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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: chrisps on June 21, 2014, 06:52:04 AM
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Hi my girlfriends mum has a smoking set she was given a while ago while working as a cleaner for an elderly couple. The smoking set is very pretty comes with a cigarette box, match box holder, ash tray and a small tray to fit it all. It feature various birds and flowers and I am fairly sure one of the birds is a crane. I am not 100% but I think it is Brass but it could be copper, and the marking on the bottom of some of the pieces just says "China". Any help identifying the maker or date of creation for this would be helped.
(http://s3.postimg.org/r5khmuyyb/DSCF0052.jpg)
(http://s3.postimg.org/d0eol1pwz/DSCF0055.jpg)
(http://s3.postimg.org/hwibcqq2b/DSCF0060.jpg)
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http://s13.postimg.org/9diirudba/DSCF0052.jpg
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I had another look over the pieces and on the ash tray I noticed a name but it is hard to read it looks like MB but could be MG, it is to the lower right of the mark in the middle.
(http://s12.postimg.org/cx5nbw2b1/DSCF0062.jpg)
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I'm confused (what's new?). Mart, is the picture your posted the one in question? Original posting doesn't have a photo.
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Hmm, for me I see the three pictures that I uploaded in the original post, and then in my second post I added a fourth picture. Not sure why you wouldn't see them, Did I do something wrong in my post?
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I see the photo of the back of the item. Just not the first 3!
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The url "links" in the 1st post are OK, ..... but the pictures are way to large(18" wide, 13 1/2" high) for this Forum to display them.
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Ahh okay I see, my bad. I have uploaded the pictures again a little scaled down and updated the links in the original post, so hopefully people can see them now.
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That did the "trick". Your 1st post now looks great.
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Yes KC !! I couldn`t see them either !! They are fine now though !! I cannot see the initials you are talking about in last pic !! Usually if its stamped on the bottom for export, its a mass produced item !! May or may not even be decorated in China !! Many things were sold blank and decorated and enameled somewhere else !!
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Yeah I never imagined it to be anything special, but it just seemed a pretty item and I wanted to know anything about it. I have edited the second post where I mentioned the initials. I put a red circle around the name and re-uploaded the image.
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Oh I didn`t mean that !! Just because it was an export item doesn`t mean it isn`t special !! They are quite collectable and can get pricey !! Smoking collectables are pretty hot at the moment !! Hard to tell how old yours might be but my opinion is somewhere between 1930 and 1950 !! It is probably enameled on brass although I wouldn`t try to clean the brass !! Just a damp cloth over all will do !! I think its very pretty !! The crane has some meaning in China so your set may have been done there,,just can`t say for sure !! You can look up the meaning of the crane !!
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Yeah I did research the crane as I always thought it was a Japanese symbol due to origami cranes being so commonplace, but apparently in Chinese culture it is a symbol if Immortality. I couldn't make out what the other bird was though, it has a pink body and legs similar to a Flamingo but it has the green and blue wings and head, with a red part on its chin. It also has a long flowing tail that looks peacock like but a different shape. Anybody know what the bird is or what it is if not a bird?
On another note my dad will be pretty smug, he said it was probably brass since I told him it was pretty heavy for a small set.
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Enameling on brass was pretty common back then !! Let me see what I can find on these sets !!
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Appreciate the help. The other bird I mentioned is placed to the left of the Crane in the second image of my original post, after some research I found it at least bears a resemblance to Fenghuang which are apparently mythological birds that rule over other birds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenghuang).
I did a google image search for Fenghuang bird and a lot of the pictures seem at least similar to the other large bird. Not sure if any of this is helpful but it's interesting to know at least.
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I have looked but have not found much comparable with your set !! Found one that was close and it was listed at $189. !! I think it was pretty overpriced at that !! It was not as pretty as this set and only three pieces,,no tray !! My opinion is that your set would be valued somewhere between $80. and $100. !! The one I found was cloisonné but yours looks like it is just the enameling without the wires !! Still,, that's not a bad price !!
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Okay Mart, thanks a lot for the help, will probably take it to a local antique dealer and see what he says about it too, will post what they tell me in the next few days.
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Chances are a dealer will cut the value in half !! They lowball most things except what they are trying to sell !!
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Here is a 5 piece cloissone smoking set that sold for $350 on liveauctioneers
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11784872_chinese-cloisonn-five-piece-smoking-set (http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11784872_chinese-cloisonn-five-piece-smoking-set)
On here we refer this as being enameled. But generally it is called cloissone. Try searching cloissone smoking set or 5 piece smoking set using cloissone. You will get more results and idea of value! :)
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KC,, I am pretty sure this is not cloisonne !! Just painted and fired !! Yes, cloisonné would be considerably more money !!
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I agree Mart. But they may find another one like theirs in cloisonne. Majority of people categorize it as this and sell it as this instead of enameled.
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Mmmm,, possibly !! Didn`t think about that !!
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Mart, I know it goes against the grain with us to do that. But you have to search it out like majority of people would list it and find one like it. Not suggesting that it be listed as cloisonne when it is enameled.
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That's why two (or several) heads are better than one !! I didn`t even think about that possibility !!
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http://idcloisonne.com/id21.html
On another post Dsky asked about a cloisonné vase and our member, Mat gave this link !! I found it very interesting and think it may help on this set. It also has some enamelware !! Thanks Mat !!