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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: matali on August 03, 2014, 09:13:26 PM

Title: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 03, 2014, 09:13:26 PM
Hi everyone!

I bought this chair (see images attached) at the moving sale just because I liked it.
The seat is in D-shape (or rather bell shape) and it is nicely profiled (really comfortable).

What kind of wood is it?
How old could it be? Is it worth anything?

Thanks for any information.
matali

Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 04, 2014, 09:51:16 AM
Whats your location? It's a low back windsor chair and this style of chair has been made since the 18th century. This is not a period chair, though it could have been made during 19th century, more likely 20th century i would guess because of the seat & crest rail.

Nice chair even if not period, value? maybe 50-100 bucks. Generally speaking, single chairs are a difficult sell for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 04, 2014, 12:00:14 PM
Thanks!
I am in New Jersey and I got it here.

I asked about this chair because by accident I saw a very similar chair on etsy  (very similar for me) and it is rather expensive:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/173647212/american-windsor-philadelphia-wooden?ref=sr_gallery_17&ga_search_query=wooden+chair&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_ship_to=US&ga_vintage_rewrite=vintage+wooden+chair&ga_original_query=2&ga_orig_facet=vintage&ga_page=3&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery

I don't know anything about antiques and I assume the details are what make the difference.
thanks again
matali




Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 04, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Yeah, your chair could be late 19th century, I like yours better than the one on Etsy but i really doubt they will get anywhere near 3k for a victorian era machine made windsor. Check out this link for what windsors are actually going for at auction

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/search?q=american+windsor+chairs&by_date=2014-08-04T18:26:34.703Z&sort=relevance&dtype=gallery&hasimage=true&type=complete&rows=20
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 04, 2014, 04:04:39 PM
Is surprised others on this forum have not posted on your chair, they should be along in a bit. This era chair is quite a ways out of my field of interest in old furniture but others here might be able to offer more info. I am more a late 17th early 18th century kinda furniture guy so my knowledge base is limited.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 04, 2014, 04:16:52 PM
OK,, so I have been a little busy today Jacon4 !! Doing some fall cleaning !!  I do agree that this chair is late 19th or early 20th century,, and much nicer than the one on etsy !!  Couldn`t get the pic to enlarge to see what kind of wood but that honey color makes me think its maple !!
Might I ask what you gave for this chair ??  I think it might go a bit higher than Jacons estimate,, maybe $150. to $175. !! I can see this chair sitting in front of a nice old desk !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 04, 2014, 10:14:02 PM
I got it for $30 (my very first antique:)

I am attaching a picture in better resolution.

Thanks for all the help.
matali
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 02:07:43 AM
CONGRATS on your first antique! It's a neat chair in pretty good condition, you did well for $30. There is another name for these windsors, "firehouse windsors", popular in fire stations where guys had to sit for long periods waiting on a call. Naturally, they needed comfortable chairs, no doubt!

I found your chair! or very similar form. This is a retail setting, it's from a known dealer and, they are asking $1100. This one still has it's original paint which is kinda a big deal in the antiques world. I think the wood on yours is chestnut.

http://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/seating/armchairs/american-firehouse-armchair-mid-19th-century/id-f_1098224/
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 02:13:10 AM
Here is the chair maybe, i have issues posting pics here
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 05, 2014, 04:57:52 AM
Didn`t think about chestnut,, you are probably right,, we do not have much of that in Texas !!  I couldn`t get the pic to enlarge so couldn`t tell what it was !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: cogar on August 05, 2014, 05:09:16 AM
matali, I'm pretty sure your chair is maple.

And jacon4, American Chestnut and Oak look very similar and hard to tell apart without a "hands on" look see.

One clue is, a Chestnut board is lighter in weight than a comparable sized Oak board is.


Ps, just Google images for "Chestnut wood".
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 05, 2014, 05:21:11 AM
  Morning Cogar !!  Maple is what I said above but now,, not sure,, I am not that familiar with chestnut !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 05:32:03 AM
Nope, is pretty sure seat is Chestnut, dunno about the crest rail, spindles. Chestnut has a rather sad story, it was the dominate hardwood tree in eastern USA till 1900 or so, millions of acre's of them, then a blight came along in 1900 or so and killed almost all of them. It is now on the come back trail with blight resistant trees being planted.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 05:39:28 AM
Revises my estimate of the value of this chair to what Mart said, 150-200. It would be worth double that if it had it's original paint, generally speaking, windsor chairs were made of several different woods (even period 18th century examples) which is why they were always painted.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 05, 2014, 07:53:57 AM
Thanks for the interesting discussion - with the new name (firehouse windsor)  I like it even more!

The chair on the picture is very similar indeed but it looks it is in better condition.
Mine is more "orange" - I am not sure if it is paint or wood.

By the way what I should do with this chair? I mean, I want to keep it but how should I take care of it?

I've also noticed some small holes/tunnels in the seat and I am worrying about termites or other insects.
What do you recommend?

Thanks again,
matali

Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 08:06:57 AM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A, wormy chestnut,  which kinda confirms early 20th century on your chair.

"Wormy Chestnut is not a distinct species of Chestnut, but rather refers to American Chestnut (Castanea dentata) trees that were killed by the chestnut blight of the early 1900s, which were subsequently damaged by insects, leaving holes and discoloration in the standing trees. The trees were then subsequently harvested and converted into lumber."

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/wormy-chestnut/
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 05, 2014, 08:16:07 AM
Sounds possible however the holes on my chair look smaller than the ones on the wormy chestnut images that I googled.

Maybe I should take a closer look at the holes.
Can the holes be of some different origin (other bugs)?

I don't have a good photo of it, I just cropped one of the earlier photos in better resolution (see attached)
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 08:25:17 AM
Well, any wood/tree can be attacked by insects, worms, beetles, usually after they die and have lost their defences against attack. The insect damage is not uniform so you can't go by that. The thing about chestnut though is, within a decade or so, millions of acres of chestnut trees died which was a BONANZA for all kinds of insects.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 08:28:09 AM
looks like wormy chestnut to me, how about other parts of chair other than seat, any insect damage? if not, indicates another species of tree for those parts which is normal for windsors
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 05, 2014, 08:34:20 AM
I have to inspect the chair again, but I think that I saw only the insect damage on the seat. And there were many holes on the edges so I thought maybe someone pinned some cushion to it...

By the way - how should I check if there any insects/egs, etc?
I have never dealt with anything like that in my life and don't want to infest the house.

Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 08:39:55 AM
I have never dealt with anything like that in my life and don't want to infest the house.


Yeah, good idea! Thing is, your chair is now over 100 years old so chances of worms/bugs/beetles still alive is very small, going forward though it's always a good idea to make sure issues like that are addressed before bringing pieces in the house.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 05, 2014, 08:46:38 AM
So how to check it for bugs?
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 05, 2014, 08:46:59 AM
Thanks for the interesting discussion - with the new name (firehouse windsor)  I like it even more!

The chair on the picture is very similar indeed but it looks it is in better condition.
Mine is more "orange" - I am not sure if it is paint or wood.

By the way what I should do with this chair? I mean, I want to keep it but how should I take care of it?

I've also noticed some small holes/tunnels in the seat and I am worrying about termites or other insects.
What do you recommend?

Thanks again,
matali



Have you seen any tiny saw dust flakes around the holes or on the floor ??  If so you can take some Sargeants dog or cat flea and tick spray from the Dollar Store and use it as insecticide !!  The active ingredient is permethrin or pyrethrin depending on if its for a dog or cat !! Pyrethrin is used for cats and is made from chrysanthemums and is certified for organic gardens !! Permethrin is the man- made version of it !! I use it in my vegetable garden and both are safe and it takes very little of it to be effective !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: matali on August 05, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
Thanks for the hint.
I haven't seen any dust yet (but I am keeping it in the shed for now).


Apart from that is there anything I should do with the furniture itself (except dusting)?
How to take care of it?
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 05, 2014, 09:33:49 AM
Not alot really, dust, maybe a once a year cleaning ( depending on use) with damp cloth/murphys oil soap and a light coat of good quality wax and thats it.

ENJOY YOUR CHAIR! It's a survivor.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 05, 2014, 05:15:31 PM
Once you treat it as I said above,, take it inside and use it !!  Follow Jacon4`s instruction !!  Its a nice chair and well worth keeping !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 06, 2014, 03:09:11 AM
Thought I'd try and post a pic of a period low back windsor, this one is C. 1760-1780 made in Philadelphia
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 06, 2014, 03:14:38 AM
Wow, posting pic's on here is getting harder & harder! and taking longer & longer!

In any event, here is dealer's blurb about the chair

"The low-back is one of the earliest and most comfortable of all Windsor furniture. And the Philadelphia chair makers perfected the form, with wide, carved saddle seats and generous arms. Often used as garden furniture, many Windsors, like this example, were originally painted green to blend into the natural setting, then later painted black in the Victorian period."
It sold for $2850. which gives some perspective on what these chairs bring in todays market.
dealer link
http://www.hanesandruskin.com/mp.php?item=1648
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: Rauville on August 06, 2014, 07:22:23 AM
Growing up next to the railroad tracks I spent a lot of time hanging around the depot. I remember the local agent spending much of his time in a similar styled chair with glass insulators on the feet that made it easy to slide around on the hardwood floor.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/7e/e4/0d/7ee40d7501f910504233fb184d9e9ad8.jpg)
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 06, 2014, 07:41:30 AM
Yeah, windsors have been a big hit ever since they hit the furniture world over 200 years ago in the 18th century because they are a very comfortable chair. The fact that they are still being made today speaks volumes about their popularity.
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: mart on August 06, 2014, 08:48:29 AM
Now that's an idea !!
Title: Re: How old is this low back Windsor chair?
Post by: jacon4 on August 06, 2014, 08:52:29 AM
Yeah, instant casters!