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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: icedgold10 on November 02, 2013, 11:16:43 AM

Title: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 02, 2013, 11:16:43 AM
Picked this up today at an estate sale.  I'm thinking possibly civil war but not sure.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: frogpatch on November 02, 2013, 12:57:35 PM
Can you give us the measurements? It does not look like a Civil War Colt from what I have seen but I am nowhere near being an expert. We do have an arms expert who comes here. It was apparently excavated somewhere. It may have been from a battlefield somewhere or someone trying to hide a weapon from a crime. Guns were rarely lost or tossed out for lack of use. I saw a show where a western gun was stashed in a small cave and someone found it. It was in the same condition as that one. It turned out to be from the 1880s. 
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 02:16:37 PM
Didn`t match any of the Colt revolvers from that period that I could find !!  Guess its it too bad a condition to be able to see a name or numbers ??
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 02, 2013, 02:35:10 PM
It is 8" long not including the handle.  I guess it is called a barrel?
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 04:08:26 PM
The entire barrel is 8 in. ???  That's more like a 38 cal. instead of 45 cal. !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: Rauville on November 02, 2013, 06:38:22 PM
Hard to tell, but looks like maybe a Iver Johnson or Harrington Richardson top-break double action. There were several versions made from the 1890's onward.
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10495709 (http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10495709)

(Iver Johnson produced their 5 shot top-break "Safety Automatic"* revolver up until 1941.)

* "Safety Automatic" was used only to describe the safety features...it was still a revolver in function.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 02, 2013, 06:57:28 PM
A friend of my son's just stopped by that knows a little about guns.  He opened it and there are bullets in it that say western  38 S&W.  What would a gun like this be used for?
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 02, 2013, 07:31:35 PM
That's a 38 cal. made on an old look western frame !!  I thought it was a 38 !! You can also buy a 22 cal. on a 45 frame !! It just gives a pistol an old look but for modern ammo !! Fairly new gun !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 02, 2013, 07:56:37 PM
What do you mean fairly new?  I don't think it is that new. 
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: cogar on November 03, 2013, 03:45:20 AM
This might be what you have.
 
64. Smith & Wesson “Double Action” ser.# 80817. Antique second model .38 S&W top break revolver made before 1885. 5 shot cylinder has a double set of stop notches.

(http://www.horstauction.com/June%20'13%20Gun%20Sale/064.JPG)
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 03, 2013, 05:02:57 AM
That looks like it.  I just found out you can't list these things on Ebay.  They pulled my listing.  Where do I sell this type item?
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: Ipcress on November 03, 2013, 05:11:13 AM
Rivets near the barrel are in different positions but very similar Cogar !
Actually placed more like 65, although the gun itself is much more like 64
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: Rauville on November 03, 2013, 09:25:03 AM
I bet someone took the hammer and mainspring out of Grandpa's old pistol, filled it with empty shell casings and gave it to the kids to play with. Even during my childhood it was somewhat common to give a "broken gun" a second life in that manner.
That being said; you will probably have to find a "relic collector" to appreciate it enough to buy it. And the value will be low enough it may not be worth the effort to find a internet venue to accomplish that. :'( Try your local gun shop.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 03, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
Does it actually say "Western" 38 S&W " ??
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: KC on November 03, 2013, 12:01:28 PM
So, let me get this straight...you bought it...and someone opened it up and it was loaded????????  Wow!!!  That is truly insane (even for us in Texas!)

Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 03, 2013, 12:27:46 PM
I am curious about that too KC !! Unless it is just the casings as Rauville said !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: Rauville on November 03, 2013, 12:44:34 PM
I am curious about that too KC !! Unless it is just the casings as Rauville said !!

Yes...just looking at the photo of the pistol broke open you can see that each of the cartridges have a visible dent in the primer. They are "empty / spent" shell casings that shouldn't cause any anxiety.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 03, 2013, 01:34:38 PM
Glad someone has good eyes !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: bigwull on November 03, 2013, 01:49:21 PM
A friend of my son's just stopped by that knows a little about guns.  He opened it and there are bullets in it that say western  38 S&W.  What would a gun like this be used for?
I would have thought that was obvious...Killing people...
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 03, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
Just to ease some minds my son is almost 25 years-old and his friend is the same age and was in the service so he has handled guns before.  I wouldn't let children handle it.  They are empty shells though.  Without the hammer I don't think they can do too much, I may be wrong though.  Bigwul I know they can kill people but the can be used for target ect.... there are target sports.  Not always used for bad.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 03, 2013, 02:23:22 PM
For years the 38 cal. was the common weapon carried by law enforcement !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 03, 2013, 02:28:29 PM
Around 1910 law enforcement used it a lot.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: Rauville on November 03, 2013, 03:20:10 PM
For years the 38 cal. was the common weapon carried by law enforcement !!

Ammunition can be confusing, as there were always improvements being marketed over the years.
Just remember that:
.38 is a caliber which includes an entire group of cartridges, including:

.38 S&W, which is a cartridge dating back to the black powder era. Used in break-top revolvers, among others.
.38 S&W Special, which is a much more powerful cartridge that became a popular choice for police.

To illustrate the difference between the two:
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c125/ispcapt/guns/SPLSW.jpg)
.38 Special on the left, and .38 S&W on the right 
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: KC on November 03, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
Didn't even occur to think what age your son was...just the fact bullets were inside!  But, then I was shooting guns years before I was old enough to drive.  Living in the country you are taught young!!!

Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 03, 2013, 05:08:41 PM
I am afraid we were raised a bit different from many here !! Guns were a part of life and a necessity for us !!
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: icedgold10 on November 03, 2013, 09:13:10 PM
I know in some upper parts of Maine kids are raised with guns for hunting.  In my area sadly they are mostly used for criminal purposes.  We have a big drug problem in this area and guns have played a major part in it.  I know in other states kids are brought up with guns and taught respect for them.  Here is not the case.  Way to many accidents with guns and children because people don't teach or lock them up.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: cogar on November 04, 2013, 04:54:13 AM
A friend of my son's just stopped by that knows a little about guns.  He opened it and there are bullets in it that say western  38 S&W.  What would a gun like this be used for?
I would have thought that was obvious...Killing people...

Found in the dirt, ...... 5 empty cartridges, ....... must be someone was the loser in a running gun fight. ;D ;D

T'is no other reason for empty casings to still be in the chamber.
Title: Re: Antique Pistol ?????
Post by: mart on November 04, 2013, 09:07:38 AM
I am afraid that locking them up/failing to teach is the reason for many accidental shootings !! And the main reason is "I didn`t know it was loaded" !! More people have been killed with "unloaded guns" than loaded ones !!  Here kids know that if they pick a gun up,,its loaded !! No question about it,, !!  There are probably 15 here in my house and all are loaded !! As to locking them up,,kids are naturally curious and when you tell them not to do something or if you keep an item in mystery,,thats the first thing they are going to go for !!
 I shot my first gun at age 4,, with a little parental help,, an old long tom goose gun,,!!  Sent me and my dad rolling !! Not something you want to repeat when young !!