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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: frogpatch on May 16, 2014, 10:28:02 AM
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I just got back from a church rummage sale. It was the second day so I was rummaging extra hard. In a box of postcards I found this. I got very excited when I looked through my loop and did not see print dots. I went online to Currier and Ives ID site and it matches all the characteristics of an original. I could not find out if this American National Game of Baseball was ever printed in very small folio, only that this is a rare size. If anyone can help me with the authentication of this and also an approximate value if it is an original I would appreciate it. Here are some details:
Size 5 x 6/38
Image Size 3 1/2 x 5 1/2
Paper is a similar to an old post card. You can see the fluff of the cotton with a loop. The pic is off a bit as to color. The site would not allow me to download a scanned image so I has to use my phone camera.
The black ink has been colored over and has a different pattern the the hues. The color overruns the lines in a few spots. On the far right, the red of one of the hats missed completely. I read this is typical because they were hand colored in a hurry by assembly workers.
It is marked in the left corner "Published by Currier and Ives"
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The game of 1865 and C&I produced in 1866. Love that picture and the other baseball one they have showing the stands.
I know prints are running $8 - $12. Not sure what an original lithograph of this would run...but Etsy has some to compare.
How fun!!!
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I just read that Currier and Ives never made prints in more than one size. Whatever size it was published in was it. The original of this was larger and the last one sold for 45K. That would have been the only size it was published in. Oh well, it is very old and I still love it. Notice that the players do not even wear gloves back then. Both teams were from NY.
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Collectors of baseball memorabilia would love this if in an appropriate frame to year !!
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They sure liked the original large one. It sold for 45K
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They sure liked the original large one. It sold for 45K
They liked this one even better! :D
http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2230/lots/6 (http://www.skinnerinc.com/auctions/2230/lots/6)
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Wow Rauville. Maybe the guy was wrong and they did make a little one. I only paid 50 cents for mine.
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The one in Rauville`s link is slightly over 24X33 with 1 5/8 border !! That's a large one !! Did you look up that top 50 litho`s they mentioned at the bottom ??
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Frogpatch, how about a picture of the back side.
Me thinks you may have found a really good "sleeper". ;D ;D
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Frogpatch, how about a picture of the back side.
Me thinks you may have found a really good "sleeper". ;D ;D
I agree, most likely what you have found is an original C&I period "Trade Card".
http://home.earthlink.net/~printhaus/citrade_cards.htm (http://home.earthlink.net/~printhaus/citrade_cards.htm)
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This is the trade card
http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=9775 (http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=9775)
Frogpatch's resembles the type of reproduction postcards that are often issued in booklets or envelopes. Maye by one of the many companies who reproduced C&I lithographs.
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I'm hopeing to see a "canceled" stamp on the backside of it. ;D ;D ;D
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It is not a postcard it is a hand colored lithograph. Wrong size, wrong printing technique and no place for an address or stamp. The back is blank. I have collected and sold early 20th Century postcards for 30 years. Please trust me on this one. My only question was could it be an original small folio litho which were made in the 19th century. The answer by a C and I expert was "No." That print only came in one size. Thank you all for your help.
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http://blog.robertedwardauctions.com/?p=615
Did you read this Frogpatch ?? A little history !!
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The answer by a C and I expert was "No." That print only came in one size. Thank you all for your help.
The fact is that it exists ....... regardless of what any per se "expert" says ...... and you have possession of it.
You need to take a high resolution scan of it, .... 600 to 1200 dpi, ..... and transmit the image to a dozen or so people who might be interested in offering their opinion and/or acquiring it, ..... especially the Cooperstown Museum.
Just be sure you include how you gained possession of it.
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That is good advice. I have a scanned image but I am not sure of the resolution. I tired to upload the scanned image to this site but it was not an acceptable format. I am going to see if I can change it and upload it here so you and others may have a better look. It also has a striped pattern on the back caused by light hitting it though slats or something for a long time. Thanks
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My scanner creates JPEG images which are high compression low resolution. I can't convert it to a PDF or anything that will load here. The scan, although low resolution, is so mach better than that shaky cell phone shot.
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I can't convert it to a PDF or anything that will load here.
Frogpatch, if the scanned image is on your PC ..... then use your photo prg to view it ..... and then under "file" select ...... "save as" ....... and in the new window there is a "save as type:" selection which you can choose what format you want the copy to be.
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When i said postcard reproduction before i didn't mean that which is necessarily intended for postage.
I could post umpteen examples of postcard sized reproductions of famous works which do not have a square for the stamp.
It may be more than that. I'm just wary of the text on the bottom and the manner in which it fades from left to right.
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Ipcress, when I look at the text through a loop it appears that it is an imprint with identical features as the black in the print prior to coloring. It either did not print correctly leaving some ink missing in the center or it has worn off. Hard to tell and harder to describe. You can clearly see that the piece was first printed in black and the colors were over layed afterwards. My gut feeling is that is an early copy made from the original using similar techniques and possibly a giveaway. I see no sign of it ever being framed. But it will be framed and hanging in my office right beneath my news picture of Casey Stengel, Branch Rickey, Adlai Stevenson and Avril Harriman right before the world series. Thanks
Cogar. I will try again. I opened it in picture manager which has no save as option. Thanks
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Lets see if this format is better. It should appear very close. I was able to convert it to a GIF in the scanner file. Thanks Cogar
Yeah, that is as good as it can be. Color is exact and size is a bit larger. You can see the color going out of the lines on the red hat on the right sideline if you look closely. You can double enlarge it. Imagine playing catcher with no protection including a glove.
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Picture looks great but given its size of .........
Image Size 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 inches
I don't think it was a B&W and then "hand colored" .... but was actually printed in color.
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Under a loop you can clearly see that the printing of the black has a distinctive stone pattern that is different from the colors. If you look at the red hat of the player on the right the color missed his hat and is on his face. These very small folios are documented as being done in the same method as the larger ones. They were both colored on assembly lines. The only snafu is that "they" say that large prints were only done in one size and very small prints were never done in large size. The coloring is so basic that anyone with experience could do it in minutes. It is green wash, gold wash, flesh tone and a few highlights ts of red and blue.
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I will agree with you that the 6 hats and the 1 scarf was hand-painted “red” to denote the members of the team that was “up at bat”.
And we will just hafta agree to disagree on the following.
Given its size of 3 1/2 x 5 1/2 inches I’ll stick with my opinion that it is a “multi-color” print …. except for the above stated “red”.
Me thinks to “paint” all the colors on that picture it would require a “1 bristle” brush and a “full-view” magnifying glass and 2+ hours to complete.
I hardly think that a skilled person could/would precisely “hand paint” all of the different colors on that “print” …… but then severely “mess-up” when they applied the “red”.
The “Devil is in the detail”, ……. see below.