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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: tjl11683 on September 24, 2013, 05:57:06 PM

Title: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 24, 2013, 05:57:06 PM
I have an antique mahogany or rosewood case approx 1850. The case does have a season split in the top and some of the brass trim is missing but otherwise in good condition. The case has two matching glass jars with lids, an antique treen dice cup, clay poker chips, hand made bone dice, poker dice, antique Samuel Hart playing cards in good condition in box - all 52 cards. The top tray lifts up with brass rings revealing two engraved percussion pistols in good working condition. One is missing a screw under the grip but otherwise, they are in very good condition. It also has a percussion cap tin. On the top right side of the case is a pin that when you lift up, a spring loaded drawer on the right pops open. In this tray is a set of antique eyeglasses, an antique straight razor, antique cigar container (marked GER Silver), and two card sleeve cheating tools made by Wizard pat date 1888. I have attached pics.  Do you know the value?
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: bigwull on September 24, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
Not that i,m into guns....but this is a very nice find...i could see this fetch...a lot of $$$$.....here might give you an idea...

http://www.oldwestantiques.biz/page75.html
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 24, 2013, 06:14:45 PM
This is wonderful


Worth a lot of money but even that depends on the pistols. Can we have close ups of those ? There should be proof marks near the barrel, possible makers marks too.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on September 24, 2013, 06:21:12 PM
Holy cats! That's awesome, old west collectors would love it! That said there are some beautiful functional reproduction pistols. I would start by looking up the serial numbers.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on September 24, 2013, 06:24:09 PM
Here is one with an 1849 colt in it:

http://www.armslist.com/posts/1831524/greensboro-north-carolina-antiques-for-sale--antique-rosewood-gambling-case-with-1849-colt-pocket (http://www.armslist.com/posts/1831524/greensboro-north-carolina-antiques-for-sale--antique-rosewood-gambling-case-with-1849-colt-pocket)
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 24, 2013, 06:24:15 PM
Thanks!  Here are some more pics of the pistols.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: talesofthesevenseas on September 24, 2013, 06:28:19 PM
I'm wiping the drool off my chin! Beautiful! Here's another with an 1861 Colt:
 http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9468590 (http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9468590)
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 24, 2013, 06:46:45 PM
Are there no marks near the hammer / barrel ? Might only appear as three very small dots, or a bomb / cross.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: mart on September 24, 2013, 06:59:23 PM
Where did you get this set ??  Part of the value is going to be its originality !! Put together sets are much less valuable than one that has its original parts !!  It really looks like a nice one from what I can see !!
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: KC on September 24, 2013, 07:43:31 PM
Get a magnifying glass and look over the gun very carefully for any identifying information on it.  If you find any more please take a pic and post.  If you aren't able to take a pic of it please tell us what it says.

I am going to be posting some dueling pistols within the week that my sister-in-law inherited from her dad.  It is amazing how many identifiers are on them when you really look hard!
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 24, 2013, 07:52:06 PM
The barrels of the guns unscrew and both have a circle mark with the letters LEG and a star inside the circle.  tks
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: bigwull on September 24, 2013, 08:06:26 PM
I might be mistaken but...I think these pistols pre-date 1850....
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 25, 2013, 03:24:54 AM
The barrels of the guns unscrew and both have a circle mark with the letters LEG and a star inside the circle.  tks

Thought so. Belgian. Liege proof marks and dates them around 1900, which ties in with that particular pack of cards ( they could be replacements though ) and the German silver cigar case ( one seen here http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3145379 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3145379) )

A few clearer pics would be nice but i think we're in the low to mid four figures.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 25, 2013, 04:13:22 AM
Can anyone recommend the best place to sell something like this?
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: bigwull on September 25, 2013, 05:21:00 AM
You can sell it through a reputable Auction House that specializes in American Antiquities..you just need to Google...Auction of American Antiques.....then ..start enquiring...
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: jacon4 on September 25, 2013, 05:38:36 AM
Thought so. Belgian. Liege proof marks and dates them around 1900

Hmmmm, the feds consider any gun manufactured on or before 1898 as an antique and exempt from  federal gun laws. It would be ALOT easier to sell  what looks like a late 19th century gamblers kit if  guns were made before 1898. Some of these gamblers kits are very valuable, naturally, it all depends on the details, date of guns, is kit complete, condition, etc. I would have this checked by an appraiser that specializes in arms.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 25, 2013, 05:52:20 AM
Thought so. Belgian. Liege proof marks and dates them around 1900

Hmmmm, the feds consider any gun manufactured on or before 1898 as an antique and exempt from  federal gun laws. It would be ALOT easier to sell  what looks like a late 19th century gamblers kit if  guns were made before 1898. Some of these gamblers kits are very valuable, naturally, it all depends on the details, date of guns, is kit complete, condition, etc. I would have this checked by an appraiser that specializes in arms.

Strictly speaking those marks date it 1893 or later. It's the other items which are giving me a date of around 1900. Therefore an auction house can date the pistols as circa 1893, thus ' navigating ' the law.

The case deserves to be in a really fine sale. Depends where the original poster is in the US.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Rauville on September 25, 2013, 07:38:49 AM
Hmmmm, the feds consider any gun manufactured on or before 1898 as an antique and exempt from  federal gun laws. It would be ALOT easier to sell  what looks like a late 19th century gamblers kit if  guns were made before 1898. Some of these gamblers kits are very valuable, naturally, it all depends on the details, date of guns, is kit complete, condition, etc. I would have this checked by an appraiser that specializes in arms.

I wouldn’t worry about running afoul of the law with that pair of muff pistols. Black powder muzzle loading firearms have always been exempt from federal firearms laws, regardless of age. Some state and local governments might have an ordinance regarding the carrying of them loaded, but common sense would keep you out of trouble.
 
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 25, 2013, 08:00:50 AM
That's the law here in the UK. Percussion pistols like these are fine. It's pinfire which are illegal without the relevant documents / deactivation certs.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: jacon4 on September 25, 2013, 10:11:45 AM
Yeah, the whole gun thing here in the USA is weird considering that the constitution says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Bottom line? if it's 1898 or earlier, anyone can sell those guns, if it's 1899 or later, you need a federal gun license to sell arms.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 26, 2013, 03:54:45 AM
Thanks for everyone's help.  I decided to list the box for sale on gunsamerica.com for $1,750.00 which I think is a reasonable price.  Here is the link if anyone is interested.  Thanks again for all of your input.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/978007314/Poker_Case_with_matching_percussion_pistols.htm
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 26, 2013, 07:09:56 AM
The proof mark is ELG, not LEG.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: KC on September 26, 2013, 08:55:35 AM
Beat me to it Ipcress!  Good catch!
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: tjl11683 on September 26, 2013, 05:35:20 PM
Thanks! noted and corrected.
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: KC on September 27, 2013, 11:04:46 AM
Finally found the site I was looking for...try and contact these folks and see what they have to say
http://www.oldwestantiques.biz/page19.php# (http://www.oldwestantiques.biz/page19.php#)

The thing that is so unique about yours is dueling pistols!  Typical to see a single pistol!  Some examples..

ANTIQUE PISTOL, GAMBLERS TRAVEL BOX, CARDS & CHIPS realized $900 at auction but different gun
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6901741 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6901741)

1890's Gamblers Box
http://www.purecowboy.us/1890%27s%20Antique%20Gambler%27s%20Set%20with%20Derringer.htm (http://www.purecowboy.us/1890%27s%20Antique%20Gambler%27s%20Set%20with%20Derringer.htm)
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: jacon4 on September 27, 2013, 11:17:19 AM
agrees, the ones i have seen that command big money had a single pistol, usually a colt revolver with gambling items that were identified with a known gambler
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: bigwull on September 27, 2013, 11:38:27 AM
Although I am very anti gun....i,ll have to say that i don,t think these are duelling pistols...duelling pistols generally have a longer barrel...these short barreled pistols..would have a very limited range...coupled with the fact that they are smooth bored,...means ..that very quickly after the ball has left the muzzle..the effective range...would be minimal.....not 20yds..as was the norm distance......but could be closer..depending on the severity of the insult...
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 27, 2013, 11:59:19 AM
They're just pocket percussion pistols.

Place them in your trousers and when the guy opposite cheats a Royal Flush, shoot his knackers off  ;D
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: bigwull on September 27, 2013, 12:26:40 PM
Yeah!!...wide eye,d and ball less....as opposed to wide eye,d and legless..... ;D
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Rauville on September 27, 2013, 02:41:31 PM
Yeah!!...wide eye,d and ball less....as opposed to wide eye,d and legless..... ;D

Really...with the few chips in this kit the game probably never lasted long enough to have to shoot it out.:D
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: mart on September 27, 2013, 03:16:56 PM
With the couple of cheat sheets that was in the set, was more likely for self protection !!
Title: Re: Antique poker box with a pair of matching percussion pistols
Post by: Ipcress on September 27, 2013, 03:19:48 PM
Yeah!!...wide eye,d and ball less....as opposed to wide eye,d and legless..... ;D

Really...with the few chips in this kit the game probably never lasted long enough to have to shoot it out.:D

There was generally less currency around back then though, wasn't there ? It wasn't like Maverick or other films where each player has about 2000 chips each.

Maverick's quite a good film actually. Mel Gibson falling off wagons...