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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: sreyomac on March 23, 2014, 08:17:34 AM

Title: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 23, 2014, 08:17:34 AM
Hey y'all, long time no hear....  ::)

Here are some things that were found buried in a hole on the old Camp Fannin Military base. It was an infantry Replacement Training Center and POW Camp during WWII, located near my mom's house.  We can identify the grenade clips and pins, and the ammo clip on a stripper clip. What can you guys tell me about the rest.

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175103_zps32c06dac.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175103_zps32c06dac.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175746_zps89eebc7f.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175746_zps89eebc7f.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175728_zpsa1e5839c.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175728_zpsa1e5839c.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175642_zps5942b92d.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175642_zps5942b92d.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175618_zps842c595c.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175618_zps842c595c.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175548_zpse8b8887a.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175548_zpse8b8887a.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175344_zps34211ed3.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175344_zps34211ed3.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175331_zpse017c3ce.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175331_zpse017c3ce.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175314_zps0d6567b7.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175314_zps0d6567b7.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175304_zps4df4505c.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175304_zps4df4505c.jpg.html)

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/sreyomac/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175246_zpse8af73d7.jpg) (http://s141.photobucket.com/user/sreyomac/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140322_175246_zpse8af73d7.jpg.html)

I love things with history!!!! XOXO

Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 23, 2014, 09:28:33 AM
That wouldn`t happen to be in Texas would it ??  Near the town of Leonard or Farmersville ??
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 23, 2014, 09:34:44 AM
That wouldn`t happen to be in Texas would it ??  Near the town of Leonard or Farmersville ??

Near Tyler
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 23, 2014, 09:48:28 AM
Mmmm,, I assumed Fannin county !! Will have to look that one up !!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 23, 2014, 11:25:00 AM
Mart, Your neck of the woods and my sons!  Just looked it up and part of it is now the current UT Health Center at Tyler!  Just a note syremoc "The abandoned base became the East Texas State Tuberculosis Sanatorium the following year" after it was closed!

If I am correct, this wasn't just a Army base/training camp...at one time there were POW's there!  Going to Wash DC today for my brothers retirements ceremonies this week (Dean of the National War College/National Defense University on the Potomac). Dinner at Mount Vernon..a fun historical week!

He's a big history buff.  I'll see if he can tell me more about this!

I'm sure a few will be popping in here within the next few days that can help you on these!  :)
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: fancypants on March 23, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
Well , sreyomac , you may have some very dangerous Army ordnance on your hands , esp. since it's old & in rough shape !!!!!

Sure looks like 22mm M1 (WW2 rifle) - launched grenades .

Other stuff looks related to the same 'applications' !

If they're not 'dummy' grenades , it's a job for your local Police Bomb Squad (ASAP , if you're askin' me !!!!!!!!!!)!

ASAP!!!

I for one would not like to loose you as a member here , sreyomac ! :o
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 23, 2014, 07:34:35 PM
Since it was a training camp could well be live !! I would not touch them till they could be checked !! The camp was only operating for 4 years starting in 1943 so the age can be pretty well determined !!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 24, 2014, 07:55:34 PM
At my brothers and he TOTALLY AGREES!!!!  BE VERY CAREFUL.  If these were duds and didn't fire back then they still may have active explosive ordnance in them!!!!!!!  They would be very unstable due to age!!!!!!

You have RIFLE GRENADE THERE!!!!!!! BEEEEEEEE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!

You have parts of grenades
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/MkII_07.JPG/250px-MkII_07.JPG)

The first picture looks like a US GI Springfield 1903A3 five round stripper clips.
(https://northridgeinc.com/productImages/600x600/03-107__300.jpg)

Can you clean up the piece in the 3rd picture - looks like there is some writing on the side of it!  Could have been the tail fin section of a mortar.

Looks like the end carp of a mortar on pic 4.

The words WITHIN in bold were used for CAUTION this was possible a sign.

Picture 6 & 7 are for the Mark II Grenade - Picture is most likely the safety pin and 7 are the safety levers.
(http://previewcf.turbosquid.com/Preview/2012/10/18__06_20_27/Product_parts_info.jpge1677631-fe3b-4bfe-add5-20243e0da89eLarge.jpg)





Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 24, 2014, 08:02:51 PM
Pictures 8 & 9 need better pics.  Can you please give dimensions?

Picture 10  Rifle Grenade Launchers
(http://90thidpg.us/Equipment/Projects/1903Launcher/images/IMG_6215low.jpg)

Back to the first picture - the item at bottom left side of photo is the base of US WWII M1-Garand Rifle Grenade Adapter (http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/6388161353/11299465/9de9eb669695262f5e0dc84f7b3437d8.jpg)


Some more information on Camp Fannin!
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qbc11 (http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qbc11)

Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: greenacres on March 24, 2014, 08:35:44 PM
Scary,  you could have reall5 gotten hurt just digging.
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: fancypants on March 24, 2014, 11:32:25 PM
I believe that the 'stripper' clip may also be unfired/exploded ordnance as well , as they sure do look like the 'special' type of rounds that were used for helping send the projectiles on their way (to kill people &/or blow stuff up) .
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: frogpatch on March 25, 2014, 12:47:20 PM
It takes a big pair to dig in a place like that. Whats next an old mine field? Your lucky you did not lose that pair and a few other parts. I will stick to digging for bottles.
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 25, 2014, 02:42:08 PM
My brother said they stopped using most of these items before he got into infantry.  He cannot stress enough...BEWARE and BE CAREFUL!!!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 25, 2014, 07:25:07 PM
If it were me I would call the local bomb squad and not touch these things till they were cleared by them !!  Arms and legs are not easy to replace !!  Not to mention the rest of you and anyone else within reasonable distance when these explode !!
Come to think of it,, sreyomac hasn`t been back since these were posted,,,hope nothing happened !! You would think there would be a warning posted if there was a possibility of live ordnance !!  Even if old stuff !!  He said it was near his mothers house !!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 25, 2014, 07:47:26 PM
Well , sreyomac , you may have some very dangerous Army ordnance on your hands , esp. since it's old & in rough shape !!!!!

Sure looks like 22mm M1 (WW2 rifle) - launched grenades .

Other stuff looks related to the same 'applications' !

If they're not 'dummy' grenades , it's a job for your local Police Bomb Squad (ASAP , if you're askin' me !!!!!!!!!!)!

ASAP!!!

I for one would not like to loose you as a member here , sreyomac ! :o

Fancypants, don't worry, I'm here to stay! ;)


I believe that the 'stripper' clip may also be unfired/exploded ordnance as well , as they sure do look like the 'special' type of rounds that were used for helping send the projectiles on their way (to kill people &/or blow stuff up) .

And those are just casings.

Pictures 8 & 9 need better pics.  Can you please give dimensions?

Picture 10  Rifle Grenade Launchers
(http://90thidpg.us/Equipment/Projects/1903Launcher/images/IMG_6215low.jpg)

Back to the first picture - the item at bottom left side of photo is the base of US WWII M1-Garand Rifle Grenade Adapter (http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/6388161353/11299465/9de9eb669695262f5e0dc84f7b3437d8.jpg)


Some more information on Camp Fannin!
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qbc11 (http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/qbc11)



KC, ty for all your info. Very helpful. I have been to that site, its a good one. I love knowing about the history from where I from. :) And I have passed the precautions along....


It takes a big pair to dig in a place like that. Whats next an old mine field? Your lucky you did not lose that pair and a few other parts. I will stick to digging for bottles.

Frogpatch your snarky post makes me take offence.... I never said I was digging..... this is a commercial and residential area, so no mind field for me.  It was raked over and out popped something.... we just uncovered it.... we didn't know what was in there. I'm sure you would have investigated it further if you were in the same situation. But you just stick to your bottles.... no one is stoppin' ya.  :-X ::) ;)

If it were me I would call the local bomb squad and not touch these things till they were cleared by them !!  Arms and legs are not easy to replace !!  Not to mention the rest of you and anyone else within reasonable distance when these explode !!
Come to think of it,, sreyomac hasn`t been back since these were posted,,,hope nothing happened !! You would think there would be a warning posted if there was a possibility of live ordnance !!  Even if old stuff !!  He said it was near his mothers house !!

Im here mart.... thanks for your concern. And I'm a woman.... lol  ;D :D  8)
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 25, 2014, 08:53:44 PM
Yep, I would have investigated further too but know that even tho they tried to leave these places as "safe" as possible...that isn't always the case. 

Just search "unexploded ornance at closed military bases" and there are lots of articles about it.  Unfortunately it happens.

I live in Texas, but go to Hawaii often and places that we have hiked in over the years now have new warnings for UXO's (unexploded ordnances).  Just last month new signs showed up in an area on Maui!  In fact the whole doggone island of Kaho'olawe is still uninhabitable today because it was used for testing bombs and sort of munitions.  There are so many UXO's that they cannot declare the island safe.  They have gone in so many times to try and clean it up and find that it isn't possible.  Even on the Big Island and other islands they still show up. 

So, do be aware that ANY PLACE THAT THEY USED TO PRACTICE has potential for having UXO's!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 26, 2014, 09:37:35 AM
LOL  Well, I am thankful for that !!  We were worried !!  Frogpatch`s comments were not intended as snarky !! That's what guys say to other guys about being brave enough to do something!! (we don`t always figure out if a person is male or female easily,,some are still after all these years referring to me as "he")
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 26, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
LOL  Well, I am thankful for that !!  We were worried !!  Frogpatch`s comments were not intended as snarky !! That's what guys say to other guys about being brave enough to do something!! (we don`t always figure out if a person is male or female easily,,some are still after all these years referring to me as "he")

No worries needed.  ;D And it wasn't that comment that struck me wrong. It is that they implied I didn't have sense enough to not dig in a mine field....  ::) .... But there are no hard feelings, I just wanted to say that and I haven't given it another thought. :) And I thought u were male, too. lol. It is hard to know.....  :) ;) ;D 8) :-X

Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 26, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
LOL !!  It is indeed !!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 26, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
LOL  Now 3 gals from Texas on the site!  Can they handle it Mart?  LOL
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 27, 2014, 09:32:44 AM
LOL  Not if we get going all at once !! They have no chance !!
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 27, 2014, 08:55:48 PM
LOL  Not if we get going all at once !! They have no chance !!
LOL  Now 3 gals from Texas on the site!  Can they handle it Mart?  LOL

Well let's get going then!!!! lol  8)

MArt and KC, what part of Texas are you ladies from.... as you may of figured out, I'm from East Texas.... almost as far east as you can go....  :)


KC, in pic 9, the diameter is 3 inches.... I would like the think that 9 fits in 8, but it wont go. Not sure if its from the rust or that they just don't go together. 8 is very reminiscent of a gauge casing or something like that.....
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: cogar on March 28, 2014, 04:49:16 AM
It is that they implied I didn't have sense enough to not dig in a mine field....  ::)

Well, someone dug them out of the ground, didn't they.

And someone carried them to where they could take pictures of them, didn't they.

One Labor Day we went to a huge “sale” at Jane Lew, WV, where there were dozens n’ dozens of garage sales and vendors set up selling their “goodies” with several thousand people running helter skelter throughout the town trying to find a “goody” to buy.

We were at this one residence that was having an “estate garage sale”, for lack of a better description, where the “kids” were selling their deceased father’s possessions from the house, outbuildings, etc., and had like 10 to 15 tables stacked full of “goodies” with people elbow to elbow a digging and a scratching to find a “prize” that suited their fancy.

Violet and I were doing likewise when somewhere behind us bout 30 to 40 feet there was this …. “KABOOM” …. that was loud enough to make me “duck for cover” while the gawkers just turned their heads to see what happen. Ya know, like they were at a “turkey shoot” ….. and they were the turkey ….. a “bopping” its head up to get shot at.

Well now, there was this “nosey” 16 or so year old boy, wearing one of those thin nylon jackets, who picked up a “flash” grenade off one of those tables or out of a box on the ground …… and pulled the “pin” ….. and then apparently laid it back down from where he had picked it up. Well now, lucky it didn’t kill him or seriously hurt him ……. but it burned/melted that nylon jacket right off the front of him, etc., etc.   

Betcha he learned not to do that again. Like Violet sometimes says, …. “If you wont listen, ….. then you will just havta feel”.
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: KC on March 28, 2014, 06:45:51 AM
Wow cogar...what a sale!  When I see those items at sales i walk the other way because there WILL be someone that WILL be curious!

 sreyomac, I am 10 mins west of DFW Airport directly between Dallas and Ft Worth!  My youngest son lives in Hawkins, your neck of the woods, and my eldest son lives in Shreveport, LA...so we have you surrounded!  :)
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: sreyomac on March 28, 2014, 08:38:47 AM
It is that they implied I didn't have sense enough to not dig in a mine field....  ::)

Well, someone dug them out of the ground, didn't they.

And someone carried them to where they could take pictures of them, didn't they.
 
One Labor Day we went to a huge “sale” at Jane Lew, WV, where there were dozens n’ dozens of garage sales and vendors set up selling their “goodies” with several thousand people running helter skelter throughout the town trying to find a “goody” to buy.

We were at this one residence that was having an “estate garage sale”, for lack of a better description, where the “kids” were selling their deceased father’s possessions from the house, outbuildings, etc., and had like 10 to 15 tables stacked full of “goodies” with people elbow to elbow a digging and a scratching to find a “prize” that suited their fancy.

Violet and I were doing likewise when somewhere behind us bout 30 to 40 feet there was this …. “KABOOM” …. that was loud enough to make me “duck for cover” while the gawkers just turned their heads to see what happen. Ya know, like they were at a “turkey shoot” ….. and they were the turkey ….. a “bopping” its head up to get shot at.

Well now, there was this “nosey” 16 or so year old boy, wearing one of those thin nylon jackets, who picked up a “flash” grenade off one of those tables or out of a box on the ground …… and pulled the “pin” ….. and then apparently laid it back down from where he had picked it up. Well now, lucky it didn’t kill him or seriously hurt him ……. but it burned/melted that nylon jacket right off the front of him, etc., etc.   

Betcha he learned not to do that again. Like Violet sometimes says, …. “If you wont listen, ….. then you will just havta feel”.


Couger, as I already mentioned.... no digging was required..... we just removed leaves and debris that covered it..... and then lifted it out of the hole..... sheesh. The rifle grande was the second to last thing that was pulled out. But yes... not knowing what we had brought it home... since then the appropriate actions have been taken.....


Kc.... you and your family do surround me.... :)
Title: Re: Check these out!!!
Post by: mart on March 29, 2014, 05:53:39 AM
I am in Mt Pleasant !!  So about 80 miles or so from Tyler !!  We go there quite often for Hubby`s Dr`s appts !!