Bigwull.
I think it i missing a splash board because their are two holes. A towel rack would have required four.
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....over here, a "hutch"..is for keeping rabbits in....
Well duh, over here it is the same "hutch" ......... but for keeping "dust bunnies" and other things in.
The building of those "hutches" became far more elaborate many years after the Pilgrims were first dumped off on the New England coast.
T'weren't no need to change the name just cause they "growed up", ..... now t'was there? ;D ;D ;D
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I think it i missing a splash board because their are two holes. A towel rack would have required four.
The top section of a hutch only requires two holes.
(http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/6548332/P14128942.jpg)
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ps, ....... "Its a washstand", ......... if that's what you want it to be.
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I don't need a wash stand. We have had running water here for a while now. It is too short for a hutch bottom. Only 29 inches. We are using it as a place to put stuff that has no other place to be put. So I will call it a stuff keeper.
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Frogpatch,, what you call a pull under the drawer front,, is there only one ?? Or is there one on each side ?? If only one would have to be in the center,, that looks like its on the side !! Actually to me ,,when I enlarged it,,it appears to be where a knot fell out !! It doesn`t look like it was made intentionally !! Those type hidden pulls were not used till mid 20th century !! I have looked most of the day today for anything similar and while I found a couple of similar ones,, there is no record of a hidden pull !!
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I'ma laughin' at the lot of you on this one. Hutches for rabbits, falling knot holes....
Isn't this site grand???!!!!???
Looks like a hall cabinet to me that might have boasted a mirror attached to the back!
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Looked for those and any bureau similar and found nada !! Most like this was one with a marble top and backsplash !! Don`t think this was one though !! They were the more ornate stands !!
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I believe it was the cabinetmaker who cut those hidden pulls on the bottom inside edge of that bowfront ...... because he would have never used a piece of wood with a knot in it like that and/or in that location ...... because sawing thru a knot pretty much guarantees that it just might fall out.
And it was those hidden pulls that convinced me that it was not a washstand. And that is because washstands were used daily, and even several times each day .... and oftentimes by different residents and/or guests in the same household.
Ya wouldn't put a hidden pull on a restroom door, now would ya? ;D ;D
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Cogar, that's what I mean,, that indention was not made intentionally, when I enlarged the pic the inside and surrounding edge was so rough that it looked like a knot had dried and fell out !! Now if there is another on the other side,, then maybe it was done as a pull !! But if ( and I am sure you have ) you have ever tried to pull one of these older drawers out by using one pull instead of both hands,, it usually doesn`t work too well because one side will start but not the opposite one and it sticks !! No, you wouldn`t think they would have used a board like that but,,,who knows !!
I would like to know if those square nails are the only type used in the construction or is there a mixture ??
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Are my eyes deceiving me...when you show the pic of the inside of the cabinet...it appears that the BACK edge of the top shelf is cut in a bow shape while the front (open side to camera lens) is straight? Whereas the cabinet itself is bow in in the front?
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It is your depth perception thats deceiving you.
The bow you are seeing is the bottom of the drawer front.
I had to look twice to get my eyeballs seeing right.
Actually t'was my brain that needed a reinterpreting.
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Its a serpentine drawer front KC, the kind that wraps the outside edge a little !! Very similar cut to the French Provincial drawers of the 60`s !!
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This is getting crazy due to my cell phone pictures. I will put up new ones tomorrow. In the interim I will say that the hand hole is definitely original. The pulls are not as they are held on with wood screws that have poked through the wood on the inside of the drawer on the thinner section. Th door knobs are newer too. Look at the surface mounted lock. I have not looked close at that yet. Actually I have not have not even turned it over except when I put it in the car and all I saw were spider webs.
If there i anything you would like to see that would help please tell me and I will add it.
Thanks
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I think it i missing a splash board because their are two holes. A towel rack would have required four.
The top section of a hutch only requires two holes.
(http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/6548332/P14128942.jpg)
i sometimes wonder about you.....what with your skyscraper "hutch"...and them pointed gnashjers.....
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Wow! I was looking at this and realized it reminds me of one of my own pieces of furniture... Despite the missing back piece which sticks up a bit, it looks very similar with the drawer and cabinets.
(http://s23.postimg.org/qbta92wdn/DSCN1086.jpg)
Sorry for the horrible lighting... it doesn't actually have a yellow top. It had a lamp behind it and I couldn't exactly move the lamp :P
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Looks similar???....i want some of what you,ve been taking..... ;D
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Mart, the hand hole is in the center so there could not be one on the other side.
The holes are right below the top in the back top rail. One on each side. Anything tall would be unstable if attached there. Most top pieces of "hutches" just sit there unattached. Some rest in holes in the top as do splashes. Like I said it is only 29 inches tall. I have two real open hutches and a step back cupboard and the bases are all taller than that.
New pictures in the morning for you.
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When you take those pics tomorrow turn that drawer over and get a pic of the entire underside of it !! As close as you can and keep the whole thing in the pic !! Are the square nails the only kind used in this or is there more than one kind of nail !!
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Frogpatch, I don’t know who made that cabinet or when, but it has all the “signs” of a pre-1882 hand-made solid Walnut base cabinet.
1-board burl Walnut top
solid Walnut chamfered door panels (and probably side panels)
solid Walnut 2-board chamfered back panel
serpentine drawer front cut from 4-quarter (4/4”) or 5-quarter (5/4”) solid Walnut board
square nails
hand-cut drawer front mortises
surface lock on door is original – note clearance cut-out @ front edge center of shelf
The door-stops on the bottom shelf are newly added or replaced. (door-stops were more often placed above the doors on the top cross-member, …. simply because “pressure” was applied at the top of the door when closing it, not at the bottom of the door)
The top portion of a 2-part cabinet is only unstable relative to it “falling” forward, … not backward, …… except for when it is being moved toward the wall or away from the wall. Thus, a 2-screw strap on the backside (1 strap in center or 2 straps with 1 on each side) is sufficient to stabilize cabinet top. (or a piece of wire and 1 nail/screw in the wall above the cabinet, works also :D :D )
The cabinet’s current height of “only 29 inches tall” is irrelevant given the possibility that the legs could have been cut off …. or ….. that is the original height that the cabinetmaker chose to make it. Most furniture of that era was “made-to-order”, …… it was not ordered “already-made”.
And keep in mind the fact that the average height of a female in the 1800's was 5 feet (60") tall.
The wife’s grandfather was a cabinetmaker and carpenter and all the furniture that he made was for himself or his children, …. but was “made-to-order” for all his customers ….. including the dozens n’ dozens of caskets that he “made-to-fit” the dear departed. ;D
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Mart, here is the one of two nails from the bottom and a picture of the drawer bottom. The nails are the older and forged variety that were used until the 1860s or so. Not square sheet cut. I have more pics but I keep getting error messages about the size. They are the same as the first so I don't know what the problem is.
Cogar, thanks for the info. The piece was never cut down. I can tell, trust me. I did this for forty years.
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More Pics including a bottom detail
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Two more
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Much better pics !! Kind of hard on the first ones to figure it out because its little pieces here and there and you have to put it together like a jigsaw puzzle !! What I was looking at was not the hidden pull in the first pics !! That's why I asked the questions !! Good light works wonders on these things !! $15. bucks,, ?? I would say you did well !! Have to agree with Cogar on age at mid 1800`s !! I personally have never seen a hidden pull that early !! Not to say they didn`t use them,, evidently they did,, I have just not found one !! Good score on this !!
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I would say now that I dragged out in the yard and saw it upside down that it is around 1860 ish. It has a transitional Empire to Victorian look. I do not come across those hand smashed nail heads often. I saw a blacksmith in Williamsburg making them. He would cut a piece of hot iron at a shear angle, drop it in a hole in an anvil and whack the top with a hammer. He could make about a dozen per minute. The points are always squared off.
I still do not think it had a cupboard or open shelf on top. It is too small to me. If anything a splash. I showed the photo of the only holes and where they are. They did have a purpose once I would guess.
That hand hole really threw me off. I am thinking about removing the pulls and filling the holes, I know I can make them go away completely. I once to get paid to do that sort of thing. I doubt my wife will let me. She found it.
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The points are always squared off.
Squared off points are always good. They won't cause the wood to split like sharp pointed nails will. They "cut" the wood when driven in. They don't spread the wood apart like sharp pointed nails will do.
Anyway, Frogpatch, I scanned these images out of my ... "Book Two - Country Furniture", ...... and I did so FYI, ......... to wit:
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The points are always squared off.
Squared off points are always good. They won't cause the wood to split like sharp pointed nails will. They "cut" the wood when driven in. They don't spread the wood apart like sharp pointed nails will do.
Anyway, Frogpatch, I scanned these images out of my ... "Book Two - Country Furniture", ...... and I did so FYI, ......... to wit:
but anyone worth their salt knows that if you dull the point of a nail it will not split the wood...to .woo..
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Cogar,
I am not trying to create a debate or be argumentative but please scale this on paper. The piece is 29 high x 29 wide x 14 deep. If you were to have a case on top it would around 10 inches deep x 28 inches wide and maybe 30 inches high. That would create a piece that was less than five feet tall and just shy of 2 1/2 feet wide. This is all approximation of course. It would be a very small cupboard. The piece you are showing me has no top either. The other has a table base. I have a very small open hutch with H hinges right behind where I am sitting. It is the smallest one of these that I have ever seen. It is still 6 feet tall, three feet wide and 18 inches deep. Do you see what I am saying. This thing is the same size as any washstand that I have ever had. Why can't it be one?
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a 6 feet tall hutch....gawd..that s big enough for Harvey....to woo ;D
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Cogar,
I am not trying to create a debate or be argumentative but please scale this on paper. The piece is 29 high x 29 wide x 14 deep. If you were to have a case on top it would around 10 inches deep x 28 inches wide and maybe 30 inches high. That would create a piece that was less than five feet tall and just shy of 2 1/2 feet wide. This is all approximation of course. It would be a very small cupboard.
Yup, that would be a small cupboard. Best you check this Windsor chair out. ;D
http://www.nj.com/homegarden/design/index.ssf/2008/09/kovels_childrens_furniture_old.html (http://www.nj.com/homegarden/design/index.ssf/2008/09/kovels_childrens_furniture_old.html)
This thing is the same size as any washstand that I have ever had. Why can't it be one?
Frogpatch, ….. I told you it could be a washstand, ….. but if it is, …. it is an awful elaborate one that was specially made for a ritzy rich customer.
An yway, .............
You said = #27 - Like I said it is only 29 inches tall. I have two real open hutches and a step back cupboard and the bases are all taller than that.
I said = #27 - The cabinet’s current height of “only 29 inches tall” is irrelevant given the possibility that the legs could have been cut off …. or ….. that is the original height that the cabinetmaker chose to make it.
You said = #30 - Cogar, thanks for the info. The piece was never cut down. I can tell, trust me. I did this for forty years.
Then I posted 2 pictures of cabinets, including their dimensions, ….. with a THICK RED LINE underneath the BASE height dimension FYI, … one being 29” high and the other 28” high. And because of their “turned” legs one can be fairly confident they have never been cut down.
Yup, and the bases of your 2 pieces are both taller than the above 2 pieces. So what?
But anyway, if your cabinet is pre-1880 …. and given the fact that it has 4 straight legs (see Post #32), ….. then I’m sure not brave enough to be betting my last cold 6-pack of beer that those legs have never been cut down at sometime in the past 130+ years.
I was good too, and iffen I had cut them down ........... ::) ::) ::)
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I have an update for this old post. While reading the description of Early Commode Washstand 1840-1860 in my 1952 Field Guide to American Victorian Furniture I found this. "Drawer front...placed in an overhanging frieze, is boldly ogee molded with finger grips on lower edge.."
Mystery solved. The pulls were added later. Someone tried to paint it like oak but only did the sides and back for some reason.
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Late to this thread but I'd say, classic mid 19th century panel construction and, for 15 bucks, how can you go wrong?
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Still makes me laugh to read this from way back when.
Hope you have been making some good use of this over time frogpatch.
By-the-way...how in the world did you come up with the name "frogpatch"?
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KC, When I needed a screen name for a site where anonymity was key, I made it up by taking Lil Abners home of Dogpatch and changing it to Frogpatch. Then I started using it for a screen name on Hub Pages. I even owned Frogpatch.com but when it expired someone stole it in hopes that I would buy it back. Today I have my first and last name as a dot com for my writing portfolio. By the way I did not know that people could go into my profile and get my personal info. I got an email addressing me by my full name from someone here. No big deal.
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Frogpatch,, you remember that little line that used to be under your posts ?? That's how !! Just click on it and it gave a writing bio !! Old one did not sure about later one,, you changed it !!
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Like the frogpatch origin! :)
I do remember that you could click on a link!
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Mart, this email was only last week. That signature was removed a long time ago.
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By the way I did not know that people could go into my profile and get my personal info. I got an email addressing me by my full name from someone here. No big deal
Just click the poster's name and it will display his/her profile.
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Forgot about that, Cogar !! But that's where it likely came from !!
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I see it, my website is public which is my name. I need to remove that. My email is my name @ me.com which forwards to my personal email.
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That's a good move there (editing your account details) frogpatch !
You can always e-mail Ed (if somebody here gets outta e-line with you) ... there's been a spate of 'interested' spammers getting memberships/posting here , so sometimes odd/spurious emails happen ... gotten a few myself & always from 'new' members .
Hope it's fixed now & all better !
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Had some problems earlier today. Whenever I tried to type the letter "l" the computer would go crazy and continually type. Only on this site! Now it is working fine! Weird! (I have a Mac)
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I'm chiming in late, but just wanted to say that I love it! Very cool and a steal at $15 bucks!