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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: hemster922 on August 23, 2013, 08:11:59 PM
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(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P8150055_zpsd8fd797b.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P8150055_zpsd8fd797b.jpg.html)
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P8150058_zps6dfecdea.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P8150058_zps6dfecdea.jpg.html)
From my Grandmother's curio. I was told this was trimmed in 24k gold. It's not something I care to keep, but I don't know how to describe it.
Any advice?
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How do you know its German, ..... does either piece have a "mark"?
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(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w665/hemster922/P8150062_zpsebaeb120.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/hemster922/media/P8150062_zpsebaeb120.jpg.html)
I'm sorry! Here's the underside
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I can't really pin that backstamp down. It looks as if it's Vienna, but it's not.
All I can say for certain is that's Napoleon, and that's not much help!
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I thought that guy looked familiar! Thank you Mario!
Interesting little piece..I'll wrap it and keep it boxed for now, until I find out some more info.
It's in great condition, and I'd like to keep it that way :)
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Is that a beehive mark?
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I thought it was Napoleon also but he said Germany and uh ::) ::) ::)
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I found other Napoleon portrait items made in Germany !! They were likely just following the style of the time and if that's what was popular,,thats what they made !!
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Is that a beehive mark?
It certainly could be a beehive, that mark suggests Vienna or Bohemian to me
http://www.collectorscircle.com/bohemian/fakes/fakes2.html
but there could have been dozens of other makers that used something similar.
Any pot experts on board?
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and ...
http://www.oldandsold.com/pottery/germany17.shtml
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Chris Marshall would know but he only pops in occasionally !! Let me get the website !!
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http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/resources/fake_n_repro/00.php
Look here !!
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Ackermann & Fritze from the town of Volkstedt-Rudolstadt (Thuringia, Germany). Hard to date, best guess would be approx. 1908-1918.
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Well done Chris
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Thank you!
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Hey there Chris !! Still working hard ?? Good to see you back for a visit !!
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While researching I stumbled across this bit of info. from www.collectorscircl e.com
Thought it might help someone else..
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"" First, if the mark says, "Royal Vienna," it is not the Imperial and Royal Porcelain Manufactory, Vienna. No ifs, ands, or buts about it; it is a fake!
The bindenschild (shield) in the mark was a rendition of the center of the Coat-of-Arms for the royal Austrian Habsburg family. The Imperial and Royal Porcelain Manufactory used the marks impressed in the clay or blue ink underglaze from 1744 until 1864. Just because it is a blue underglaze mark or impressed mark that does not make it authentic. Don't be fooled.
Most imitations of the mark are the shield upside down thus it appears to be a beehive. Even many of the true marks turned upside down will look like a beehive. In Rontgen's book "Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain," page 575-576 Rontgen discusses the marks. To detect imitations of the true mark the book has the following guides,
Pieces with forged Vienna marks are usually heavily decorated with mythological or historical scenes, often with a description of the scene on the bottom. Quite a number of urns, vases and especially plates are signed "Angelica Kauffmann."
1. Any Bindenschild blue overglaze is a forgery. In the early years of the manufactory, circa 1744-1749, the shield occasionally was painted red, purple, black or gold overglaze, but never blue.
2. Any Bindenschild that is stamped blue underglaze or overglaze and shows perfect symmetry and shape is not a mark of the Vienna manufactory.
3. If inscriptions, signatures or letters are arranged in a way that the mark appears as a beehive, it is not the mark of the Vienna manufactory.
4. All impressed number, except 0-60 (molders and turners), 84-99 and 800-864 (year numbers from 1784-1864) are indications of a forgery.
5. Letters, words or shapes in gold overglaze are indications for forgeries. If a part of the bottom is covered with a golden shape, this shape usually hides the original manufacturers mark.
6. Any number over 155 painted in color overglaze is not an identification number of a decorator of the Vienna manufactory.
7. Any number over 27 blue underglaze is not the number of a decorator of the Vienna manufactory.
8. Any bottom description of a decoration or scene indicates that the piece was not decorated in the Vienna manufactory.
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I still can't seem to locate an example of the "sheild" [not beehive] that is stamped on these 2 pieces so I'm growing curiouser and curiouser...