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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 11:09:38 AM

Title: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 11:09:38 AM
Any information on this sheet music would be great! ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 11:22:19 AM
Well, well

How many pages ?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 11:40:12 AM
31
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 11:55:18 AM
About 26cm x 33cm ?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 12:00:55 PM
Yes,  I looked at the conversion because here it is !2" x 10"
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 12:05:48 PM
Might be the 1792 edition then. The Impressario, K486. Price of 1 thaler ( abbreviated at the bottom ) with a bookplate for Riegel and Wiessner.

info@lubranomusic.com
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 12:12:14 PM
Not a bad value.  I bought 4 big boxes of music for $40.   I also, got this one that is signed which I think will have some value.  Still going through a lot of books.  Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 12:33:43 PM
Might be the 1792 edition then. The Impressario, K486. Price of 1 thaler ( abbreviated at the bottom ) with a bookplate for Riegel and Wiessner.

info@lubranomusic.com

Wait , I think I was looking at the wrong thing.  How much is 1 Thaler?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 12:42:14 PM
Found it about $125 not bad it paid for the boxes already plus some.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:07:07 PM
1 thaler was how much it cost when it was first published. " Pr 1 rthlr "

Where did you get $125 ?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 01:10:42 PM
Off some website.  Did it say a current value?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:13:28 PM
Not a bad value.  I bought 4 big boxes of music for $40.   I also, got this one that is signed which I think will have some value.  Still going through a lot of books.  Thank you so much!

Is this two images of the same Puccini sheet ?

Something to do with this person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_of_Montenegro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_of_Montenegro)

Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:16:02 PM
Off some website.  Did it say a current value?

Did what say a current value ?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
That Puccini - is the handwriting real ?!

It's an awesome thing if so
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 01:18:57 PM
Off some website.  Did it say a current value?

Did what say a current value ?
The site you found it on.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 01:20:22 PM
That Puccini - is the handwriting real ?!

It's an awesome thing if so

It is the front cover and inside page .Real signature.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:24:27 PM
Off some website.  Did it say a current value?

Did what say a current value ?
The site you found it on.

No, it's more historical.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
That Puccini - is the handwriting real ?!

It's an awesome thing if so

It is the front cover and inside page .Real signature.

Any chance of an image in better light showing the page ?

If that's real it's worth a few thousand
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:31:50 PM
Actually might be a facsimile

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6264245 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6264245)
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: greenacres on September 29, 2013, 01:36:09 PM
How would you find the realized price? Great find Icedgold!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on September 29, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
How would you find the realized price? Great find Icedgold!

http://www.worldcat.org/title/schauspieldirektor-eine-komische-oper-in-einem-aufzuge/oclc/219711258 (http://www.worldcat.org/title/schauspieldirektor-eine-komische-oper-in-einem-aufzuge/oclc/219711258)

That's where you can check the infortmation.

Auction prices - even for true first editions, sheet music pales in comparison with books. Very, very few auction houses list them individually. Usually a generic description like " a quantity of sheet music including Mozart, Beethoven etc "
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 03:08:32 PM
That Puccini - is the handwriting real ?!

It's an awesome thing if so

It is the front cover and inside page .Real signature.

Any chance of an image in better light showing the page ?
Here is a closer picture.  Also, here is the signature under his photo which I would expect to be auto penned.

If that's real it's worth a few thousand
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on September 29, 2013, 04:17:22 PM
Probably both autopen actually. darn.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 01, 2013, 08:36:47 AM
Found out that my Mozart is  The second edition of the piano-vocal score opera; Der Schauspieldirektor 1805.  A  MUSIC ANTIQUARIAN Shop is offering to purchase it.  Of course I don't have the actual price offer yet but they are also asking about buying other items in the lots I have.  So thinking this should turn out well.   ;D  I hope.... ???
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on October 01, 2013, 09:53:46 AM
Let us know what they offer. Any chance of an image of more of them ?

Dealing with a shop could be good. We're not talking life changing sums here so selling one at a time on Ebay could be laborious. Those pictured in the other thread looked more standard
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 01, 2013, 10:04:23 AM
I'll take some more pictures tonight of some of the older looking ones and post them.  I also, have put out some pictures to a couple of colleges to make sure I don't get taken for a ride .  LOL  I'm thinking even a second edition should at least get my $40 covered.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 01, 2013, 10:06:02 AM
Keep us updated !!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 01, 2013, 05:17:20 PM
So the man that owns the book store is offering $400 .  I'm still waiting on a couple of other opinions.  One reason is I was looking at the score and it might be hand written (which I forgot to send him a pic of the inside).  I can see impressions on reverse sides and some variances in the page numbers.  I'm posting a pic at what I'm looking at.  I want to make sure I am fully informed before I sell. 
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 01, 2013, 05:54:17 PM
I don`t see anything that makes me think it hand done !! Few dings and inconsistancies in the printing process but that's common since these were not done with the best quality paper/ink ect !!  But let Ipcress look at it !!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: bigwull on October 01, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
I don`t see anything that makes me think it hand done !! Few dings and inconsistancies in the printing process but that's common since these were not done with the best quality paper/ink ect !!  But let Ipcress look at it !!
That,s what $2 cheaters do for you....you don,t see half of what might not be there.... :D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 01, 2013, 06:30:02 PM
Hmmpf !!!  My cheaters only cost a dollar,,thank you !! ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 01, 2013, 07:30:39 PM
Mart, I am totally frugal too.  lol  Nothing wrong with that.   Here is a link to more sheet music images.  The ones that uploaded right of course.  http://s1255.photobucket.com/user/icedgold10/library/music
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: bigwull on October 02, 2013, 04:32:32 AM
Hmmpf !!!  My cheaters only cost a dollar,,thank you !! ;D
well take them back....you were done....i,ve got a few pairs of $400...ones here....i ,ve upgraded....do you want me to send them to you.....just think of all the things you,ll be able to see ,in style...that you can,t see at the moment.... ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 04:40:20 AM
Sounds like solid advise.  lol 
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: bigwull on October 02, 2013, 04:58:01 AM
Sounds like solid advise.  lol 
with a c perhaps...advice... ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on October 02, 2013, 05:59:16 AM
So the man that owns the book store is offering $400 .  I'm still waiting on a couple of other opinions.  One reason is I was looking at the score and it might be hand written (which I forgot to send him a pic of the inside).  I can see impressions on reverse sides and some variances in the page numbers.  I'm posting a pic at what I'm looking at.  I want to make sure I am fully informed before I sell. 

He's offering $400 for the Mozart ? Is it inscribed by anyone at all, any previous owner ?

Looks in good condition but they are not hand written notes / annotations.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 06:41:18 AM
Sounds like solid advise.  lol 
with a c perhaps...advice... ;D

OOPs!! ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 06:41:55 AM
So the man that owns the book store is offering $400 .  I'm still waiting on a couple of other opinions.  One reason is I was looking at the score and it might be hand written (which I forgot to send him a pic of the inside).  I can see impressions on reverse sides and some variances in the page numbers.  I'm posting a pic at what I'm looking at.  I want to make sure I am fully informed before I sell. 

He's offering $400 for the Mozart ? Is it inscribed by anyone at all, any previous owner ?

Looks in good condition but they are not hand written notes / annotations.
No inscriptions.   Why?
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on October 02, 2013, 06:56:30 AM
I've had books etc before where the value has been enhanced because of who previously owned it.


A first edition of The Impressario recently sold for $4,000. I think $400 for a second is therefore a bit on the cheap side whilst also being a decent offer. It's likely they'll have buyers on their database who'll buy it from them for an immediate profit.
 You could counter them, saying you have interest but would accept slightly less from them if they take other music from you. I'd be surprised if they weren't expecting a counter offer anyway

Or if you're on ebay you could try it there, setting the reserve at about $450.

Much depends on how quickly you need to move the items on, overheads etc when dealing with this type of transaction ( big profit for little outlay )
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 07:04:11 AM
I was figuring that if they offer $400 they know they can sell it for at least $800 with standard markup.  They didn't want any of the others so there is no way I would let it go for $400.  It was that store that you posted the link for.  I am going to put it on Ebay.  I sometimes put daring buy it now prices on just to see what will happen.  I figure there are not alot of these currently being offered.  Worst case is I have to relist it again with a better price.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: Ipcress on October 02, 2013, 07:13:44 AM
I was figuring that if they offer $400 they know they can sell it for at least $800 with standard markup.  They didn't want any of the others so there is no way I would let it go for $400.  It was that store that you posted the link for.  I am going to put it on Ebay.  I sometimes put daring buy it now prices on just to see what will happen.  I figure there are not alot of these currently being offered.  Worst case is I have to relist it again with a better price.

I wouldn't put a BIN price on. List it for 99 cents or whatever but place a decent reserve on it. You should have masses of interest and then the " fever " of the auction can make people pay more than they'd intended. A BIN price might result in many watchers but fewer bidders

I tell people who want to consign for auction that there are three types of buyer. The guy who wants a bargain, the guy who doesn't mind paying what somethings worth and then the big fish, the people who want it at all costs. You need the first two bidding so the third has to reach deep in his pocket !

Out of interest, how long was it before that website replied ?

Very few of these have been available for auction in recent decades. Chances are some collectors browsing Ebay will only see this once in their lifetime.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 07:20:42 AM
He replied within hours.  I'm thinking there will be some collector that will want it.  You just don't often see these.
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 02, 2013, 10:28:39 AM
You said you paid $40. for the lot ??  There is something to be said about the bird in hand !! 
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 02, 2013, 07:42:20 PM
Yup, $40 for the lot.  I have always felt that way about a bird in the hand in life.  I got an interesting message from someone who knows Mozart well and thinking I want to verify what the dealer told me to be on the safe side. Also, last year my brother turned 50 and a month after his birthday he was walking down a street and had a fatal heart attack.  Since then I have been thinking you never know what tomorrow may bring so instead of always taking the chickadee in the hand I want to reach for the peacock sometimes. 
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 02, 2013, 08:12:41 PM
When you list it give us a link so we can watch !!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 03, 2013, 05:15:07 PM
Well, I sent the pics to Harvard today.  They write back saying they wished they could help me but they don't have the resources to do this kind of thing.  Then she says she will forward it to the library just in case.  Library wrote me a few hours later and said they will be researching it.  Now I can get a level of confidence with it. ;D
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: mart on October 03, 2013, 06:50:37 PM
Waiting to hear !!!
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: bigwull on October 04, 2013, 09:16:06 AM
Yup, $40 for the lot.  I have always felt that way about a bird in the hand in life.  I got an interesting message from someone who knows Mozart well and thinking I want to verify what the dealer told me to be on the safe side. Also, last year my brother turned 50 and a month after his birthday he was walking down a street and had a fatal heart attack.  Since then I have been thinking you never know what tomorrow may bring so instead of always taking the chickadee in the hand I want to reach for the peacock sometimes. 
You have hit the nail on the head....no point being a Magpie.....cos there is no pockets in a shroud.....
Title: Re: Please help me identify this? Mozart
Post by: icedgold10 on October 04, 2013, 05:50:51 PM
And what does that mean ??? ??? ???   There is always the possibility I will just keep it.  Sometimes it is nice to have something special than to have the money.  Then someday when I have grandkids they can sell it for a $1 in a yard sale because they won't know what it is, haha.