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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: TWD on July 21, 2014, 12:10:35 PM
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I have never seen anything quite like this, and the seller didn't have any history...other than he thought it was more than 200 years old.
There is a lot of circular embossed metal, and it looks like there was possibly leather under the metal, all of it patterned.
There is a mark/stamp on the side of "MCP", and one on the back that is just "MR".
The designs looked Asian, but my Asian friend disagrees?
Terrible repair by seller with all the silver teeth holding the lid together....some people!?
Any ideas?
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What is stamped on the center metal piece on the underside of the lid ?? If you can1t read it,,can you take a close up ??
And what are all those things on the emblem ?? I first thought cannons but can`t tell for sure what they are !! All are similarly carved !!
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After a gazillion hours, I have uncovered enough information to get a little excited!
It's late 15th Century, Italian, Walnut, with Intarsia tinwork (still unsure what the design means)
I have found it's prettier siblings in museums....a little out of my antique furniture, kitchenware, and industrial steampunk stuff!!
I may have to actually hire an appraiser!
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Did it say what this chest was used for ?? Its quite a find whatever it is !!
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Apparently most families in Medieval times kept a chest with all their valuables in it, the wealthier you were...the more ornate your chest was.
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Yes,, that has been common practice in most places !! That could account for the repair !! It is not something that would have been tossed and replaced !!
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The guy we bought it from at the market did the repair...some hot glue, and weird metal hooks. Some total hack job I would do, and would make my husband cringe.
My husband wanted to take it apart and start repairing ASAP, but I wanted to research first!
It may be one of those pieces that you devalue if you repair it....
Strange to think it was made in the late 1400's (unconfirmed, but from all accounts...) before North America was even settled! Amazing!
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I didn`t mean the other stuff,, I meant the metal teeth !! He did those ??
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I didn`t mean the other stuff,, I meant the metal teeth !! He did those ??
I wish they made those darn things illegal.
(http://howiesantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/611-300x225.jpg)
I hate them...and the "fixers" that feel they need to use them on furniture. :'(
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Oh my! I thought they were just out of his junk box (my favorite go-to for my odd creations)...how could he have thought they were ok to use on a piece of furniture! A medieval piece of furniture no less!
Maybe somewhere that you were going to cover with drywall...haha!? My husband would still be horrified to know they were under there, and it would torture him! ;)
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Don`t know if it would be too expensive but you might want to have it restored depending on the value !! There are some that can do an excellent job !! Let me get the link for one that I have looked at his work !! He takes them apart like a jigsaw puzzle and puts them back together !! He might could give you a name for someone close to you that does quality work !!
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I sent all the pics to an appraiser, and hope to get a ballpark figure. Some 16-17th century ones were selling for $5K+...they were way fancier, but this is way older, and the only ones I've seen like this have been in museums! If it would pay off, we would definitely restore it before selling it! If it's worth more than $1500, for sale it goes, anything under, we'll keep and enjoy!
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http://johnmarkpower.blogspot.com/
I like this persons attitude as well as his work !! He is in Harpers Ferry, West VA !! I would not put a huge value on some of the appraisers you find online !! Some are nothing but rip off artists !! Check their credentials well !!
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http://thomasguild.blogspot.com/2012/01/medieval-furniture-from-koln.html
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Mart, thanks for the name of the appraiser...I did read some reviews, and found one that was rated highly for finding you the history and ballpark value. I think that it will come down to whether or not it's worth enough to pay for a restoration and sell it, sell it as-is, and keep is as a wonderful treasure conversation piece. I may need a more detailed one down the road if it turns out to be worth a gazillion dollars! ;)
Jacon4...if you go all the way to the bottom of the Thomas the Builder Blog, you can see my question! No reply so far...
There is that one in the museum in Koln, and another at the MAK museum in Cologne. Oddly enough, I have been to both places, the towns...not museums. I lived in Europe for several years on and of, and, randomly, I must add that the best Flea Market I have ever been to was in East Berlin. I could have spent a month and all my $$ in there...amazing!
Back to the chest, this is the most comprehensive site I could find: http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O133458/chest-unknown/
They all seem to be in Museums....except mine! :/
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well, hard to say if it's period or not with just pic's to go by. One thing caught my eye is the joint in pic # 4, it is cut on a 45 degree angle which would be odd for an english or german chest, this being from Italy, i dunno. Is the case dovetail construction?
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Exposed Dovetail...
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Well, that is consistent with the chest on that blog, i blew up pic of that chest to see if i could tell how it was joined but, pixel distortion was such that i couldn't tell. Is your chest walnut? Another thing that comes to mind is, reproductions, your chest could be period but it is just as likely made in 17th or 18th century, only someone that is familiar with medieval italian chests would know for sure.
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I would wait a bit on your comment to that blog, it's summer and vacation time, if still no answer, i'd phone directly.
Another link on medieval chests
http://larsdatter.com/chests.htm
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I have the first appraisal back, and they confirmed that it was built in the late 1400's in Italy (something about the type of dovetailing and the style of tin-work (Intarsia), and carving of the parallel lines in the lid were done during a very specific time...
Unfortunately, in the shape it's in, probably only worth about $1500! :( That's way more than I paid for it but not enough to sell and renovate my Masterbath! ;) I was really hoping that it would be more like $5K +...it's over 500 years old! Fifty-year old Comics are worth more....lol
I still love & adore it, and my gut feeling of, "I MUST have that", have snagged another cool treasure!
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Unfortunately, in the shape it's in, probably only worth about $1500! Sad That's way more than I paid for it but not enough to sell and renovate my Masterbath! Wink I was really hoping that it would be more like $5K +...it's over 500 years old!
LOL,Yeah, well, even if period, your chest has had a very hard life and just because an object is old, does not mean it has great value. It will probably cost many times it's present value to restore properly which is why it has limited collector appeal. Still, if it is period and thats a BIG if, a museum that specializes in medieval objects would most likely be your best bet if you wanted to sell it.
I know I've said it a million times but it's worth repeating, one can not authenticate old furniture with photo's alone, it takes a hands on in person, under 1000 watts of halogen light, preferably on a pedestal turn table by someone who knows what they are looking at to know for sure.
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Better pictures, with more detail (read: not taken with the IPad, but with the IPhone...perhaps. I should actually bust out a real camera! :)
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Another thing that is interesting is, the punch that made those little star type impressions.
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They also did that to chairs in that period...part of that whole "Intarsia" thing I believe.
It's so grimy except for the interior lid, which is well-preserved compared to the rest of it, but I don't want to clean it too much, but getting the outside a bit damp let's ya see the details. The closer I look at it, the more funky little details I find under the grime and worminess...
Like a treasure hunt!
Like I said, I mostly refinish neglected furniture, collect old kitchen gadgets and tools...this is out of my league!
I also recently found an Art Deco Ice Crusher, a pre-prohibition whiskey crate, and fire torch! If it's old and rusty, or any type of box....I love it!
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Like I said, I mostly refinish neglected furniture, collect old kitchen gadgets and tools...this is out of my league
Agrees, I would put this on the back burner, clean it with turpentine, wash it with soap & water and leave it for another day, whats the rush. If it was clean, you could take better detail pic's and get on the medieval trail of emails to folks who could help with info, places to market it.
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Tell you what, chest has ALOT of worm damage, before i did anything, like bring it in the house, i'd make sure the worms are DEAD!