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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: icedgold10 on October 27, 2013, 04:58:00 PM
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I picked this oil painting up today. No signature but very well done. Any idea on age , origin or value? Measure 18" x 14".
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judging by the amount of damage, to both the painting and the frame...i,d hazard a guess at the 1930,s....as for value....in this condition...without a name or a signature...$50....with a Tsunami..behind it...
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I'm thinking it may be older based on the character on it. I still think even with the fact it wasn't cared for well its beauty still shows through. Ever pick up a painting and it speaks to you some how?
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Reframed at some point, i think. Painting looks mid to late 19th.
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That is what I was thinking. Would it hurt to refurbish the frame instead? I have this pastel that was for the 19th century that was verified by Helaine Fendelman from "Country Living Magazine" that gives me the same vibe.
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From that stretcher frame around 1900 or little before !! Damage puts its value low !! When I first looked I thought it looked similar to some from the Hudson River School of artists !! But I enlarged it and don`t think it has the style even though the feel is somewhat similar !! Do the figures have western hats on ?? Looked a bit like it but with all the damage,, its hard to tell !!
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It does look like possibly western hat. Sadly it was not stored well. I still think it is very nice and once I work on the frame it will look better. That being said old paint does tend to crack. I saw an auction piece once that was extremely old and had a ton of cracking. It fetched $5,000. Interesting how high it went. I was out of it way before it reached that. lol
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The cracking is to be expected !! Parts looked like something scraped against it !! If you have a little bit of olive oil sometimes a light coat will bring up the color and make the scratches less noticeable !! Clean it first though !! Then just put a few drops of olive oil on a soft cloth and work it in a circular motion over the front !! Just enough oil that you can tell its there,, no excess !! Don`t use the it on bare canvas though !! Its just to use over the painted areas !!
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Are you sure it is done on canvas? ??? ???
Take it out of the frame ............. and uh look for a signature.
And while ya got er out ......... you can repair the frame.
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It actually seems like some kind of cloth. I have been slowly cleaning it and amazing what beautiful color and detail is coming through. I was researching the Hudson River School that Mart mentioned. One of the artist often didn't sign his work so I have not given up hope on that yet. May just be my dreamer side though. lol No signature that I have found yet.
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some kind of cloth?....what is canvas ..if it is,nt cloth..there are various type,s of canvas...cotton,polyester..to name 2...but there are more, my home town of Dundee in Scotland....was once the centre of the world production for supplying canvas Tarpaulins...they were made from jute, or flax..then dipped in liquid china clay....
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I guess I mean not like the canvas I see today which is more mass produced looking and feeling. Not modern type.
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That's because old canvas wasn`t treated with gesso like todays are !! They did their own,,canvas was just that,,canvas !! More like a twill !!
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It actually seems like some kind of cloth.
I just raised the question because I don't recall seeing very many frames with a wood panel (backer board) "insert" placed tight against the canvas.
But on closer inspection it appears the edge of the canvas can be seen between the inside edge of the picture frame and the outside edge of the stretcher frame.
Given the chance that backpanel insert was added when the picture was framed ...... there just might be a signaturre on the back of the canvas. ??? >:(
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You don't clean all the artwork you have, do you ?
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I bet she does....she comes across...as spic & spanner....you only have to look at her avatar...to see that.... ;D
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Sadly, I do clean all my art work.
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Oh Well!!....cleanings fine....just don,t be too heavy handed with the scrubbing brush...and the Domestos.... ;D
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You don't clean all the artwork you have, do you ?
This one sure needed it !! Grit and grime does more damage to artwork than anything !! It wears at the surface of a painting !!
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as long as she,s no using this she,ll be ok ;D
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I wrote to this Art Expert place in New York and sent a picture of the painting. I asked if it could be the work of Thomas Doughty of the Hudson River School. This is his response:
Dear Robyn,
We authenticated a Doughty that had similarities in how the landscape looked. As much as I can tell from the photo you provided it looks as if indeed it could be his work.
Yours sincerely,
for Art Experts
Mark Winter
Authentication Expert
Licensed appraiser
USPAP certified
Ex-Sothebys.com Associate
Member
Unione Europea Esperti d'Arte (European Art Experts)
New England Appraisers Association
Catalogue Raisonné Scholars Association
International Institute for Conservation
Artwork examinations By appointment ONLY
Art Experts
234 East 60th Street
New York, NY 10022
Mailing and shipping address:
Art Experts
575 Lexington Avenue. 4th floor
New York, NY 10022
Phones: (212) 203-7833
Email info@artexpertswebsite.com
Website: www.artexpertswebsi te.com
Authentications
Attributions
Certificates of authenticity
Appraisals. Valuations
Provenance research and reconstruction
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I guess that's a good thing for you !! I had all but discounted the Hudson River School artists because there was so much I couldn`t see because of the scrapes when I enlarged it !! Glad to know it could be one of the artists !!
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well done you....does this mean you can have it professionally restored....or are you just goung to DIY,it...
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I will leave it to the pros if it is authenticated. Another person just emailed me from that place asking to research it. Waiting to find out the price for the research.
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I will leave it to the pros if it is authenticated. Another person just emailed me from that place asking to research it. Waiting to find out the price for the research.
..Let me get my head around this.....you get an email...from a researcher...asking you if they can research this painting....but you have to pay for this...just as well its not my painting....or else they,d be told to take a hike......
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I asked how much it would be , she never brought up charging, she hasn't responded yet. I like to get a handle on who these people are more. If it requires payment for research it is not going to happen because I know I can get it done free. The man that sent me the email responce sent my information to her. Here in the U. S. you have to be very careful who you deal with. I have also sent pictures to my local museum.
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http://www.pbs.org/wnet/ihas/icon/hudson.html
A very wise move Icedgold10 !!! Historically speaking this should be worth researching for free !! Its a feather in any researchers cap to authenticate one of the early paintings from this movement !! And don`t let it go anywhere !!
This movement in American art produced the nations premier landscape painters most of which are hanging in museums !!
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Must say the brush strokes don't look fine enough for Doughty, more in keeping with something like this - a " sketch " piece by Sanford Robinson Gifford
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1432710 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/1432710)
who was apparently influenced by Doughty.
The figures are naive or ' crude '. There's also very little to no definition in the far landscape and yet Doughty appears to have been quite meticulous, painting exactly what he saw. No impressionism here.
so in conclusion i think it's either a sketch piece, someone less talented from the same period or a follower of Doughty.
I just wish you hadn't cleaned it. That lower left section looks almost varnished !
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Many artists did varnish their work !! Was a common practice !!
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It was “fashionable” at the time to invite artists to “spend the summer” at those camps, lodges and estates ….. up along the Hudson River, in the Catskills, the Mohawk Valley, Trenton Falls, and the Adirondacks in upstate N Y.
So, there are a lot of paintings out there …… by a lot of different artists …… and one never knows when the “next one” will show up in a garage sale, estate sale, a closet, a basement, a barn or an attic.
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I asked how much it would be , she never brought up charging, she hasn't responded yet. I like to get a handle on who these people are more. If it requires payment for research it is not going to happen because I know I can get it done free. The man that sent me the email responce sent my information to her. Here in the U. S. you have to be very careful who you deal with. I have also sent pictures to my local museum.
you,ve got your noggin screwed on the right way....but you paint a very dull picture of the way things are over there...i,m glad i,m here and you,re there...
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Many artists did varnish their work !! Was a common practice !!
My point is, Mart, that it appears to have been varnished recently. Dealers and collectors generally hate that appearance on antique paintings. Bit like silver, though not as bad.
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Which pic are you talking about ?? Is there one that I have missed cause I didn`t notice anything ??
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So she writes me back and says for a quick search it is $150. Granted that is how they make money but can't deal with that kind because you have to make sure your not purchasing a certificate and they have no clue what it is. It could turn out to be an artist like Icpress said but that wouldn't be totally bad looking at the price they got for it. I think the museum may send me the right direction with it.
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The right people will appraise this free of charge.
Are you thinking of selling or keeping it ?
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Nice little painting , icedgold10 .
Does have the appearance of an American work , but also possibly Euro in style/origin ... def a hands-on inspection piece !
Despite all the wear & tear on it , looks like a keeper (esp. if ya like it) !
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Depending on value I will sell it. If it has less value I would just keep it and enjoy it. As they say most everything has a price that would prompt its sale. I actually like the painting. The artist I hope it is by actually did work in my area so it is possible that it would end up staying around here. Although, don't want it in the hands of that man who was mistreating it and all his other paintings. Just sad to see people tossing art around.
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So Christies suggested that I take it to http://www.bonhams.com/ saying it didn't meet their price focus. This place looks pretty high end too but is it worth it to go there or should I just sell on my own?
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Bonhams is a pretty highly regarded auction but it depends on what the painting is valued at !! You might see what their estimate would be on it !!
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I'll send pictures to them and get their opinion. The pics have been at Christies for several weeks. Good thing is they suggested the other place instead of a flat refusal on this one. Usually that is what they do.
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My opinion is if less than 2 grand,, do it yourself !! Wait till you see what the local museum says !! You did say you contacted someone locally didn`t you !! Many times a good gallery will help with sales of known artists !!
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Still waiting on the local people. I'm learning about being patient in life.
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I am very impatient,,!! I hate to wait !!