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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: rayhs1984 on November 17, 2013, 01:42:52 PM
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I have looked everywhere I can think of to find info and can't find the proof mark yet. Info with it claims that it is from Austria and dates to approximately 1810 punch of pics here : http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV last pic is a closup of the only marks on it.
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That link will not come up !! Can you post your pics here please ??
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for you Mart..including you.re much requested bottom... ;D..it looks to have had a hard life, and that lid will certainly detract its value..
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Bigwull to the rescue !! Thanks Wullie !!
Can`t see the mark if there is one on the bottom !! What came with it that gives this information ??
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another pic
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here is the mark on the bottom My brother is the one with the item, he bought it at a auction and when he got home his wife found a piece of paper inside that said "Austria around 1810"
(http://i.imgur.com/La9h1JC.jpg)
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The last one is not showing either !!
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Sorry . . . I'm new to this site. I can see it, don't know why it wont let you see it.
maybe try this https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/1460195_10201706152369033_1871568714_n.jpg?oh=a008147d11dbde1683961246a20136bf&oe=528AC78A
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Had his wife found the piece of paper,and it said....Made in Tmbuktoo...would your brother have believed it...and as for this mark...i see the piece of paper..but the writing is indistinct......... .......I once had a violin that had a label inside.saying it was a Stradivarious...... . ;D
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The shape is bugging me for being 1800's. Problem really is in the condition of it. It would be a hard sell for much $$$.
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"and as for this mark...i see the piece of paper..but the writing is indistinct"
That isn't on paper that is written into the the bottom of the pot . . . what is there to not understand? I am just asking if anyone recognizes the proof mark.
That pic of the mark is basically the only important thing about this entire post and is the key to identifying this piece yet you seem to be ignoring it. If you don't know that is fine, but there is no reason to be rude.
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I'm wondering if the round part of the mark is actually a stilt mark from the firing process. I was involved in a ceramic business for a while and that is what it looks like to me. That being said maybe the focus should be on the other two marks.
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"and as for this mark...i see the piece of paper..but the writing is indistinct"
That isn't on paper that is written into the the bottom of the pot . . . what is there to not understand? I am just asking if anyone recognizes the proof mark.
That pic of the mark is basically the only important thing about this entire post and is the key to identifying this piece yet you seem to be ignoring it. If you don't know that is fine, but there is no reason to be rude.
Rude...how dare you...you come on here, post a link to pics that some members can,t open...i take the time to do your job for you,then you post a scrap of paper and expect results..... >:(
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That is not a proof/makers mark !! They are most likely flaws in the mold !! The circular one sure is and the straight mark on the other side !! Only thing I can see that might not be a flaw is a possible F by the circular mark and that could be a decoraters mark !! They were really pretty exacting with all company marks !! There were some that had no mark at all but tracking one of those is all but impossible !!
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I didn't post a scrap of paper. why do you keep saying that?
I posted marks from the bottom of the piece. I have posted 6 pics including the only markings it has. I don't know what else you want. I'm sorry it isn't easy to solve, but if it was I'd have found it out myself.
As for the links, they open for me how am I suppose to know that they won't open for other people?
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There is no makers/proof mark on the bottom !!
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I guess this isn't solvable then
Thanks for the effort. I'll try to find something with more information next time.
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https://www.google.com/#q=austrian+pottery+and+porcelain+marks
There are several lists of Austrian porcelain and pottery marks on this page,, and another good site to search is www.porcelainmarksa ndmore.com !! Might give you an idea what the backstamps look like for your future buys !! When all you have is a pattern that may or may not be Austrian with no backstamp,,searching all the possibilities could take years !!
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Am I seeing the pictures correctly...
The teapot lid is cracked in two places? That unfortunately devalues it.
Like Mart said, there isn't a makers mark on the bottom and the sources she referenced for you are grand.
I am sorry but I can't enlarge the picture on the pot enough to help you out. Can you please take a better close up and report and/or describe it?
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I guess this isn't solvable then
Thanks for the effort. I'll try to find something with more information next time.
No need for the sarcasm...what you have to understand is...even in this day and age..not everyone has superfast broadband...there are still some of us who have the old fashioned slow dial up,....furthermore,this piece of paper that was found in the pot...what you have to ask yourself,..why was it put there,....
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"and as for this mark...i see the piece of paper..but the writing is indistinct"
That isn't on paper that is written into the the bottom of the pot . . . what is there to not understand? I am just asking if anyone recognizes the proof mark.
That pic of the mark is basically the only important thing about this entire post and is the key to identifying this piece yet you seem to be ignoring it. If you don't know that is fine, but there is no reason to be rude.
Is there another landscape on the opposite side ?
There are some English teapots that have this style of handle from a similar period. Any chance of an image of the base at an angle in good light ?
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Is there another landscape on the opposite side ?
There are some English teapots that have this style of handle from a similar period. Any chance of an image of the base at an angle in good light ?
The other side also has a landscape yes (http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
let me know if this link works now http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV (http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV)
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Is there another landscape on the opposite side ?
There are some English teapots that have this style of handle from a similar period. Any chance of an image of the base at an angle in good light ?
The other side also has a landscape yes (http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
let me know if this link works now http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV (http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV)
???....what part of "not everyone has superfast broadband" did you not grasp...to open links with dial up...is a No.No...it takes forever...and as you have posted 1 pic of this pot...why not post them all...
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people said the pics weren't working, but here you go
(http://i.imgur.com/EYEA9VW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e0jizIV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ujITZ19.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2jIOVrM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/duMfNgt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/La9h1JC.jpg)
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people said the pics weren't working, but here you go
(http://i.imgur.com/EYEA9VW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/e0jizIV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ujITZ19.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2jIOVrM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/duMfNgt.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/La9h1JC.jpg)
No one on here said the pics were,nt working...they said they could,nt open the link..because...... ....they still operate on DIAL UP...thats D I A L ..UP....= very slow,
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Is there another landscape on the opposite side ?
There are some English teapots that have this style of handle from a similar period. Any chance of an image of the base at an angle in good light ?
The other side also has a landscape yes (http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
let me know if this link works now http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV (http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV)
Thanks ! Not convinced it's Austrian but would need to handle it to get a better idea. Seen similar English ones before.
And you'll have to excuse Wullie's " overzealous " nature sometimes ;)
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here you....less of the overzealous....spad es are spades where i come from... :D
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Is there another landscape on the opposite side ?
There are some English teapots that have this style of handle from a similar period. Any chance of an image of the base at an angle in good light ?
The other side also has a landscape yes (http://i.imgur.com/TTZQo0a.jpg)
let me know if this link works now http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV (http://imgur.com/a/UBDjm#e0jizIV)
Thanks ! Not convinced it's Austrian but would need to handle it to get a better idea. Seen similar English ones before.
And you'll have to excuse Wullie's " overzealous " nature sometimes ;)
I am beginning to think that you are right it came with some others that have been since IDed (a Clews, a Spode Copeland's and some unmarked pieces). Have received a offer from a English Ebayer on this piece for $50 which is more than the 6 pieces combined cost.
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Hmmmm...not a bad price considering they have to pay for shipping. Would hold out for a touch more though ( pity about the cover )
I've also seen English pieces marked like that to the base when there's a firing crack. The crack is marked, the piece is not stamped with the factory mark or it's marked as a second ( a scratch through the trademark ) if that's already been put on.
Also think it's more common for English pieces to be unmarked.
Someone earlier questioned the date. Well i think the following link might be helpful. Click below and zoom on the image. Note the spout and handle - very similar to this piece. Berlin porcelain though is generally even finer and lighter than yours.
http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/5000038/tea-and-coffee-service (http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/5000038/tea-and-coffee-service)
Also this Dresden piece
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8614395 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8614395)
If you're interested in identifying pieces in future, it would help to read up about hard / soft paste porcelain and it's history in Europe and the UK. Would only take an hour to get an idea.
Marks aren't everything.
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Excellent post Icpress! That demonstrates time period very well.
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Hmmmm...not a bad price considering they have to pay for shipping. Would hold out for a touch more though ( pity about the cover )
I've also seen English pieces marked like that to the base when there's a firing crack. The crack is marked, the piece is not stamped with the factory mark or it's marked as a second ( a scratch through the trademark ) if that's already been put on.
Also think it's more common for English pieces to be unmarked.
Someone earlier questioned the date. Well i think the following link might be helpful. Click below and zoom on the image. Note the spout and handle - very similar to this piece. Berlin porcelain though is generally even finer and lighter than yours.
http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/5000038/tea-and-coffee-service (http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/5000038/tea-and-coffee-service)
Also this Dresden piece
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8614395 (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/8614395)
If you're interested in identifying pieces in future, it would help to read up about hard / soft paste porcelain and it's history in Europe and the UK. Would only take an hour to get an idea.
Marks aren't everything.
Thank you so much, I've looked at lot of teapots on-line and it's been so hard to find ones with a similar handle and you found 2. It's good to have some information to nail down the date so I can know what it actually is. As for price the offer was actually $75 with $25 assumed for shipping, there were 6 teapots that went for a combined $30. 2 had makers marks one had a factory #, 2 were unmarked and then this one that had the paper inside.
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Great resource Ipcress!
Also, over the years I have found that cups and saucers go along with many of the styles of teapot! These links are very helpful in helping to give a time period for the truly vintage/antique items (not the repros)! The person who put this all together based it on demitasse sets.
Cups/Saucer Styles http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/cup-handle-shapes-styles.html (http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/cup-handle-shapes-styles.html)
Saucer & Plate Shapes, Styles & Designs http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/saucer-plate-shapes-styles-designs.html (http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/saucer-plate-shapes-styles-designs.html)
Cup Handle Shapes & Styles http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/cup-handle-shapes-styles.html (http://demiq-demitasse-cups-saucers.blogspot.com/2011/04/cup-handle-shapes-styles.html)
Also, recommend you get a good book on handle styles! Such as the ones listed on this site (and usually get the most recent book as the second one here!) http://teawithfriends.blogspot.com/2008/04/getting-handle-on-teacup-collecting_9717.html (http://teawithfriends.blogspot.com/2008/04/getting-handle-on-teacup-collecting_9717.html)
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I do not think this is Austrian or English I think it was made in Japan, Style of trees, bridge , Pagoda, and the rounded mark indent in the base looks similar to some old Nippon flowers they used to mark pieces with. Not to mention the very flat top. Try searching within those ideas. :)
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It's not Jap. Style is wrong, as is the porcelain. Noritake made some similar in style in the early 20th but again they looked different and the porcelain was different.
Oriental gardens were quite common in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries.
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It's not Jap. Style is wrong, as is the porcelain. Noritake made some similar in style in the early 20th but again they looked different and the porcelain was different.
Oriental gardens were quite common in Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries.
there still quite common today....there,s a Chinese takeaway around the corner...and its called Oriental Garden.... ;)
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Ha Ha Wullie! :/
This style has been popular for a long time and like Ipcress stated was popular in Europe and England.
I am leaning towards a reproduction piece...BUT with that said....possibly from 1940's. Seems that most people hear reproduction and think they aren't worth anything. Granted this isn't worth zillions...but it is an older pot that has had some use (notice wear to handle) and cracked lid. I would garner this was a mass produced peace.
Can't tell from the picture of the scene...but it looks more like a decal than hand painted???!!!!
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Confident it's 19th.