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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 01:15:42 PM

Title: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 01:15:42 PM
I have looked everywhere for a table similar to this one and can't find it. I am not a professional antiques person and really want to know about this table. It has been in my family for at least three generations. I was told a great grandfather brought it across the Panama Canal. Anyone know it or have any advice for me? It would be highlt appreciated!

It has metal feet, a removable top and original paper rectangles with pencil written on them are tacked to the bottom and insides of it. It is light and the decorations and fittings are brass.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 11, 2013, 02:05:15 PM
Can we get a good clear pic of the paper labels and one of the top, please !!  Where did your great grandfather come from ??
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 02:28:30 PM
Photos...
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 02:31:41 PM
One more...
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 02:34:31 PM
I don't know where my grandfather came from.  :-\ I am told that side of my family is a mix that includes German, Scotch and Polish, mostly German.

The top split in half rather cleanly. I am considering having it restored...even if it's not worth anything. It is a family heirloom either way.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 11, 2013, 03:53:01 PM
  Numbered like it is I would assume it was purchased at auction somewhere !! Can`t think of any other reason it would be marked like that !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 04:00:57 PM
 Numbered like it is I would assume it was purchased at auction somewhere !! Can`t think of any other reason it would be marked like that !!

 ??? Really? It was a while ago if so. I know my grandmother grew up with it in her house. I wasn't expecting that response at all. lol

By the way, I was guessing at "french, Napoleonic" do you think I am close? I really want to know more about it.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 11, 2013, 04:12:08 PM
Well, they had to purchase it somewhere !!  Could be another reason,,but that's what comes to mind !!  Ipcress is a bit closer to that area of the world,,let him look at it !!  A few others might know as well but he has been on today !!  Haven`t seen the others !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 11, 2013, 04:20:54 PM
Wow. I will try to post a better picture of the lables. It's a fancy N with curls on it's bottom left and upper right ends with a circle under the upper right curl. then 98X4

Thank you so much! I will wait and see if Ipcress sees it. :)
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Ipcress on August 12, 2013, 03:09:19 AM
Well i'm not sure about Napoleonic. The basic style is similar but the legs and the frieze are not. I like the legs though but those feet seem out of place, almost as if they were added at a later date to increase the table's height !

I'll admit though that non British furniture of this type is a secondary subject for me so i've e-mailed an old colleague

Had it been a Jacobsen or Niemeyer chair i'd have been straight in  ;D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: cogar on August 12, 2013, 04:36:08 AM

 ??? Really? It was a while ago if so. I know my grandmother grew up with it in her house. I wasn't expecting that response at all. lol

That ## t'was nothing to worry about. Me thinks they have been auctioning off household good for far longer than that table has been around.

But anyway, that could be an "inventory #". It was common practice in the old days for the contents of the homes of the "well-to-do's" to be inventoried either pre or post their demise.

And it is those "inventory lists" that permits the preservaton societies to "track down" furniture. etc. when restoring a home of some noted family/person.  ;D

PS: here is reference of one such "list".

Historical Notes: When Thomas Jefferson married the young widow Martha Wayles Skelton in January 1772, she brought to their household a number of items acquired during her first marriage to Bathurst Skelton, 1766-68. On January 18, 1772, Jefferson made a list in his Fee Book, "By sundry European goods on hand at the death of B. Skelton & taken by me." The list mentions many household items, including one silver ladle, one dozen tablespoons, one dozen teaspoons, two pairs "gaderoon salts" with four glass liners and four "salt shovels."
http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/soup-ladle (http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/soup-ladle)
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Ipcress on August 12, 2013, 05:12:41 AM
Yeah, i don't see an auction house tacking / nailing a number to a table. More likely for shipping purposes.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 12, 2013, 07:22:30 AM
Yeah, i don't see an auction house tacking / nailing a number to a table. More likely for shipping purposes.

Well,, Had no idea how they may have done the numbering years ago,, !! 
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Ipcress on August 12, 2013, 07:59:55 AM
Do you see an auction house intentionally damaging an antique table, even if it is only a tack ?

Always sticky labels, tied labels. Sometimes chalk which can be cleaned without damage,
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 12, 2013, 09:18:29 AM
Well,, back then it was just used furniture even if it is in a Napoleonic style !!  Wondering if the 98x4 would indicate that there were more !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Ipcress on August 12, 2013, 10:43:56 AM
Actually, Mart, that could be an auction house sticker. 98 would be the vendor's unique number and the table would be the 4th item on their list.
Could also be a delivery number, the 4 indicating how many items there were

I'd be disappointed if an auction house used tacks though. Same with stickers on books - leave it to the libraries to vandalise those.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 12, 2013, 10:54:12 AM
This has been handed down to me as well, made by a great grandfather on the same side of the family somewhere, a carpenter's tool box. He was a carpenter, of course.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 12, 2013, 11:03:29 AM
My Dad was a carpenter/builder and I see some of the same tools he had in his tool box !! Almost all carpenters had a similar tool box. Mitre saw, brace,  Little holes would hold the bits !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 12, 2013, 11:08:18 AM
It came to mind because Ipcress mentioned that the feet on the table may have been added later.

The tools are higgeldy piggeldy now. A mix of old and not so old. :)

P.S. I'm waiting for bigwull to tell me to burn it :D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: bigwull on August 12, 2013, 12:03:34 PM
It came to mind because Ipcress mentioned that the feet on the table may have been added later.

The tools are higgeldy piggeldy now. A mix of old and not so old. :)

P.S. I'm waiting for bigwull to tell me to burn it :D
the table yes...the tools no..... ;D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 12, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
Wullie thinks a lot of the things we like are kindling !!  ;)  Don`t you dare burn that table !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: bigwull on August 12, 2013, 04:01:08 PM
Wullie thinks a lot of the things we like are kindling !!  ;)  Don`t you dare burn that table !!
that,s because sometimes you,ve got the taste of an ingin.... ;D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 12, 2013, 06:54:49 PM
Wullie thinks a lot of the things we like are kindling !!  ;)  Don`t you dare burn that table !!

lol, I will NOT burn the table! It's been through 3 generations in my family. It's priceless to me...unless it turns out to be worth megabucks at auction...which I doubt. :) It's definitely not kindling though. Not sure what to do with the tools though  ;)
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 12, 2013, 07:19:57 PM
Well, A lot of them are newer !! But personally if you are going to play around with furniture like you mentioned,, you had better keep them !!  You would be surprised at how handy those hand tools are !! 
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: cogar on August 13, 2013, 01:58:57 AM
Quote
Little holes would hold the bits !!

Uh, ..... no, ...... not auger bits. ;) ;)
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: bigwull on August 13, 2013, 03:49:05 AM
Wullie thinks a lot of the things we like are kindling !!  ;)  Don`t you dare burn that table !!

lol, I will NOT burn the table! It's been through 3 generations in my family. It's priceless to me...unless it turns out to be worth megabucks at auction...which I doubt. :) It's definitely not kindling though. Not sure what to do with the tools though  ;)
[/quotesend them to me...]i,ll pay the postage...and i,ll send you a nice Scottish hamper.... :D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 13, 2013, 10:27:25 AM
Well,, that's where my dad kept his small wood bits,, not for the brace,, he had an electric drill !! Other side for nail set ect !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: KC on August 13, 2013, 10:43:31 AM
I almost lost my sip of tea when I was reading this thread and Cathy wrote "P.S. I'm waiting for bigwull to tell me to burn it :D"!  She has been watching this forum way-too-long!  LOLOL

Ipcress, unfortunately I have seen where older pieces went through auction houses and used tacking/upholstery nails on pieces that these days would be worth $$$.  Auction houses overall have gotten better through the years but the little mom/pop operations and importers just do what they can to get by.

I have been looking at this piece and can say I haven't seen another one like it.  If I view it with out the feet it looks more like an older one from across the pond.  I believe the feet were added as well.  I like the looks of it alot!!!!  LOVE THE FAMILY HISTORY OF IT!  You need to document it and keep it with it for generations to come!!!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Ipcress on August 13, 2013, 10:46:43 AM
Going on the image, he's said late 19th, 1870-1890 and is arts and crafts influenced although the exact country of origin is difficult to tell. I thought Napoleonic was a bit early but this table does seem to be taking influences from a couple of different places.

I agree with keeping it and saving it as a family talking point
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 13, 2013, 02:39:38 PM
I looked at others with the Napoleonic style and similar feet but very different legs !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 15, 2013, 07:02:16 PM
I think my first documentation will include posts from this forum. :)

Do the legs look like they're from anywhere? If the feet look added, maybe the whole table is...a collage? So looking at the seperate pieces, what do you think then? Where would the feet have come from?? And, I don't know where "across the pond" is. :/
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 15, 2013, 07:31:37 PM
My opinion is that the table is original as it is !! Its not the typical Napoleonic style and was possibly made as the styles began to change !! Its not unusual to have blended elements !!
Bigwull is across the pond in Scotland and we are across across the pond in the other direction in the U.S !!  So kind of depends on who is talking to know where it is !!  :D
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: fancypants on August 15, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Looks like a nice little piece , Cathy .

I'd just keep it oiled & leave it 'as-is' if it was in my place , v/s a refinish job ... kinda shows that it's 'been around' !!

Might be a good idea to not use it as a tv stand , though (heat is lousy for most antique wooden items) .

I'll agree about the mixed styles of the work on it , but it's nice & airy in its' stance !



Firewood for wullie pictured below -
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: KC on August 15, 2013, 11:24:48 PM
Really like how you worded that Fancypants and Mart!  Have to agree...after looking at more...the feet most likely were at a time of changing from one style to another.  Perhaps trying to create a whole new style?

Oh, Cathy I am in Texas...and "across the pond" would be toward England or Wullie's way (Scotland)!  We have people on the forum from all over the place (US, Canada, Scotland, England, Germany, etc)

Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: bigwull on August 16, 2013, 03:09:13 AM
Looks like a nice little piece , Cathy .

I'd just keep it oiled & leave it 'as-is' if it was in my place , v/s a refinish job ... kinda shows that it's 'been around' !!

Might be a good idea to not use it as a tv stand , though (heat is lousy for most antique wooden items) .

I'll agree about the mixed styles of the work on it , but it's nice & airy in its' stance !



Firewood for wullie pictured below -
Noooooooooo!!...this is,nt firewood....this is the Holy Grail for a cabinet maker....
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 16, 2013, 10:32:33 AM
I love tools where you use your hands rather than a battery pack !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: Cathy on August 16, 2013, 04:05:13 PM
What a neat tool set!

I have removed the TV from the table. My Mom always used lemon oil so that is what I have been using about once a year or so. Does this sound right?
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: bigwull on August 16, 2013, 04:13:42 PM
try vinegar....here,s a simple recipe....

2 Tbsp. olive oil
4 Tbsp. white vinegar
1 qt. warm water
2 qt. container with lid
2 soft cloth
it works perfectly a does not damage the wood...
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 16, 2013, 06:50:31 PM
A little lemon oil is fine,, No problems with Wullies recipe either although I would put it in a spray bottle and just shake well before using !!  Just don`t oil too much,, few times a year,, then just dust in between.  Wullies recipe is light enough that you could use it more often if you wish !! 
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: cogar on August 17, 2013, 02:39:31 AM
It wouldn't hurt any to spray some of Bigwull's mixture on the underside of the table top.
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: mart on August 17, 2013, 08:07:33 AM
I agree !!  Most old furniture would benefit from the moisture !!
Title: Re: French Napoleonic table?
Post by: ghopper1924 on August 17, 2013, 08:24:01 AM
"Going on the image, he's said late 19th, 1870-1890 and is arts and crafts influenced although the exact country of origin is difficult to tell. I thought Napoleonic was a bit early but this table does seem to be taking influences from a couple of different places."

Agree. I'd say right in the middle (1880) though there's no reason to suppose that the feet aren't original. Aesthetics of that time period encouraged a mixture of materials, and the feet look well matched.